Why Did Belicheat Not Call a Time Out?

[Boffo97]

Probably, but there wasn't enough proof for me to "convict" in the first place. A lot of players seem to think it's not a big deal, maybe they're all being directed to protect the shield as well, but I'm inclined to think it's not a big deal.

Don't know what else you would have needed. A LOT of QBs have commented both that it would be obvious the balls were that deflated and that Brady would have instantly known.

The only players I've seen saying it wasn't a big deal are the ones pointing to the final score and saying it wouldn't make a difference, and they're missing the point IMO. Whether it's deliberately or not.

 

[Rambitious1]

But if the balls were so obviously deflated in the IND game, why was this not noticed in the BAL game or any other game prior?

Baltimore DID notice it.
They called Indy and gave them a heads up.

And let's be clear, this deflated football thing is just a head fake. Tip of the iceberg.
In other words, it's the most innocuous thing this foul organization has been up to.

 

[bluecoconuts]

Don't know what else you would have needed. A LOT of QBs have commented both that it would be obvious the balls were that deflated and that Brady would have instantly known.

The only players I've seen saying it wasn't a big deal are the ones pointing to the final score and saying it wouldn't make a difference, and they're missing the point IMO. Whether it's deliberately or not.

If its a few ticks maybe not, if there was only one ball that was 2 pounds less, then yeah probably. However the fact they didn't report it doesn't mean much to me, I think there needs to be proof that they actively had a hand in deflating the balls.

 

[Stranger]

And let's be clear, this deflated football thing is just a head fake. Tip of the iceberg.
In other words, it's the most innocuous thing this foul organization has been up to

yes!

 

[Rambitious1]

Where does this mentality come from that says cheating in sports is okay as long as it doesn't change the outcome?
Is it the younger generation? I don't get it.

Yep.
It's really quite sad.

 

[Boffo97]

If its a few ticks maybe not, if there was only one ball that was 2 pounds less, then yeah probably. However the fact they didn't report it doesn't mean much to me, I think there needs to be proof that they actively had a hand in deflating the balls.

If you honestly believe there's any realistic possibility that it was just some rogue ballboy AND that Brady and the rest of the Patriots could have thought it was acceptable to not report, I'm not sure what I can say to you.

I may not be able to prove it (especially since I have no powers to investigate the issue), but it's obvious there was complicity here... and it would be just as obvious if it were the Rams doing it.

 

[Stranger]

Where does this mentality come from that says cheating in sports is okay as long as it doesn't change the outcome?
Is it the younger generation? I don't get it.

Watch a few mins of this BBC documentary .... (from 27m30s - 33m40s)
http://ramsondemand.com/threads/bbc-video-ceaseless-shapeshifting.34646/

 

[bluecoconuts]

If you honestly believe there's any realistic possibility that it was just some rogue ballboy AND that Brady and the rest of the Patriots could have thought it was acceptable to not report, I'm not sure what I can say to you.

I may not be able to prove it (especially since I have no powers to investigate the issue), but it's obvious there was complicity here... and it would be just as obvious if it were the Rams doing it.

I didn't say that, I just said there's not really any proof one way or another. I just don't think that teams would go and tell a ref. I also don't see the huge outrage about the Panthers/Seattle games with deflated balls, nor am I seeing the huge outrage over Atlanta pumping crowd noise, which is worse in my opinion. Is it about the integrity of the game or an excuse to go after the Patriots/Brady again?

 

[Boffo97]

I didn't say that, I just said there's not really any proof one way or another. I just don't think that teams would go and tell a ref. I also don't see the huge outrage about the Panthers/Seattle games with deflated balls, nor am I seeing the huge outrage over Atlanta pumping crowd noise, which is worse in my opinion. Is it about the integrity of the game or an excuse to go after the Patriots/Brady again?

There will probably never be "proof" since you can't prove someone knew something unless you read their minds, but there's common sense that of course Brady knew... and do you really think something like that happens without Belichick knowing it?

I still absolutely disagree that teams wouldn't tell a ref if a ball was THAT deflated. After all, while it's easier to hold on to in inclement weather, it will also be less aerodynamic, so it's something that's only a total benefit if you gameplan around it, and the Patriots did a LOT of short passes in that game. (Something else you won't accept as "proof" but adds to the common sense argument.)

I have not heard about deflated balls with either the Panthers or the Seahawks. And Google draws a blank there.

As to the crowd noise, Atlanta went 6-10 and therefore wasn't using this to win playoff games. Moreover, Arthur Blank has admitted his team was wrong and pledged full cooperation. Robert Kraft has demanded an apology if it can't be proven (and this phrasing was deliberate) they did anything wrong.

It absolutely is about the integrity of the game, and it's only Brady/Belichick's fault that they consistently make themselves targets in this area or that they still have zero Super Bowls that are not tainted by their cheating. Not sure why you're defending these known cheaters.

 

[Stranger]

I didn't say that, I just said there's not really any proof one way or another. I just don't think that teams would go and tell a ref. I also don't see the huge outrage about the Panthers/Seattle games with deflated balls, nor am I seeing the huge outrage over Atlanta pumping crowd noise, which is worse in my opinion. Is it about the integrity of the game or an excuse to go after the Patriots/Brady again?

It's about institutionalized deception, and the Patriots have been the team who have been the most organized the longest in this regard. The attractors are clear for everyone to see.

 

[Prime Time]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...red-timeout-before-final-play-but-we-were-ok/

Bill Belichick considered timeout before final play, but “we were OK”
Posted by Josh Alper on February 4, 2015

AP

The decision the Seahawks made on their final offensive play in the Super Bowl has been analyzed since the moment Malcolm Butler picked off Russell Wilson’s pass, but there hasn’t been quite as much attention paid to what the Patriots were thinking.

When there has been attention in that direction, it has been focused on the team’s choice not to call a timeout as the clock ticked away with the Seahawks on the 1-yard-line. On Tuesday, coach Bill Belichick discussed some of his thought process and started by saying that the one thing they didn’t want the Seahawks to do was run the ball into the end zone. With three wideouts in for Seattle, Belichick said “we couldn’t ask for more than that” in terms of a favorable matchup on that front.

“We certainly gave some consideration to taking a timeout there and leaving some time on the clock. I don’t know if that would have been a bad thing to do. It might have been a good thing to do, but it just seemed in the flow of the game we were OK with where we were,” Belichick said on WEEI. “I think it’s similar to the end of the game in Arizona six years ago when all the TVs and everything get on the field and at the end of the game and then your communication systems that were working OK during the game then breakdown at the end — that was the same thing that happened in [2007].

I thought the signaling and communication by Matt Patricia, the defensive players in order to get those players on and off was really good and we handled that part of it well and then Malcolm [Butler] made a great play on the two under three route. That is pretty much what happened from our end.”

Belichick admitted that there “weren’t happy thoughts” after Jermaine Kearse’s juggling catch set the Seahawks up near the goal line, but the feelings got a lot happier when Butler made his pick. Belichick credited the little-used Butler for “being prepared and playing well” and grouped his play with Duron Harmon’s interception against the Ravens as big plays from unlikely sources that the Patriots needed to win the title.

Now that they have, Belichick said he’s already working on changing the name of his boat from “Five Rings” to “Six Rings” while also making the quick turnaround to 2015 because “last year is over.”

 

[-X-]

Belichick said he’s already working on changing the name of his boat from “Five Rings” to “Six Rings”

 

[Prime Time]

Now that they have, Belichick said he’s already working on changing the name of his boat from “Five Rings” to “Six Rings”

One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
In New England where the Shadows lie.
One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them,
One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them

I got nothing. alm:

 

[bluecoconuts]

As to the crowd noise, Atlanta went 6-10 and therefore wasn't using this to win playoff games. Moreover, Arthur Blank has admitted his team was wrong and pledged full cooperation. Robert Kraft has demanded an apology if it can't be proven (and this phrasing was deliberate) they did anything wrong.

Well Kraft was right, nothing was proven. A team's record when they cheat though should not mean they get a lighter punishment. Pumping crowd noise is pumping crowd noise, it's far worse than a football that's a little deflated. 2 pounds under the minimum isn't like a crazy flat ball, so it's not like it couldn't be thrown well.

 

[Boffo97]

Well Kraft was right, nothing was proven. A team's record when they cheat though should not mean they get a lighter punishment. Pumping crowd noise is pumping crowd noise, it's far worse than a football that's a little deflated. 2 pounds under the minimum isn't like a crazy flat ball, so it's not like it couldn't be thrown well.

I think you're wrong about that. It was proven. The balls were flat, there is no way that Brady didn't notice, and the "rogue ballboy" theory was always transparently stupid. Belichick is in charge of what goes on over there. All of it. You and him not accepting it as proof is not relevant. Sorry. And it does make a major difference. You need to go watch the video where someone was going around on the street with an inflated ball and a deflated ball. Even by sight, the difference was obvious, and the reactions of all but the Patriots fan were "Whoa! It was that bad!" (or somesuch).

And I didn't say the Falcons deserved a lighter punishment. I merely noted that it didn't affect the playoffs. Also, the team doesn't have a prior record of cheating. They should still be punished, but New England's record already sucked for itself. That's why people aren't jumping all over them. There's still faith that with them, the process will work out.

 

[bluecoconuts]

I think you're wrong about that. It was proven. The balls were flat, there is no way that Brady didn't notice, and the "rogue ballboy" theory was always transparently stupid. Belichick is in charge of what goes on over there. All of it. You and him not accepting it as proof is not relevant. Sorry. And it does make a major difference. You need to go watch the video where someone was going around on the street with an inflated ball and a deflated ball. Even by sight, the difference was obvious, and the reactions of all but the Patriots fan were "Whoa! It was that bad!" (or somesuch).

And I didn't say the Falcons deserved a lighter punishment. I merely noted that it didn't affect the playoffs. Also, the team doesn't have a prior record of cheating. They should still be punished, but New England's record already sucked for itself. That's why people aren't jumping all over them. There's still faith that with them, the process will work out.

The problem is some are saying it was 1 ball, some 11. I don't really care about a "rouge ball boy" I just know the Patriots were better in the second half when the balls were normal, so I don't think it had a effect on the game. There's not a lot of fact, but rather a lot of speculation. If it was a scheme, it could have been any number of coaches or players that wanted a deflated ball, to say it was definitely Belichick or Brady. Granted Brady can likely tell the difference, but again its just one of those things. It didn't have a large outcome on the playoffs though.

I'll watch the video though.

 

[Boffo97]

I just know the Patriots were better in the second half when the balls were normal, so I don't think it had a effect on the game.

How many games have you seen where a team gets demoralized at halftime and lets down for the rest of the game? I've seen quite a few. Of course it had an effect on the game.

If it was a scheme, it could have been any number of coaches or players that wanted a deflated ball, to say it was definitely Belichick or Brady.

If it's any coach or player, the Patriots deserve to be punished. And I don't see the Patriots as a place where anything happens without Belichick knowing about it.

Granted Brady can likely tell the difference, but again its just one of those things.

One of those things that destroys the argument that it hasn't been "proven" Brady has blame? Yep.

It didn't have a large outcome on the playoffs though.

Whether it did or not, New England should have been disqualified. If you cheat, you are tacitly admitting that you feel you need to cheat. The only other option is that they were insane.

 

[bluecoconuts]

How many games have you seen where a team gets demoralized at halftime and lets down for the rest of the game's? I've seen quite a few. Of course it had an effect on the game.


If it's any coach or player, the Patriots deserve to be punished. And I don't see the Patriots as a place where anything happens without Belichick knowing about it.


One of those things that destroys the argument that it hasn't been "proven" Brady has blame? Yep.


Whether it did or not, New England should have been disqualified. If you cheat, you are tacitly admitting that you feel you need to cheat. The only other option is that they were insane.

So should teams that have players pop hot be automatically disqualified from the playoffs? Or should they have retroactively given the Colts a Super Bowl berth? I'd say that's a bit overboard for the punishment, and would set a bad precedent.

 

[Boffo97]

So should teams that have players pop hot be automatically disqualified from the playoffs? Or should they have retroactively given the Colts a Super Bowl berth? I'd say that's a bit overboard for the punishment, and would set a bad precedent.

Not sure what you mean by "pop hot"... I assume testing positive for PED's? In that case, no, unless it can be proven that the team was involved in getting him to take them. And here, the individual has plenty of motivation to do so on his own, whereas none of the theories of a lone individual deflating the balls (especially outside of players or coaches) make sense.

But yes, the Patriots should have been disqualified from the game they were caught cheating in (even if they win 200-0). Not overboard, and a great precedent. Draft pick forfeitures and fines aren't going to do a thing to stop New England from cheating because they're still gaining more than they lose. Having that win taken away for cheating will eventually make them stop.

I also would have taken away the previous 3 Super Bowl "wins" when Spygate because they admitted taping defensive signals since 2000.

What has set a bad precedent are the slap on the wrist penalties that New England simply laughs at and carries on business as normal.

 

[Dr C. Hill]

Why even have rules if you are not going to enforce them?

Again, this is now WWE entertainment. That team can do whatever they want, and nobody will ever do anything about it! When the "investigation" is over, they will come out okay, but Atlanta and Cleveland are going to loose some draft picks. I'm not sure Goodell won't award them to New England after he shows up to the draft in a mask and a cape!