- Joined
- Jun 3, 2014
- Messages
- 5,342
I guess, if you live in a vacuum.If you thought Fisher and the crew were doing great at these points then you must think they are pretty good at their jobs.
I guess, if you live in a vacuum.If you thought Fisher and the crew were doing great at these points then you must think they are pretty good at their jobs.
Stan spoke (yes he spoke) about wanting more of a NEespue approach to building a team. Though the results have clearly not been there, the methodology is getting there.
Mike Shanahan was doing great when he got the Redskins in to the playoffs, a year later (including an injury riddled season) he was firedIf you thought Fisher and the crew were doing great at these points then you must think they are pretty good at their jobs.
Yeah, I'll pass on this "top priority." Unless he's really cheap."Highlights: McLeod leads this group as he has risen through the ranks from key special-teams contributor to starting free safety. Although he's still prone to costly mistakes, McLeod has developed into a solid starter on the back end and is one of the team's top priorities to re-sign this offseason."
And of the 32 coaches in the NFL and those available for next season, where would you rank him? Who would you rank above him and say they could get us to a Superbowl without getting lucky? I honestly look at the coaches out there and put Fish in the top ten regardless. And while that doesn't say that he WILL get us to the Superbowl, it does say that he needs probably a little less luck than most.
I'm guessing Coughlin will probably get let go if they don't win that hapless division.
He'd be interesting... but I think he's just too old.
The rest aren't going anywhere as best I can tell.
Always liked Lovie...
Chicago -
2004: 5-11
2005: 11-5 (playoffs)
2006: 13-3 (playoffs)
2007: 7-9
2008: 9-7
2009: 7-9
2010: 11-5 (playoffs)
2011: 8-8
2012: 10-6
81-63 (.563).
What we wouldn't give for a record like that!
Now, in Tampa, it looks like he's doing it again.
2014: 2-14
2015: 6-6
Heck, he even gave his old friend , Martz, a job.
There are some HCs that have a track record of taking a down and out franchise and improving it fairly quickly, getting them into the playoffs in a couple of years.Agreed, just was trying to rank those ahead...and wasn't sure if it was "those available" or "current head coaches"....
I realize it is tough to really judge....no two coaches ever have the exact same situation. No one really knows how JF would have done up in GB with Rodgers or how Bilacheat would have done here over the last 4 yrs...that is why I tend to rate higher the guys that have changed philosophies to stay at the top and those that seem to balance both sides of the ball....I tend to think it helps prevent some of the ups and downs....
There are some HCs that have a track record of taking a down and out franchise and improving it fairly quickly, getting them into the playoffs in a couple of years.
Parcells was one
Fox seems to be another
Look what Harbaugh did at Michigan in his first year
We'll see how this year turns out, but Lovie might be on that list if things continue to improve
Maybe we can find the next guy who can do this...
I'm guessing Coughlin will probably get let go if they don't win that hapless division.
He'd be interesting... but I think he's just too old.
The rest aren't going anywhere as best I can tell.
Always liked Lovie...
Chicago -
2004: 5-11
2005: 11-5 (playoffs)
2006: 13-3 (playoffs)
2007: 7-9
2008: 9-7
2009: 7-9
2010: 11-5 (playoffs)
2011: 8-8
2012: 10-6
81-63 (.563).
What we wouldn't give for a record like that!
Now, in Tampa, it looks like he's doing it again.
2014: 2-14
2015: 6-6
Heck, he even gave his old friend , Martz, a job.
I'd agree that it isn't working as well - that's pretty clear. I will say that belly cheat lucked into Brady and already had a Probowl QB in Drew Bledsoe when he got there. Flip a coin and you still have a franchise QB to lead your team. And you are not seriously going to compare the team that the hoodie inherited to the team that Fish inherited are you?I think you'd agree that a large part of New England's success is due to how well Bellichick performs his duties.
He's been given immense control and he's proven he knows how to build/maintain a successful team.
If Kroenke is using that model, it seems clear to me that Jeff Fisher is nowhere near as good as Bellichik.
So, the model isn't working very well right now.
I would disagree with Gruden, Payton (yes Payton), Tomlin, Lewis, and Reid. I am going by what I see as what the coaches have to work with when they get to a franchise and other circumstances. I'm not saying you have to agree. It's just my opinion. I would however put Rivera in the conversation. But even your list has Fish arguably at 14 and probably only two to four of the coaches you listed will be looking for a job after the season. And only two of the possibly availables have actually won a SB.Every coach needs some luck to get to a SB...it is more a question of who needs the least luck.
Guys I put ahead of JF (based upon all coaches - not just those available...wasn't sure by your phrasing), in no particular order:
Bilacheat - yes has Brady, but got 11 wins with Cassell, has modified his game based upon what he has instead of building in one shape...
Lewis - develops to long term plan, question if he can get to SB...but ahead of JF cause he gets to playoffs something JF hasn't done in LONG time
Arians - seems to get guys to play hard, does well in adversity (weird situations and heavy injuries), both sides of ball are developed
john Haurbaugh - been there won it, been deep in PO many times, team is down now...but been high for long time
Fox - builds well, hasn't won it but been there 2 times....works with what he has (made playoffs with Teebow), focus on both sides of ball
Reid - never won the big one, but wins lots....doesn't have JFs ups and downs...heck look at Chiefs this year.....lost best players, and on a run...
McCarthy - above JF cause he has done it, yes blessed with QBs, but to stay on top that long is impressive (remember not getting the draft picks to rebuild)
Payton- focus's more on O, but been there won it, has eye for talent
Coughlin - 2 SBs with Eli.....really...not a great regular season guy, but darn a post season monster
tomlin - won it, always competitive...shown willingness to change styles
Carroll - hate him, but builds D just as well...and somehow gets by with that meager O - has to be ahead of JF cause to often we say he is building like Seattle...
j. Gruden - burdened with a lack of talent (lack of recent draft picks) and saddled with a problem QB and bad Oline has the team competing....
can also argue Ryan, Rivera, and Lovie....Zimmer is also moving up
One thing though about the "New England way of doing things", Im not sure if it started with Belechick, I think it started with Kraft/Parcells.Stan spoke (yes he spoke) about wanting more of a NEespue approach to building a team. Though the results have clearly not been there, the methodology is getting there. So while Fish has gone 7 wins, 7 wins, 6 wins, ? - not only is the product nowhere near as bad (speaks volumes for how bad we were IMO) but Fish was directly hired by Stan and the way he and Snead are trying to build the team is in keeping with not only what Stan said he wanted, but also in keeping with how he runs things. I'm sure that if Fish loses the team or the team fails to perform in the final year of his contract, Stan will look to make changes. And even then he probably won't look to blow the whole thing up. Instead, he will likely charge KD and Snead with the job of finding a new HC.
The more realistic reason Fisher could stay: He is owed about $7 million on the final year of his deal and Kroenke might not want to pay him to not coach the team.
I'll bet all my cows if we make a change it's gonna be for
Josh McDaniels 2.0
I would disagree with Gruden, Payton (yes Payton), Tomlin, Lewis, and Reid. I am going by what I see as what the coaches have to work with when they get to a franchise and other circumstances. I'm not saying you have to agree. It's just my opinion. I would however put Rivera in the conversation. But even your list has Fish arguably at 14 and probably only two to four of the coaches you listed will be looking for a job after the season. And only two of the possibly availables have actually won a SB.
So given that, I would say no to Payton and Coughlin. I think Payton is the definition of a coach that had everything fall into place, and Coughlin will not be able to start over with this team. My guess is that Coughlin is cut loose by NY, he will retire anyway.
Except that Carroll was not let go because of record. He was let go due to conflict of theory - at least according to an interview of Kraft.One thing though about the "New England way of doing things", Im not sure if it started with Belechick, I think it started with Kraft/Parcells.
Point being, Pete Carroll coached 3 years, 2 winning seasons but his record got progessively worse each year.
So following the methodology, if Carroll was let go, certainly Fisher's resume would be suspect.