11 personnel podcast with a very fair assessment on both sides of Goff/Mcvay

[Ram_Rally]

In this whole Goff/Mcvay saga.

Rich: the Rams signed jared to his contract. Jared was Mcvay's GUY. So, you bought it, you own it, you fix it. Rich says that there's no way that you can convince him that a guy like Mcvay couldn't figure out how to use Goff at all. Rich reiterates that Jared did not regress beyond fixing. Especially since Goff's scouting report in college points out the very thing he struggles with (speeds up under pressure, see it, throw it player , who doesn't make reads or adjust). So rich says you can't criticize jared in 2020 for known weaknesses in 2016. Says that the offense scheme failed to highlight his strengths the same way it did in the past. And if all of the things are true (that Jared is who he always was), "then why did you pay him?".

Jourdan:

Mcvay had to readjust his offense because of jared not being able to hit the big throws and turning the ball over. He wants to get back to vertical passing. Mcvay felt he had to change the offense too much for Goff and it still failed due to turnovers etc. Teams thought that the offense under Jared was "easy to defend" when you get jared on down and distance. She specifically mentioned his slow processing and turnovers, with how the turnovers happened at the worst time ever. "this has been in process for two years".

Jourdan adds that contracts don't happen in a vacuum. Some things changed after the deal and jared didn't evolve as expected. "Sean evolved and jared did not. That's nobody's fault but it led to a separation".

And she says that the front office is invested in Mcvay and his evolution. Not any particular player.

 

[Liberator]

So, you bought it, you own it, you fix it.

I don't think this is how you should view it because then you end up wasting two or three years of Donald and Ramsey being the best of the best trying to fix something that may not be fixable.

 

[Ram_Rally]

I don't think this is how you should view it because then you end up wasting two or three years of Donald and Ramsey being the best of the best trying to fix something that may not be fixable.

That was Jourdan's response. I added it above. She says that Mcvay is hyper focused on evolving and staying ahead of competition and jared just didn't evolve like sean expected.

 

[HellRam]

Goffs stregths are his accuracy on intermediate throws. He also throws a nice deep ball.

So where is this talking point coming that the Rams need to change the offense for him. Nevermind the fact he lead them to a elite offense with intermediate/deep throws.

Some of this stuff isn't adding up.

 

[Ram_Rally]

Goffs stregths are his accuracy on intermediate throws. He also throws a nice deep ball.

So where is this talking point coming that the Rams need to change the offense for him. Nevermind the fact he lead them to a elite offense with intermediate/deep throws.

Some of this stuff isn't adding up.

Because this year was his lowest depth of target in his career. Even under Fisher I believe. They clearly changed the offense. They went from a vertical offense to a quick pass, YAC offense.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

In this whole Goff/Mcvay saga.

Rich: the Rams signed jared to his contract. Jared was Mcvay's GUY. So, you bought it, you own it, you fix it. Rich says that there's no way that you can convince him that a guy like Mcvay couldn't figure out how to use Goff at all. Rich reiterates that Jared did not regress beyond fixing. Especially since Goff's scouting report in college points out the very thing he struggles with (speeds up under pressure, see it, throw it player , who doesn't make reads or adjust). So rich says you can't criticize jared in 2020 for known weaknesses in 2016. Says that the offense scheme failed to highlight his strengths the same way it did in the past. And if all of the things are true (that Jared is who he always was), "then why did you pay him?".

Jourdan:

Mcvay had to readjust his offense because of jared not being able to hit the big throws and turning the ball over. He wants to get back to vertical passing. Mcvay felt he had to change the offense too much for Goff and it still failed due to turnovers etc. Teams thought that the offense under Jared was "easy to defend" when you get jared on down and distance. She specifically mentioned his slow processing and turnovers, with how the turnovers happened at the worst time ever. "this has been in process for two years".

Jourdan adds that contracts don't happen in a vacuum. Some things changed after the deal and jared didn't evolve as expected. "Sean evolved and jared did not. That's nobody's fault but it led to a separation".

And she says that the front office is invested in Mcvay and his evolution. Not any particular player.

So that means Sean out grew Jarred and it was time to part ways. It sounds like some of my past relationships.

 

[Ram_Rally]

So that means Sean out grew Jarred and it was time to part ways. It sounds like some of my past relationships.

At least you know when to cut bait. It's a struggle of mine in the past lmao

 

[Flint]

Goffs stregths are his accuracy on intermediate throws. He also throws a nice deep ball.

So where is this talking point coming that the Rams need to change the offense for him. Nevermind the fact he lead them to a elite offense with intermediate/deep throws.

Some of this stuff isn't adding up.

Not only did teams respect the run game in ‘18, they were afraid of it. All it took was one guy to make a mistake and TG was going to the house. Gurley got hurt and Fangio figured out the outside zone and those wide open lanes on play action went away. So now what? Were there guys open in ‘19? 2nd or 3rd options that Goff didn’t get to? I don’t know but we do know that McVay changed the offense this year, shorter throws, higher percentage, although completion percentage was high, scoring wasn’t and turnovers were still an issue. Everyone has to evolve and Jared seems to have a narrow skill set which is kinda surprising, these baseball guys are usually good at throwing from different angles. This team and the scheme got to the super bowl, Brady made enough plays and Goff didn’t. McVay probably felt like he could’ve got there this year with the defense he had but there was one in thing putting doubt in his mind, his qb.

 

[TexasRam]

This type of narrative where broad generalizations of QB are made is nothing new. I could literally give hundreds of examples where Goff had incredible processing speed and multiple reads while in that same week show you so called top QB's that didn't.

How was Wilson's read when he threw the Pick to Williams in the end zone or the one on the sideline?

How was Brady's read when he threw the interception way over the head of his WR right into the hands of Fuller in the biggest moment of the game?

How was Rodgers processing or read when he threw into 2 defenders instead of running the ball into the end zone vs the Bucs?

Generalizations aren't valid arguments.

Kurt Warner had a 5 year span where he threw 29 TD and 30 Interceptions.

Wilson had a 5 game stretch where he was the worst QB in the NFL turnover wise.

The examples are endless.

It's not always the QB, it's often the surrounding cast, injuries, play calling, defenses faced, strength of running game etc.

Goff has his limitations. No one denies that. His vertical pass sucked this year, his mobility is limited.

If you ever played the QB position you know that processing and reads go out the window when a DT is crashing down on you at the snap, but it doesn't just affect that play. It forces quicker processing and limits reads for a QB until he feels he has time to actually have a second in the pocket to go through his progressions.

Goff is simply not a QB that can consistently extend plays when things are constantly breaking down, like Mahomes, Wilson and Rodgers can. But neither could Brady or Manning or Aikman or Marino or Brees or Ryan or many other successful QB's.

It's the job of the coach to understand what kind of QB he has and evolve likewise, not the other way around.

Goff didn't have erratic questionable play in the biggest moment when playoffs came around such as Brady (3 int), Josh Allen, Wilson and Lamar Jackson who scored a total of 0 points when it mattered most.

But no mention of that because, ya know, gotta keep with a narrative here.

 

[Malibu]

In this whole Goff/Mcvay saga.

Rich: the Rams signed jared to his contract. Jared was Mcvay's GUY. So, you bought it, you own it, you fix it. Rich says that there's no way that you can convince him that a guy like Mcvay couldn't figure out how to use Goff at all. Rich reiterates that Jared did not regress beyond fixing. Especially since Goff's scouting report in college points out the very thing he struggles with (speeds up under pressure, see it, throw it player , who doesn't make reads or adjust). So rich says you can't criticize jared in 2020 for known weaknesses in 2016. Says that the offense scheme failed to highlight his strengths the same way it did in the past. And if all of the things are true (that Jared is who he always was), "then why did you pay him?".

Jourdan:

Mcvay had to readjust his offense because of jared not being able to hit the big throws and turning the ball over. He wants to get back to vertical passing. Mcvay felt he had to change the offense too much for Goff and it still failed due to turnovers etc. Teams thought that the offense under Jared was "easy to defend" when you get jared on down and distance. She specifically mentioned his slow processing and turnovers, with how the turnovers happened at the worst time ever. "this has been in process for two years".

Jourdan adds that contracts don't happen in a vacuum. Some things changed after the deal and jared didn't evolve as expected. "Sean evolved and jared did not. That's nobody's fault but it led to a separation".

And she says that the front office is invested in Mcvay and his evolution. Not any particular player.

Jourdan is full of shit. A fucking hack journalist! Things like contracts don't happen in a vacuum. McVay wanted to throw more vertical. Dumb as fuck! You seriously really want to tell me McVay and Snead and the rest of the assts/QB coach didnt watch every practice, every game and have every metric broken down on Goff before they made the contract they did? lazy journalism especially since she works for the Rams. So what MAGICALLY changed?

What changed was Snead/McVay replenished most every area except the OL/speed wr. Goff had NO problem throwing deep all the time prior to '18 season. We lead the league on offense at 32+ ppg 17/18 seasons. This past year we were under 24 ppg why you really think that's Goff fault well it wasn't. When the team offered a huge contract 2 years did you all hear me 2 years early when we didn't need to but McVay/Snead did. They are responsible for the offense decline. They are to blame. They Never replaced Saffold, Whit is old the rest of the OL are terrible in pass pro. The run game was hit or miss, the TEs were non existent hardly. Reynolds never improved. Stupid draft pick in Van Jefferson. He was at best a 3rd wr so why take a 3rd WR in the 2nd. We had to throw short passes all the time, because Goff had no pass pro, he constantly had to roll out or scramble for his life.

That's the truth...Jourdans truth is she should be fired! Weak hack of a reporter. Get a new career because you really suck at this one.

 

[PhillyRam]

So that means Sean out grew Jarred and it was time to part ways. It sounds like some of my past relationships.

Its the..."It's not you... it's me" story.

 

[Mackeyser]

frick it.

Not gonna spend the money for the Athletic... not yet, anyway.

$8/mo seems like a lot wrt content, but maybe I'll change my mind.

 

[Ram_Rally]

Jourdan is full of shit. A fucking hack journalist! Things like contracts don't happen in a vacuum. McVay wanted to throw more vertical. Dumb as fuck! You seriously really want to tell me McVay and Snead and the rest of the assts/QB coach didnt watch every practice, every game and have every metric broken down on Goff before they made the contract they did? lazy journalism especially since she works for the Rams. So what MAGICALLY changed?

What changed was Snead/McVay replenished most every area except the OL/speed wr. Goff had NO problem throwing deep all the time prior to '18 season. We lead the league on offense at 32+ ppg 17/18 seasons. This past year we were under 24 ppg why you really think that's Goff fault well it wasn't. When the team offered a huge contract 2 years did you all hear me 2 years early when we didn't need to but McVay/Snead did. They are responsible for the offense decline. They are to blame. They Never replaced Saffold, Whit is old the rest of the OL are terrible in pass pro. The run game was hit or miss, the TEs were non existent hardly. Reynolds never improved. Stupid draft pick in Van Jefferson. He was at best a 3rd wr so why take a 3rd WR in the 2nd. We had to throw short passes all the time, because Goff had no pass pro, he constantly had to roll out or scramble for his life.

That's the truth...Jourdans truth is she should be fired! Weak hack of a reporter. Get a new career because you really suck at this one.

Jourdan is fantastic so far and she's only reporting what age was told from people in the building

 

[Ram_Rally]

frick it.

Not gonna spend the money for the Athletic... not yet, anyway.

$8/mo seems like a lot wrt content, but maybe I'll change my mind.

It's 1 Dollar per month right now

 

[FarNorth]

Goffs stregths are his accuracy on intermediate throws. He also throws a nice deep ball.

So where is this talking point coming that the Rams need to change the offense for him. Nevermind the fact he lead them to a elite offense with intermediate/deep throws.

Some of this stuff isn't adding up.

It seems to me that since getting mauled by Chicago and New England in late 2018 the Rams' offense has had personnel, scheme, and play calling weaknesses. These include lack of a deep threat and an oline that often yielded pressure up the middle. They also included an increasingly predictable possession offense with ineffective play action.

Goff didn't overcome these limitations but neither did McVay. It was McVay's offense, McVay's personnel, McVay's strategy and play calling, and McVay's quarterback. You can't separate the play of the qb from the play of the offense around him.

 

[Merlin]

I think Cowherd's take was pretty good on all this. That this was about Shanahan coming into LA and beating McVay with a nobody at QB. Those two guys are intense rivals. These teams are intense rivals. His theory that the loss was the one where McVay couldn't take it any more... Yeah I think there's a good chance that was it.

McVay saying that he had to have Stafford and we couldn't let the 9ers have him is another thing he's going to own. If Stafford shits the bed for whatever reason that's gonna be on him. There is a ton of risk for him in this.

 

[Ellard80]

Goffs stregths are his accuracy on intermediate throws. He also throws a nice deep ball.

So where is this talking point coming that the Rams need to change the offense for him. Nevermind the fact he lead them to a elite offense with intermediate/deep throws.

Some of this stuff isn't adding up.

Id say goff has plus accuracy on short passes.

intermediate he is average.

Deep he isnt very good.

Which is why McVay tried to design a short passing game to use that talent.

 

[Ellard80]

This type of narrative where broad generalizations of QB are made is nothing new. I could literally give hundreds of examples where Goff had incredible processing speed and multiple reads while in that same week show you so called top QB's that didn't.

How was Wilson's read when he threw the Pick to Williams in the end zone or the one on the sideline?

How was Brady's read when he threw the interception way over the head of his WR right into the hands of Fuller in the biggest moment of the game?

How was Rodgers processing or read when he threw into 2 defenders instead of running the ball into the end zone vs the Bucs?

Generalizations aren't valid arguments.

Kurt Warner had a 5 year span where he threw 29 TD and 30 Interceptions.

Wilson had a 5 game stretch where he was the worst QB in the NFL turnover wise.

The examples are endless.

It's not always the QB, it's often the surrounding cast, injuries, play calling, defenses faced, strength of running game etc.

Goff has his limitations. No one denies that. His vertical pass sucked this year, his mobility is limited.

If you ever played the QB position you know that processing and reads go out the window when a DT is crashing down on you at the snap, but it doesn't just affect that play. It forces quicker processing and limits reads for a QB until he feels he has time to actually have a second in the pocket to go through his progressions.

Goff is simply not a QB that can consistently extend plays when things are constantly breaking down, like Mahomes, Wilson and Rodgers can. But neither could Brady or Manning or Aikman or Marino or Brees or Ryan or many other successful QB's.

It's the job of the coach to understand what kind of QB he has and evolve likewise, not the other way around.

Goff didn't have erratic questionable play in the biggest moment when playoffs came around such as Brady (3 int), Josh Allen, Wilson and Lamar Jackson who scored a total of 0 points when it mattered most.

But no mention of that because, ya know, gotta keep with a narrative here.

McVay did try to evolve the offense aroudn goff.. it didnt work. He tried to create an offense that Goff could go with his strength - accurate short throws getting it out quick.

We all saw the results this year.

 

[PressureD41]

@Mackeyser I would give the athletic a couple of months. Tons of analytics w/ video clips to support statements. Very in-depth articles by the best journalist in the country.

 

[FarNorth]

I think Cowherd's take was pretty good on all this. That this was about Shanahan coming into LA and beating McVay with a nobody at QB. Those two guys are intense rivals. These teams are intense rivals. His theory that the loss was the one where McVay couldn't take it any more... Yeah I think there's a good chance that was it.

McVay saying that he had to have Stafford and we couldn't let the 9ers have him is another thing he's going to own. If Stafford shits the bed for whatever reason that's gonna be on him. There is a ton of risk for him in this.

And there's no guarantees, although some of our enthusiastic posters may think otherwise.

Rams still badly need an upgrade at center and one or more deep threats. Receivers who can go up and get the ball and then come down with it. Not Reynolds and Everett. The run game has to work well enough to get play action going again, though Akers may solve that if he can stay on the field. The red zone offense needs to be entirely reworked.

But imo McVay also needs to reimagine the offense to work to Stafford's strengths of experience, big arm, and playmaking ability. It's partly better plays, but it's also giving Stafford more latitude in calling the plays and who he throws the ball to. I don't think Stafford will thrive in a micromanaged system, or one with all kinds of elaborate motion, which he apparently dislikes. Running the offense we used with Goff would probably make his head explode.

The good news is that McVay apparently started getting new ideas watching film of Stafford. Hopefully the two of them are working on new approaches over margaritas in Cabo. Hopefully this will morph into something dynamic.