A Case Against Tavon Austin

[Barrison]

Don't mean to butt in but it's a good topic and it's raining/sleeting outside. Doesn't mean anyone is right or wrong. Really nows the time to discuss which way do we go since we need to add two WRs.

Tavon Austin and DeAnthony Thomas would be very exciting. :boing:

 

[duckhunter]

4 lb differential but similiar freaks of nature.

 

[-X-]

[tweet]313445976658563072[/tweet]

 

[jap]

[tweet]313445976658563072[/tweet]

Alright, Torry!

 

[jrry32]

I been in the no camp on Tavon Austin from day one. I been saying use Givens in the slot and draft another tall wr w/ wheels. This draft has 1000's of them. Build up the big Uglies on both sides of the line in Rd 1.

I still predict we will end up trading back into Rd 2 from pick 22... Rd 2 has everything the Rams could want for and would start early in the rookie Campaign

IMO, moving Givens to the slot would be a mistake. He's best off on the outside.

Part of my thinking is when Danny Dola was on the sidelines last year Givens took over the Dola role and had a monster game. This is why I say draft a Justin Hunter (or tall wr/ speed) and slide Givens into the slot. The second concern is if we draft another small wr I think the Whiners & Seagulls can Physically dominate us if we have multiple small. Those two defenses are nasty so I rather draft a Justin Hunter later in the draft. At 16 take an OL or DT.

Givens didn't play the slot in that game. He played his normal spot.

I'd rather leave Givens outside, he gave Sherman some problems last year with his speed. Same thing for SF and other teams.

I don't agree that they can physically dominate us. Look at how badly Amendola destroyed San Fran last year. Remember Lloyd against Seattle? He gave their CBs all type of issues.

The weakness for the majority of big CBs is agility and change of direction ability. Sherman and Browner won't be able to cut with a guy like Austin...nor run with him so they better get a great jam on him at the LOS.

 

[jrry32]

I been in the no camp on Tavon Austin from day one. I been saying use Givens in the slot and draft another tall wr w/ wheels. This draft has 1000's of them. Build up the big Uglies on both sides of the line in Rd 1.

I still predict we will end up trading back into Rd 2 from pick 22... Rd 2 has everything the Rams could want for and would start early in the rookie Campaign

IMO, moving Givens to the slot would be a mistake. He's best off on the outside.

Part of my thinking is when Danny Dola was on the sidelines last year Givens took over the Dola role and had a monster game. This is why I say draft a Justin Hunter (or tall wr/ speed) and slide Givens into the slot. The second concern is if we draft another small wr I think the Whiners & Seagulls can Physically dominate us if we have multiple small. Those two defenses are nasty so I rather draft a Justin Hunter later in the draft. At 16 take an OL or DT.

Don't mean to butt in but it's a good topic and it's raining/sleeting outside. Doesn't mean anyone is right or wrong. Really nows the time to discuss which way do we go since we need to add two WRs.

In general, the NFL is so cyclical in thought. They go from viewpoint A: gotta have speed at WR, gotta have speed at WR. Then the defenses match with small speed guys at CB and someone figures out that big guys can push the small speed guys aside and the small guys can't tackle em as well. Oops, the cycle changes to viewpoint B and we gotta have size gotta have size. Defenses match again over a couple of years and some small guys torches the league of tall CBs. Shyte ain't much better than women dress styles changing each year.

I've always tried to take a balanced approach to the pure speed vs big body shielders/high pointers.

I consider Cook a WR since about 75% of his reps are in the slot and 10% are outside the hash marks. I really don't see Cook changing the reps of Mulligan or Kendricks more than 15% in total. Now Shotty may use him somewhat differently but not all that much I would think. If you view Cook as a WR then we have three big WRs and Givens as your lone speed guy.

I also don't think that it's just a coincidence that the guys SB gels best with are the smaller quicker separation WRs: Clayton, Danny, Givens and Lloyd. He occasionally did very well also with the go route high pointing Alexander.

I believe if you have three speed guys with Cook, you will overwhelm the SF and Seatle big CBs. The slowest CB/S gets torched once or twice and they drop in zone. If we have any running game, and we own em since we are playing to SB strength which was deep accuracy.

In closing, there's a couple of reasons why no basketball teams field 5 7-footers on the court. They can't dribble worth a shyte for one.

Well said.

 

[nighttrain]

Yes JAP you are on your game here my old friend! I agree with everything in this above post.

Rams have needs in so many areas:
#1-Slot Receiver
#2-Wide Receiver
#3-Punt Returner
#4-Kick Returner
#5-RB to replace #39

Ok lets see what one pick like Austin might possible fill in that above list?

Punt Returner, Kick Returner, a bonified Slot Receiver, also adds to the backfield RB cadre & adds to the wide out receiving cadre too. So in one very very small package , operational wise works so well to meet the five needs of this Ram team. Ok time to argue against that....

Well, the team's slot WR is probably slot TE Jared Cook. The new kick return rule sorta takes the sting out of that need. The team already has two undersized speed backs. And there are other WRs and punt returners who could be had outside of the 1st round.

Jrry said

The thing is, though, if you're smart...it's not hard to avoid most hits. And the thing about being fast and ridiculously elusive is that most players don't try to light you up. Because they recognize that they could end up looking extremely stupid going for the knockout hit and hurt their team. Ask Barry Sanders.

I want me some Austin, kid can play anywhere, WRer, Slotback, of HB. Maybe a smaller version Faulk, but with the same quickness, but even more speed..
train

 

[LosAngelesRams]

Didn't everyone used to say Jeff Demps was going to be amazing kick return guy, didn’t he return one kick, get smashed on and put in IR? I believe he was the same size as Austin. 5'7 175lbs

 

[A55VA6]

Tavon Austin has like no injury history though. The guy can stay healthy. I'm assuming he can do t in the NFL too.

 

[bluecoconuts]

His size doesn't really bother me. The NFL is pussifying all their rules, so smaller shifty guys like him should be just fine. Goodell is all about getting the offense high powered, so we should get someone who drinks jet fuel and can hit 100MPH if he farts while running. Austin is that type of player.

 

[CGI_Ram]

The thing is, though, if you're smart...it's not hard to avoid most hits. And the thing about being fast and ridiculously elusive is that most players don't try to light you up. Because they recognize that they could end up looking extremely stupid going for the knockout hit and hurt their team. Ask Barry Sanders.

This is a good point. Tavon is sort of hard to hit. He's like a knuckleball.

 

[Faceplant]

Not sure I even feel comfortable comparing Austin to other players of his approximate size. I have simply never seen ANY player with his combination of quickness, top speed and elusiveness... regardless of size. Just think if he had been in horns and had all the touches that went to Dola the last few years. Something tells me that the YPC would have been a LOT higher. Probably at least doubles (or triples) the TD output as well. Just a hunch though......

 

[A55VA6]

Not sure I even feel comfortable comparing Austin to other players of his approximate size. I have simply never seen ANY player with his combination of quickness, top speed and elusiveness... regardless of size. Just think if he had been in horns and had all the touches that went to Dola the last few years. Something tells me that the YPC would have been a LOT higher. Probably at least doubles (or triples) the TD output as well. Just a hunch though......

I agree. His quickness and agility after the catch is unbelievable. I almost want to say I've never seen anything like it. Him in horns is a dream come true. I also think he's compliment our other WR's quite well.

 

[Yamahopper]

Not sure how a case against can be made for a player that in 30 snaps a game will put more points on the board than any other player available will in 70 snaps.

 

[Warner4Prez]

I do feel like WR is a position of need, but also Slot WR is a position of need. The offense was on point when DA was in the game and that's a cog that is now missing. That elusive presence in the middle of the field is something that every team needs/has so why not take a guy that projects to be one of the best in the league.

There might be concerns about his size sure, but there isn't a prospect in the draft that is labeled as a sure thing. Also, not that the draft is a time to gamble, but this team has four 1st round picks in the next year. If you're going to ever roll the dice, now would be the time IMO.

 

[jrry32]

Not sure I even feel comfortable comparing Austin to other players of his approximate size. I have simply never seen ANY player with his combination of quickness, top speed and elusiveness... regardless of size. Just think if he had been in horns and had all the touches that went to Dola the last few years. Something tells me that the YPC would have been a LOT higher. Probably at least doubles (or triples) the TD output as well. Just a hunch though......

I agree. His quickness and agility after the catch is unbelievable. I almost want to say I've never seen anything like it. Him in horns is a dream come true. I also think he's compliment our other WR's quite well.

The only other guys I've seen with 4.3 or better speed that moved like that were Barry Sanders and the Kansas Comet(well the equivalent of a 4.3 40 in his day).

 

[jap]

Not sure I even feel comfortable comparing Austin to other players of his approximate size. I have simply never seen ANY player with his combination of quickness, top speed and elusiveness... regardless of size. Just think if he had been in horns and had all the touches that went to Dola the last few years. Something tells me that the YPC would have been a LOT higher. Probably at least doubles (or triples) the TD output as well. Just a hunch though......

I agree. His quickness and agility after the catch is unbelievable. I almost want to say I've never seen anything like it. Him in horns is a dream come true. I also think he's compliment our other WR's quite well.

The only other guys I've seen with 4.3 or better speed that moved like that were Barry Sanders and the Kansas Comet(well the equivalent of a 4.3 40 in his day).

I don't believe Barry or Gale Sayers ever had 4.3 speed---for one, Eric Dickerson was faster than Barry and, two, OJ was deemed faster than Gale. However, in terms of sheer elusiveness, Barry and Gale are the gold standard. I believe Barry was better in traffic while Gale was the best broken field runner in his prime. Both could cut at 90-degree angles at full speed. I agree that Tavon may be worthy of being named in the same class of elusiveness as Barry and Gale Sayers (aka the Kansas Comet, aka Black Magic). Let's see him do it in the pros. :ww:

 

[jrry32]

Not sure I even feel comfortable comparing Austin to other players of his approximate size. I have simply never seen ANY player with his combination of quickness, top speed and elusiveness... regardless of size. Just think if he had been in horns and had all the touches that went to Dola the last few years. Something tells me that the YPC would have been a LOT higher. Probably at least doubles (or triples) the TD output as well. Just a hunch though......

I agree. His quickness and agility after the catch is unbelievable. I almost want to say I've never seen anything like it. Him in horns is a dream come true. I also think he's compliment our other WR's quite well.

The only other guys I've seen with 4.3 or better speed that moved like that were Barry Sanders and the Kansas Comet(well the equivalent of a 4.3 40 in his day).

I don't believe Barry or Gale Sayers ever had 4.3 speed---for one, Eric Dickerson was faster than Barry and, two, OJ was deemed faster than Gale. However, in terms of sheer elusiveness, Barry and Gale are the gold standard. I believe Barry was better in traffic while Gale was the best broken field runner in his prime. Both could cut at 90-degree angles at full speed. I agree that Tavon may be worthy of being named in the same class of elusiveness as Barry and Gale Sayers (aka the Kansas Comet, aka Black Magic). Let's see him do it in the pros. :ww:

Barry ran a 4.37 40 according to this article:
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/release.aspx?release_id=1206" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/relea ... se_id=1206</a>

ED was scary fast though.

OJ was also scary fast but Gale was seen as a speedster as well back in the day.

Regardless of technicalities, I was just saying that it's extremely rare to find a guy with that sort of combination of speed and elusiveness. Usually a guy has one or the other. It's why I want Tavon so badly.

 

[jap]

Not sure I even feel comfortable comparing Austin to other players of his approximate size. I have simply never seen ANY player with his combination of quickness, top speed and elusiveness... regardless of size. Just think if he had been in horns and had all the touches that went to Dola the last few years. Something tells me that the YPC would have been a LOT higher. Probably at least doubles (or triples) the TD output as well. Just a hunch though......

I agree. His quickness and agility after the catch is unbelievable. I almost want to say I've never seen anything like it. Him in horns is a dream come true. I also think he's compliment our other WR's quite well.

The only other guys I've seen with 4.3 or better speed that moved like that were Barry Sanders and the Kansas Comet(well the equivalent of a 4.3 40 in his day).

I don't believe Barry or Gale Sayers ever had 4.3 speed---for one, Eric Dickerson was faster than Barry and, two, OJ was deemed faster than Gale. However, in terms of sheer elusiveness, Barry and Gale are the gold standard. I believe Barry was better in traffic while Gale was the best broken field runner in his prime. Both could cut at 90-degree angles at full speed. I agree that Tavon may be worthy of being named in the same class of elusiveness as Barry and Gale Sayers (aka the Kansas Comet, aka Black Magic). Let's see him do it in the pros. :ww:

Barry ran a 4.37 40 according to this article:
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/release.aspx?release_id=1206" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/relea ... se_id=1206</a>

ED was scary fast though.

OJ was also scary fast but Gale was seen as a speedster as well back in the day.

Regardless of technicalities, I was just saying that it's extremely rare to find a guy with that sort of combination of speed and elusiveness. Usually a guy has one or the other. It's why I want Tavon so badly.

A55V56 was talking 4.3 speed, and I was responding to that literally, treating 4.3 as 4.30. I know Barry had speed, but I thought it was closer to 4.4 than 4.3. ED was considered the fastest of the top NFL backs of his time. It has been said he ran a 4.3, with no hundredths digit listed. However, he did run a 9.4 100-yard dash at 230 pounds in high school.

Gale was also very speedy for his time, but he did not have near world class speed that some other players (Darrell Green, Dion Sanders, maybe Bo Jackson) did. I have never seen a 40-yard time for Gale. When asked directly once, he joked about running a 3.3. After the laughter from his audience, he said he doesn't believe in 40-yard times because straight-line running rarely occurs in football. He then made a very conservative guess at a running time of 4.7, which drew more laughter from his audience.

However, I agree with you that it is the electric combo of speed plus absurd change-of-direction quickness that really separated these two from everyone else. Barry is more well known to the modern football crowd. What some may not know about Gale is that he had a wide peripheral vision, allowing him to see out of the corner of his eyes much better than most humans. However, probably the freakiest thing about Gale was his ability to put moves on players coming up behind, players he could not possibly see. An awe-struck OJ Simpson exclaimed, "No one in the history of the NFL has ever been able to do that!" Gale said he couldn't see those players, but he could "feel them" and make reactive moves to thwart their tackling attempts.

It's a crying shame that the medical ligament technology of today was non-existant in Gale's time. Many fans today have no idea how great this guy really was. Keep in mind that at Gale's time (1965-1971), only 16 runners had ever gone over 1000 yards in a season. In 1972, the NFL moved the hashmarks closer towards the middle of the field in a move designed to open up the passing game. it actually ended up issuing in the Year of the Run as 10 runners went over 1000 yards in a 14-game season for the very first time. What would Gale's numbers have looked like if that hashmark realignment had occurred before he entered the NFL?

As great as other runners like Jim Brown are regarded, it was Gale Sayers who the NFL voted as the best halfback of its first 50 years. In 68 games, he provided more thrills than anyone else outside possibly Barry, and, unlike Barry, those thrills included PR's, KR's, and receptions with ultra long YAC (e.g., 80 yards).

 

[Faceplant]

However, I agree with you that it is the electric combo of speed plus absurd change-of-direction quickness that really separated these two from everyone else. Barry is more well known to the modern football crowd. What some may not know about Gale is that he had a wide peripheral vision, allowing him to see out of the corner of his eyes much better than most humans. However, probably the freakiest thing about Gale was his ability to put moves on players coming up behind, players he could not possibly see. An awe-struck OJ Simpson exclaimed, "No one in the history of the NFL has ever been able to do that!" Gale said he couldn't see those players, but he could "feel them" and make reactive moves to thwart their tackling attempts.

It's a crying shame that the medical ligament technology of today was non-existant in Gale's time. Many fans today have no idea how great this guy really was. Keep in mind that at Gale's time (1965-1971), only 16 runners had ever gone over 1000 yards in a season. In 1972, the NFL move the hashmarks closer towards the middle of the field in a move designed to open up the passing game. it actually ended up issuing in the Year of the Run as 10 runners went over 1000 yards in a 14-game season. What would Gale's numbers have looked like if that hashmark realignment had occurred before he entered the NFL?

As great as other runners like Jim Brown are regarded, it was Gale Sayers who the NFL voted as the best halfback of its first 50 years. In 68 games, he provided more thrills than anyone else outside possibly Barry, and, unlike Barry, those thrills included PR's, KR's and reception with ultra long YAC (e.g., 80 yards).

Marshall had the same peripheral vision. I still remember him running through the entire Cleveland defense and making guys behind him miss. Incredible.