Tavon Austin is an interesting player...

[LesBaker]

I think @Rams43 ran out of scotch lol.

The stuff about GZ has been hashed over. He has a few bad misses in his career, all the others are from outside the range of almost anyone other than a few elite guys. He's fine.

Austin needs to have a big year, and I think he will.

 

[RamFan503]

That's in pure yards, when you go by yards per return he drops to 18th and that's with the 75 yard TD. Last year he was very average on returns.

Watch how they punt to him though. There are but a couple returners in the league that force punters to pinpoint like he does. That again is giving our team yards. I also have to wonder how many other returners had as many big plays called back. It does matter.

 

[OldSchool]

Watch how they punt to him though. There are but a couple returners in the league that force punters to pinpoint like he does. That again is giving our team yards. I also have to wonder how many other returners had as many big plays called back. It does matter.

I don't recall any called back last year. Years past yes but not last year. And every punter gets punts sent to him to make it harder to return. Just watch what Hekker does to our opposition.

 

[RamFan503]

Mark my words. Cooper is gonna raise some eyebrows on a formerly WR pathetic corps.

And I agree with this. But how many times was TA even lined up in the slot. 18 times I believe it was. TA is not a slot receiver. Cooper is not replacing him - he is complimenting him.

 

[Mojo Ram]

Why name a thread this...

Tavon Austin is an interesting player...

and type this in your first sentence....

Might be the most overrated player on the team.

Just reads kind of like the intention is to stir the pot.



Anyway, is anyone on the Rams' offensive roster really overrated? By whom? By the media? No.
By some of us fans? Sure. That's what makes us fans. Maybe if we changed his position designation to RB/PR some fans would be happier. 8.3 avg/rush on 52 attempts with 4 TD's playing behind Gurley. I'll take that.
Tavon's numbers have gotten better each year and he's still only 25 yrs old. I'll take that too.

Not a fan of Zuerlein. I've beaten that horse.

 

[Loyal]

And I agree with this. But how many times was TA even lined up in the slot. 18 times I believe it was. TA is not a slot receiver. Cooper is not replacing him - he is complimenting him.

HOMER!:homercrawl:

 

[RamFan503]

I don't recall any called back last year. Years past yes but not last year. And every punter gets punts sent to him to make it harder to return. Just watch what Hekker does to our opposition.

I believe he had two long returns and one long offensive play called back last year. Not TDs this time but called back none the less.

As far as kicking away from a returner, of course a punter is going to do what will flip the field as much as possible. If it is a slower, less shifty returner, he will give it distance knowing that the 8 or 10 yards every time won't hurt his team and instead can be made up with kicking distance over placement. But in a case like TA, Peterson (more earlier in his career), Lockett, and one or two others, the punter will put more air under the ball or concentrate on angling toward the sideline far more than applying distance. What that means is that returners like TA often get the ball after greater hang time so the defense is already on top of him when he receives the punt or he has the sideline to help the defense limit his options. Either way, the punts limit his yards after the catch unlike many that get the automatic yards after longer punts. The stats don't give you hang time or place on the field so these guys getting the automatic yards and averaging a yard or maybe two more rank ahead of TA but it would be wrong to say that they are indeed better returners.

BTW - Hekker was voted to the Probowl for a reason and it damn sure wasn't our standing as a playoff caliber team. He is probably the best punter in the league. Most punters couldn't dream of doing what he is able to do in combining accuracy AND power.

 

[RamFan503]

HOMER!:homercrawl:

 

[RamFan503]

Oh and the Rams were second in the league in punt returns in 2014. That would have been TA - no? Does nobody believe that coaches realize that and changed the way they dealt him the ball? We dropped to 21st last year. I wonder why. Oh wait. No I don't.

 

[Angry Ram]

Sometimes perception is very different from reality.

My perception is the majority of the threads you start are the very definition of over-analyzing things.

 

[Loyal]

Watching Cooper and Austin on the field at the same time, RamFan503 enjoys the Niner azz kicking on Monday Night Football....

 

[RamFan503]

Watching Cooper and Austin on the field at the same time, RamFan503 enjoys the Niner azz kicking on Monday Night Football....

Except that I wear boxer briefs.

 

[OldSchool]

Oh and the Rams were second in the league in punt returns in 2014. That would have been TA - no? Does nobody believe that coaches realize that and changed the way they dealt him the ball? We dropped to 21st last year. I wonder why. Oh wait. No I don't.

As I said earlier every team tries to prevent the other team from getting big returns with kicking the ball so that it's harder to return or to not even let them return. I wonder why. Oh wait. No I don't.

 

[RamFan503]

As I said earlier every team tries to prevent the other team from getting big returns with kicking the ball so that it's harder to return or to not even let them return. I wonder why. Oh wait. No I don't.

Not so. Many punters kick the ball for distance against returners. That doesn't make it harder to return. It is a trade off of yards for the benefit of field position and a potential return TD. The more dangerous the returner, the more attention is paid to making the return more difficult. In turn, many inferior returners show up as having higher averages because they have space to run when they get the ball. It's talked about all the time with certain returners - not at all with others.

Just saying that a punter's job is to make returning punts more difficult is saying that punters do absolutely nothing different no matter who is back returning. I just can't see your logic.

I'm not saying that TA deserves to be #1 on the returners list. But saying he is the 18th best returner based on average return yards just isn't accurate outside of anything but pure stats.

 

[Roman Snow]

Check out these punt return stats, Roman.

http://www.footballdb.com/stats/stats.html?mode=PR

Tavon was ranked 13th last year.

Sometimes perception is very different from reality. Tavon is such a case.

Thanks for attaching the data "43". Here is what I think: the idea of the punt return ITSELF, for the most part, is overrated. Setting aside the couple outliers, each of those players averaged 7-12 yards a return. A FIVE yard difference.

Now, "every yard counts" certainly in football, but if our guy catches a punt on the 16-yard line and returns it to the 24, as is Tavons average for returned punts, or returns it to the 28, per the average of return "champion" Darren Sproles, it is hardly a huge momentum shift.

Look at the data you submitted, 43. Really study it. First of all, the rankings are based on TOTAL return yards. That gives a leg up to the guys who's defenses force a lot of punts. Certainly no credit to them. I also disagree with ranking punters based on total yards punted, for similar reasons. When did they start ranking like that, anyway?

I disagree with that merit system. Just like some of the modern QBR ranking systems, and the baseball emphasis on OBS, etc. the punt, and punt return should measure the true value to the team: movement of field position. In the case of the returner, I propose a merit matrix that considers:

• Total "punt decisions." Removing any punts that sail out of bounds, award the punt returner for decisions, such as:
• "proper fair catches", made when tacklers are surrounding the returner, as the punted ball arrives, and letting the ball bounce would result in significant negative yardage to his team.
• "Wise declines," when the returner lets the ball go, usually because it has a good chance to roll into the end zone for a touchback.
• "Ball security". Does the returner make solid choices, calling for clear fair catches when appropriate, and tucking the ball away?
• "Big plays" Obviously, taking one to the house is the ultimate big play for a punt returner. But a 20+ yard return can really ignite a team. Where was the list of those plays?
• For example: consider two prospective punt return stat lines, which would you rather have: Player A: 12, 9,10,8,10,11,13,10,8,9. Or Player B: 3,7,-2,5, 34,9,5,7,2,26. Player A average 10.0. Player B average 8.6. But I will take player B all day long because his two "big runs" were huge plays for his team in the field position game. None of the other returns for either player significantly helped, or hurt their team.- I propose a "big play" emphasis in the rankings. Perhaps the Big Play stat can be similar to Fantasy League stats, but with the intention or really registering true value. A momentum boosting run of over 20 yards can receive 1 point, over 40 yards 2 points and a touchdown 6.
• Yardage can be calculated proportionally to account for about 1/3 of the total matrix.
• If A "hero" punt returner fields a punt on the 2 yard line rather than let it go into the end zone, and returns it 14 yards to the 16. Pretty good average, huh? Where is that statistic registered? -it should be a -4 net field position statistical penalty. Perhaps even a -1 equivalent from the big play statistic.

Just some random thoughts in regard to punt returns. Tavon returned one of only twelve TDs last year, according to the stats posted. His decision making is generally solid. He is an asset to the Rams in punt returns, and has (5?) That have been called back over the years.

I can't think of anyone I would rather have back there than Tavon Austin.

 

[OldSchool]

I'm not saying that TA deserves to be #1 on the returners list. But saying he is the 18th best returner based on average return yards just isn't accurate outside of anything but pure stats.

Never said he was 18th best, said he was 18th in YPR which makes him average based on that stat alone.

Here ya go for your efforts!

 

[six2stack]

TA is a Wing Back and a dang good one at that. If he's utilized correctly, he'll have 15+ TD's in 2016

 

[StealYoGurley]

As to Cooper? We'll see. Too early to call just yet.

But I like him as a PR and WR better than Austin already. Better hands, better route breaks, better knowledge of playbook, better knowledge of what the O play is designed to do, taller, bigger catch radius...

Cant have it both ways. Cant says it too early to call but already say he has better knowledge of the playbook and where is supposed to go. I don't know how you could know that based off of OTA reports. Being a rookie WR is notoriously hard position to adapt to, and you mean to tell me he is more advanced than a guy with 3 years experience in the league after a few non contact practices? Come on

The one thing the rams offense did well was run the ball and alot of that success came from the motion and movement of Tavon opening up things for Gurley. Cooper doesn't have the speed or ability to create that type of threat. Because of that speed around the edge put Tavon on any team and you have to account for him period. That talent is god given and not many in the league have it. Cooper may be better at other things but he doesn't have the talent that makes defenses lock in on him especially just walking into the league.

 

[RamFan503]

Never said he was 18th best, said he was 18th in YPR which makes him average based on that stat alone.

And that makes it useless. The one stat doesn't make him average.

BTW - he was tied for 16th in 2015 (couldn't get more average - eh?) But of course he placed 5th in 2014 so..... oh wait - that doesn't mean anything either.

@Roman Snow put it in clearer terms but that one stat is meaningless unless you look at how the player changes a game, the game plan, how many games he changes, etc... Saying TA is an average returner because of his average yards per return is simply a lazy argument.

 

[tempests]

I wouldn't say he's overrated. He's capable of more and probably hasn't had his true breakout season yet.

Austin is a better PR than he was his first couple seasons. His indecisiveness was maddening and he fumbled too much. But he's seeing the field better now and making better decisions. Still room for improvement.