Why Did Belicheat Not Call a Time Out?

[Boffo97]

Common sense isn't proof. They had proof that the Pats videotaped practices. As of now, I've seen no definitive proof that the Pats did anything on purpose. You may subscribe to the "once a cheater, always a cheater" theory but I don't.

If you can somehow think the proof isn't evident in Brady supposedly not being able to feel the difference in a ball, then there's nothing I can say to convince you otherwise. You're still wrong though.

But the overall idea is that I don't look to morals when I watch sports. I'm also not into conspiracy theories. There's 31 other owners and 1000s of other people involved in the NFL. The league doesn't revolve around NE.

No, the overall idea is that cheating makes the game pointless. And one doesn't need conspiracy theories to see that the Patriots are cheating.

And if the other 31 teams are all cheating, let's find out and let's punish them. I don't buy the tax cheat's defense (namely that everyone is cheating on their taxes).

 

[Rambitious1]

I'm totally on board with caring about the taping and etc. But what are we supposed to do - assume now that every possible thing they are accused of is true and take away all of the success they've had?

There has been cheating rampant in every sport forever. I can't imagine how any person who cares this much about the NE situation could ever watch a baseball game.

I agree.
I'm not saying other teams are not cheating. That does not make it right.
But cheating is just wrong. And NE is cheating a LOT more than the other teams.

 

[mike_2133]

If you can somehow think the proof isn't evident in Brady supposedly not being able to feel the difference in a ball, then there's nothing I can say to convince you otherwise. You're still wrong though.


No, the overall idea is that cheating makes the game pointless. And one doesn't need conspiracy theories to see that the Patriots are cheating.

And if the other 31 teams are all cheating, let's find out and let's punish them. I don't buy the tax cheat's defense (namely that everyone is cheating on their taxes).

The thing is - I can't be wrong. Because neither of us know what really happened. I'm not saying there's a 0% chance that the Pats weren't in the wrong here. But until I hear definitive proof, I'm not convinced. I would hope you wouldn't use your line of thinking if you were on a jury.

 

[mike_2133]

I agree.
I'm not saying other teams are not cheating. That does not make it right.
But cheating is just wrong. And NE is cheating a LOT more than the other teams.

Possibly true - but NE has the spotlight on them because A) Spygate and B) they're good. Does anyone really think they wouldn't have won the SBs over CAR, PHI and SEA, if they weren't doing whatever it is they were doing?

 

[Rambitious1]

Possibly true - but NE has the spotlight on them because A) Spygate and B) they're good. Does anyone really think they wouldn't have won the SBs over CAR, PHI and SEA, if they weren't doing whatever it is they were doing?

I have my doubts they would have even been in those Super Bowls to begin with.
This year, I think they would probably have been eliminated by the Ravens had they not been cheating.

We'll just have to disagree

 

[mike_2133]

I have my doubts they would have even been in those Super Bowls to begin with.
This year, I think they would probably have been eliminated by the Ravens had they not been cheating.

We'll just have to disagree

But if the balls were so obviously deflated in the IND game, why was this not noticed in the BAL game or any other game prior?

 

[Mojo Ram]

Where does this mentality come from that says cheating in sports is okay as long as it doesn't change the outcome?
Is it the younger generation? I don't get it.

 

[-X-]

But if the balls were so obviously deflated in the IND game, why was this not noticed in the BAL game or any other game prior?

I care a lot less about this than the people who post here, that's for sure.

Are ya sure?

 

[Stranger]

But if the balls were so obviously deflated in the IND game, why was this not noticed in the BAL game or any other game prior?

great question. better yet, if it was noticed in previous games, why was nothing done about it? That would indicate conspiracy, or utter incompetence.

 

[-X-]

Where does this mentality come from that says cheating in sports is okay as long as it doesn't change the outcome?
Is it the younger generation? I don't get it.

Must be. I used to walk uphill through the snow (both ways) to buy gameboy cartridges from the money I got by mowing lawns.
In the snow.

cuz it was snowing.

 

[mike_2133]

Are ya sure?

Caring to argue and caring that it happened are quite different!

 

[Boffo97]

The thing is - I can't be wrong. Because neither of us know what really happened. I'm not saying there's a 0% chance that the Pats weren't in the wrong here. But until I hear definitive proof, I'm not convinced. I would hope you wouldn't use your line of thinking if you were on a jury.

If I was on a jury, I'd absolutely accept it as self-obvious that Brady knew the balls were deflated.

1. The difference in feel between a properly inflated ball and the balls as under-inflated as they were is obvious by sight and feel to a non-professional.

2. Brady is a professional, and cares deeply about the feel of the balls, as it was he and Peyton Manning who successfully fought for a rule change to let QBs handle the balls prior to a game. (Accepted methods of handling don't include deflating btw.)

3. Brady handled the ball on every offensive snap.

4. Brady didn't bring the matter to the ref's attention.

This leaves no other viable theory than Brady knowing the balls were under-inflated and thus being complicit in what's going on. Belichick, there's SOME argument that maybe he somehow didn't know... but frankly even if he didn't, he SHOULD have known. And the team still deserves punishment.

BTW, where is your requirement of proof when it comes to accusing all 31 other teams of cheating, or accusing fellow fans that they wouldn't care if it was their team winning?

 

[mike_2133]

Where does this mentality come from that says cheating in sports is okay as long as it doesn't change the outcome?
Is it the younger generation? I don't get it.

I just feel that if you apply your moral compass to sports, you probably won't be able to watch anything. Cheating has existed in every sport since the dawn of time. It's part of the game, really. You get caught, you get punished. I'm able to move on from it. Stedman Bailey cheated but I'm happy to have him on this team.

 

[-X-]

Caring to argue and caring that it happened are quite different!

And that the truth.

 

[mike_2133]

If I was on a jury, I'd absolutely accept it as self-obvious that Brady knew the balls were deflated.

1. The difference in feel between a properly inflated ball and the balls as under-inflated as they were is obvious by sight and feel to a non-professional.

2. Brady is a professional, and cares deeply about the feel of the balls, as it was he and Peyton Manning who successfully fought for a rule change to let QBs handle the balls prior to a game. (Accepted methods of handling don't include deflating btw.)

3. Brady handled the ball on every offensive snap.

4. Brady didn't bring the matter to the ref's attention.

This leaves no other viable theory than Brady knowing the balls were under-inflated and thus being complicit in what's going on. Belichick, there's SOME argument that maybe he somehow didn't know... but frankly even if he didn't, he SHOULD have known. And the team still deserves punishment.

BTW, where is your requirement of proof when it comes to accusing all 31 other teams of cheating, or accusing fellow fans that they wouldn't care if it was their team winning?

I don't have proof, it's my opinion. I'm not saying your opinion that Brady did it on purpose or that the Rams have never cheated ever is wrong. I don't know - I wasn't there. I'm saying your absolute defiance that I am wrong is what is wrong.

Isn't it the referee's role - not Brady's - to figure these things out? If the refs count the downs wrong and there's a 5th down - do you think any coach or player on the benefiting side is going to argue? If a player knows he stepped out of bounds on purpose and then makes a tackle - is he supposed to notify the ref?

 

[Boffo97]

I don't have proof, it's my opinion. I'm not saying your opinion that Brady did it on purpose or that the Rams have never cheated ever is wrong. I don't know - I wasn't there. I'm saying your absolute defiance that I am wrong is what is wrong.

Isn't it the referee's role - not Brady's - to figure these things out? If the refs count the downs wrong and there's a 5th down - do you think any coach or player on the benefiting side is going to argue? If a player knows he stepped out of bounds on purpose and then makes a tackle - is he supposed to notify the ref?

So you're arguing that if Brady *just happened* to notice that the balls were deflated and chose not to say anything, then that's okay?

Yeah. No.

 

[mike_2133]

So you're arguing that if Brady *just happened* to notice that the balls were deflated and chose not to say anything, then that's okay?

Yeah. No.

Let's say hypothetically it was known that Brady didn't have anything to do with the footballs being deflated. You really think he is obligated to tell the referee? Every player who grabs a facemask, is offside, etc. who knows a rule is being broken is obligated to tell?

 

[bluecoconuts]

I think cheating is subjective, people who played the game 100 years ago may look at the game now and think that the forward passing, gloves, etc is cheating. Hell look at warfare, it was considered cheating to hide behind trees and ambush enemy soldiers during the revolutionary war, but if you asked someone about it now they wouldn't think so. That doesn't excuse the Patriots for anything they may have done, but it's probably part of why its a bigger deal to some than others.

 

[mike_2133]

I think cheating is subjective, people who played the game 100 years ago may look at the game now and think that the forward passing, gloves, etc is cheating. Hell look at warfare, it was considered cheating to hide behind trees and ambush enemy soldiers during the revolutionary war, but if you asked someone about it now they wouldn't think so. That doesn't excuse the Patriots for anything they may have done, but it's probably part of why its a bigger deal to some than others.

I agree. It's not so cut and dry to me as it is to other people.

 

[thirteen28]

Where does this mentality come from that says cheating in sports is okay as long as it doesn't change the outcome?
Is it the younger generation? I don't get it.

It's culture wide, and it's hardly restricted to the young.

We have politicians and political appointees that don't pay their taxes and when caught, get at most a slap on the wrist. We have a financial sector that made a ton of bad (and shady) bets, and when those bets went bad, they got bailed out. In the NFL, we have a team that was caught red-handed taping other teams signals in violation of the rules, with a significant amount of video evidence destroyed before examination, and with the principals in that scandal getting what amounted to a very light punishment.

Look around you and you can see cheating in many different areas of life, and many cases being high profile. And you see when the cheaters get caught, they either get no punishment or punishment that is very light. People see that and they can do the risk-reward calculus. The message they are receiving from all of this is that cheating promises the potential of big rewards, and if you are caught, the punishment will be light, if you are punished at all. Obviously, this doesn't apply to everybody (try cheating on taxes if you are not part of the political class ... ), but it applies to many. And it's no surprise that when people perceive that the upside of cheating is huge and the downside is minimal, they'll cheat.

Had the Patriots been hammered hard as they should have been with Spygate, with season long suspensions, bannings, vacating of titles, etc., you could bet we wouldn't be having a conversation about Deflategate. But Goodell is Kraft's bitch, and he decided protecting the shield was more important than the integrity of the game, so here we are. And we'll have even another example of where the risk-reward calculation favors cheating over a level playing field.