Tavon Austin is an interesting player...

[LACHAMP46]

Myself? I'd prefer to just line up and call running plays for Gurley and pass plays for a #1 type WR all game long.

Me too...I like the simple things in life...

Now you and @OldSchool should change your names....
Rams43-Hater
OldSchool-hater

that last one sounds cool...

 

[Athos]

Then turn him over to an OC that publicly said he hadn't figured out how to use him? Dang!

You just dug your own grave of ignorance with this statement. And people around here will back me up over how much I loathed the Tavon trade, but given the state of this team now and the QB it now has, he's a very good piece of the team.

NOT the best trade that S&F have pulled off, IMO.

And it's absolutely so where near the worst. Fuck, it isn't even a bad trade really at all.


Be a fan of hindsight or not, the fact is, that draft was, in many ways, kind of shitty all around. That's indisputable.

Dion Jordan? Awful.
Mingo? Mediocre at best.
Cooper? Fail
Milliner? Mediocre
Manuel? Total fail
Patterson? lmao
Werner? Meh
Williams? Meh


When you look at it, Tavon was/is one of the best playmakers and scoring threats from that draft not named a true RB by name and skill. Sure you had Kelce and Reed as TE, but no one clearly thought they'd be what they are now given they both went 3rd round. Hell, Austin has as many receiving TDs as Zach Ertz and I know people loved some Ertz and Ertz had more stability from the QB position. Hell, you have to drop down to pick 63 in Travis Kelce to find a pass catcher with more TDs caught, sans Nuke and Eifert from a loaded O, in their career up to this point. And Kelce only has 10.


Not saying Tavon isn't a disappointing WR, he is. But it's garbage to say he's overrated. By who? Fans? That doesn't count in my metric of overrated. Everyone always harps on his shitty routes and hands during games, dude. Just how dangerous he is with the ball in hand.

But yes. Team would be well served with a true #1. That's true of every team.

 

[VegasRam]

They short kicked Austin all last season. Any returner who buys you 10+ yards on the punt from fear is worth his weight in gold.

RF - sorry, your avatar disqualifies you fro participating in this thread.:rolllaugh:

OT - Tavon Austin is the most exciting player the Rams have had since the GSOT.

 

[Rams43]

You just dug your own grave of ignorance with this statement. And people around here will back me up over how much I loathed the Tavon trade, but given the state of this team now and the QB it now has, he's a very good piece of the team.



And it's absolutely so where near the worst. freak, it isn't even a bad trade really at all.


Be a fan of hindsight or not, the fact is, that draft was, in many ways, kind of crappy all around. That's indisputable.

Dion Jordan? Awful.
Mingo? Mediocre at best.
Cooper? Fail
Milliner? Mediocre
Manuel? Total fail
Patterson? lmao
Werner? Meh
Williams? Meh


When you look at it, Tavon was/is one of the best playmakers and scoring threats from that draft not named a true RB by name and skill. Sure you had Kelce and Reed as TE, but no one clearly thought they'd be what they are now given they both went 3rd round. Hell, Austin has as many receiving TDs as Zach Ertz and I know people loved some Ertz and Ertz had more stability from the QB position. Hell, you have to drop down to pick 63 in Travis Kelce to find a pass catcher with more TDs caught, sans Nuke and Eifert from a loaded O, in their career up to this point. And Kelce only has 10.


Not saying Tavon isn't a disappointing WR, he is. But it's garbage to say he's overrated. By who? Fans? That doesn't count in my metric of overrated. Everyone always harps on his crappy routes and hands during games, dude. Just how dangerous he is with the ball in hand.

But yes. Team would be well served with a true #1. That's true of every team.

No need for F bombs, Athos.

And "grave of ignorance"? Really?

I get that you have a different opinion than I do. Message received.

One last time...

I don't HATE Austin or the pick.
I don't HATE the trade up, even.

I still think that Austin is overrated by some Ram fans.

Clearly, some other posters disagree, which is cool.

This still IS a board where discussions about differing opinions are not only allowed, but encouraged, isn't it? I mean, without F bombs or rancor?

Or have I wandered into the wrong place?

 

[VegasRam]

No need for F bombs, Athos.

And "grave of ignorance"? Really?

I get that you have a different opinion than I do. Message received.

One last time...

I don't HATE Austin or the pick.
I don't HATE the trade up, even.

I still think that Austin is overrated by some Ram fans.

Clearly, some other posters disagree, which is cool.

This still IS a board where discussions about differing opinions are not only allowed, but encouraged, isn't it? I mean, without F bombs or rancor?

Or have I wandered into the wrong place?

Hear hear. You're in the right place.

'Course, your opinion totally sucks!:boxing:

I guess maybe it's a head and/or heart thing. As much as I HATE the 'gadget guy' reference, he's scary at enough different things to justify his draft position/cost. As a WR, I pretty much concur with his "average" label, but that's just not where his value lies. He's the only guy (imo) that gives the bubble screen (a play I hate), any chance at all of working, with his moves and acceleration, and that grab and resultant KO return TD against the Colts is something you just don't see players do, and the the fact that he's capable of incredible plays like that....dunno' - just love the guy. Mark me down as one of the 'Overraters'.

 

[Roman Snow]

[/QUOTE]

:shocking::burp: That looks delicious and all....but could I get someone to come top off my ice water?

:rant:Yeah, and maybe some ketchup?!

 

[Athos]

If your point is he's overrated by some fans, why make a thread complaining about fans overrating him? I don't even think this team has been good enough to warrant any of these guys sans Donald of even trying to make a point of being overrated.

Austin has always been a 50/50 extreme split among fans.

Either not good enough as a WR to justify anything or good enough at everything to justify.

Seems silly to rehash the exact same topic that's gone on since his drafting.

So again... Why? About the only point of merit made was that Fisher is overrated as a coach.

And look.

I love Cooper. But he has nowhere near the athletic ability that makes Tavon a player that can actually work on any O. He's more of a traditional slot WR.

 

[RamzFanz]

I do think many are overrating him as a PR. I chalk it up to homerism. He's average there, okay? OldSchool and I are right, I think. If not, where are his Pro Bowl trophies? Or Pro Bowl votes? Or even top 10 status?

I would like to see how many uncatchable, touchback, and short punts teams used against TA compared to the punt return leaders.

@OldSchool is saying all good punt returners get the short kicks and out of bound kicks but that doesn't pass the eye test at all for me. I don't recall the Rams doing that to any returner all season, the Rams actually had the longest punts in the NFL, which one might attribute to bad field position, except they also had the most stick inside the opponent's 20. We tied for 10th in number of returns we allowed, so, not kicking short or OOB. Sure, we would kick away from a good returner, but not surrender yards kicking TBs, OOB, or short because we were confident we could stop the return.

On the other hand, teams we played were not confident they could stop TA despite his 17th place punt return average:

• Rams had only 15 fair catches, tied for 8th fewest. I believe that is mostly due to short punts, TBs and OOB punts.
  
• Rams were also tied at 10th for fewest average punt yards to them. One of the most punted to teams, 7th, has top 10 least average yards punted to them.
  
• Rams had the most punt touchbacks in the NFL. 30% more than the next team and twice the average team. You aren't giving away 20 yards at twice the norm if you aren't scared.

To me it's pretty clear TA deserves the PR respect other teams showed him. All these short kicks also mean their gunners are more likely to be on him when he does recover, but he's often well up field already. These are hidden yards he created.

I do think many are overrating him as a PR. I chalk it up to homerism. He's average there, okay? OldSchool and I are right, I think. If not, where are his Pro Bowl trophies? Or Pro Bowl votes? Or even top 10 status?

Pro bowl? Come on man, the Pro Bowl is a popularity and highlight real competition. You can't return what you can't catch. You also don't get as many pro bowl votes on a bad team. TA produced 200 yards, 100 more than average, in TBs alone and who knows how many in short punts and OOB punts, but it's a lot.

He's clearly overrated as a WR. Nine TD's in 3 years? Just 1133 receiving yards in 3 years total? C'mon...

I agree he's not an effective receiver in this system and with the talent around him. I wouldn't agree that he couldn't be a star in a real air attack. I hope we see that this season.

The point of TA though isn't receiving yards because our QBs sucked. His YAC was 8th best in the NFL for receivers with 50 or more receptions. You can't just dismiss that.

Oh, and yes, 9 TDs in 3 years...with 5 coming last season in the worst passing attack in the NFL, IIRC. Clearly, he's getting more effective in the passing game even without talent around him. Gurley affect? Adding talent frees up TA from being smothered?

As a "gimmick" or "gadget" RB he has been effective. Then again, the coaching staff has had to design plays especially for him to accomplish that.

And? That schemes and plays aren't designed for your talented players? 8.3 YPC last season (and career), which is by far the most in the NFL from any player with 50 or more carries. At least give the kid his due, he's not effective, he's the best rotational rusher in the NFL.

I don't think he reads D's all that well to this day. It's taken 3 OC's to begin to figure out how to use him. His hands are suspect. Size. Catch radius. Strength...

I don't know where the reading Ds comment came from. Sounds like you're just looking for things to say about him.

It's his fault he's in a new scheme every season and with really poor scheming? That his OCs couldn't see what he did best?

I agree about hands, size, catch radius, and strength. He's not a deep threat and if the Rams would stop trying to force him to be, his weaknesses wouldn't be emphasized so often. He's elusive, not a power player, and he uses his talents well. There are a lot of successful players with the same attributes.

One last thing. I recommend that we keep our eye on Cooper. As Fisher himself has said, this kid could become a household name for us.

Me too. And if Cooper excels, TA's distraction is going to be a big part of it. Cooper's not going to have to experience what TA did being the only real threat on a team, lucky kid, he's got TA, Britt, and Gurley to keep the heat off.

Might be fun to revisit this topic in November and again in January as we prepare for the playoffs.

Yeah, this will either be a fun or disappointing topic in November. I'm betting on fun and that it won't take past mid season before you're TA gushing.

 

[Faceplant]

Not so. Many punters kick the ball for distance against returners. That doesn't make it harder to return. It is a trade off of yards for the benefit of field position and a potential return TD. The more dangerous the returner, the more attention is paid to making the return more difficult. In turn, many inferior returners show up as having higher averages because they have space to run when they get the ball. It's talked about all the time with certain returners - not at all with others.

This is entirely correct. Tavon haters are gonna look like they ate a grapefruit after brushing their teeth next year...

 

[Faceplant]

If A "hero" punt returner fields a punt on the 2 yard line rather than let it go into the end zone, and returns it 14 yards to the 16. Pretty good average, huh? Where is that statistic registered? -it should be a -4 net field position statistical penalty. Perhaps even a -1 equivalent from the big play statistic.

Another brilliant post sir. But I will add to this that our Tavon can make THAT particular play a brilliant one. I submit to you this PR. Name another player than could pull this off. I DARE ya!!!

 

[Rams43]

If your point is he's overrated by some fans, why make a thread complaining about fans overrating him? I don't even think this team has been good enough to warrant any of these guys sans Donald of even trying to make a point of being overrated.

Austin has always been a 50/50 extreme split among fans.

Either not good enough as a WR to justify anything or good enough at everything to justify.

Seems silly to rehash the exact same topic that's gone on since his drafting.

So again... Why? About the only point of merit made was that Fisher is overrated as a coach.

And look.

I love Cooper. But he has nowhere near the athletic ability that makes Tavon a player that can actually work on any O. He's more of a traditional slot WR.

I just wanted to get that off my chest, Athos.

I never dreamed that it would spark such vigorous discussion. Vigorous discussions are in short supply as we wind down the pre camp doldrums.

We apparently do agree that Fisher is overrated.

As to Cooper? I've got a really good feeling about how he will fit into this Goff/Boras/ Groh Offense this year. Higbee too, for that matter.

It will all start to reveal itself starting next week.

 

[OldSchool]

Got it Tavon is the only one who teams tried to punt away from in the NFL.

I think I'm done with this topic enjoy yourselves guys. I've made my claim that he was mediocre last year in punt return but clearly he should have been a pro bowler I'm so very wrong.

 

[OldSchool]

Another brilliant post sir. But I will add to this that our Tavon can make THAT particular play a brilliant one. I submit to you this PR. Name another player than could pull this off. I DARE ya!!!

Piece of cake! You couldn't have made this easier this is the exact same situation just a longer return for a TD.



I believe we say game, set and match.

 

[Legatron4]

Piece of cake! You couldn't have made this easier this is the exact same situation just a longer return for a TD.



I believe we say game, set and match.

Cmon man. My dead grandma could have ran that back. Tavon made the whole defense whiff.

 

[jrry32]

I do think many are overrating him as a PR. I chalk it up to homerism. He's average there, okay? OldSchool and I are right, I think. If not, where are his Pro Bowl trophies? Or Pro Bowl votes? Or even top 10 status?

http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/p...-jenkins-tavon-austin-are-pro-bowl-alternates

Personally, I think judging a guy by Pro Bowl appearances is nuts. But there's your answer.

P.S. Why do you think this play worked:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyh45Sy-BgQ


Why would the entire Seahawks special teams be so focused on the average punt returner?

Here are his stats, once again... http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/15786/tavon-austin

Nobody cares. We watch him every week. We all have the capability of googling his stats. This doesn't tell us anything. This is the same bad analysis that we get from sports journalists. They make everything about the numbers and offer nothing substantive. This isn't fantasy football. The NFL is more than a game of numbers.

I remember like yesterday telling people this after Ndamukong Suh's rookie year. People were proclaiming him as the next Reggie White. They were claiming he was already the best DT in the NFL. When I questioned that, they threw numbers at me. When I pointed out Suh's over-aggressiveness, lack of discipline, and issues stopping the run, they threw numbers at me. When I told them that Suh might grow to be one of the best DTs in the game but would need to become more disciplined which would cause his sack numbers to drop a bit, they threw numbers at me.

Why does that matter? Because numbers don't tell the story. Here's a great example:

View: http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000549742/Rams-Todd-Gurley-runs-for-52-yards


What do the numbers tell you? Todd Gurley: 1 rush for 52 yards.

What don't the numbers tell you? Tavon Austin froze the LDE and drew the Mike and Will LBs out of position by faking an end-around. That's what gave Gurley a monster running lane to hit as he hit the second level.

That doesn't go down on the box score for Austin, but you better bet that helps the Rams win a football game. Don't understate a player's value by ignoring what he makes defenses do when the ball isn't in his hands.

 

[CGI_Ram]

Where Tavon was picked means nothing to me.

His impact to others (end-arounds as an example) doesn't hit the stat sheet.

Tavon is part of the solution. He's a top 10 player on this roster. What are we talking about, exactly?

 

[tavian]

Where Tavon was picked means nothing to me.

His impact to others (end-arounds as an example) doesn't hit the stat sheet.

Tavon is part of the solution. He's a top 10 player on this roster. What are we talking about, exactly?

CG I wish you would just shut your mouth!!
(not really, everybody seems to be yelling in here.I'm just trying to fit in.How am I doing?:argue::grouphug
By the way.. this..."Tavon is part of the solution."

 

[CGI_Ram]

CG I wish you would just shut your mouth!!
(not really, everybody seems to be yelling in here.I'm just trying to fit in.How am I doing?:argue::grouphug
By the way.. this..."Tavon is part of the solution."

Tavian...

Haha! JK

 

[RamzFanz]

Got it Tavon is the only one who teams tried to punt away from in the NFL.

I think I'm done with this topic enjoy yourselves guys. I've made my claim that he was mediocre last year in punt return but clearly he should have been a pro bowler I'm so very wrong.

And, as always, threw out the insult and made no point to counter other observations.

Thanks for playing, your opinion has been registered.

 

[RamzFanz]

Piece of cake! You couldn't have made this easier this is the exact same situation just a longer return for a TD.



I believe we say game, set and match.

Except one was awareness, the other was awareness with actions to make it happen. TA didn't just scoop up a ball others were making assumptions about, he introduced those assumptions, he created an assumption where there was none, in the minds of the defense, because he told them through his legal actions there was no return, rather than just taking advantage of mistake. He CAUSED the mistakes.

TA's return was twice that of RB's.

So much for not game aware.