Shaun Hill Assessment

[RamzFanz]

FWIW, RamzFanz, I'm in general agreement with your assessment.

Nice post, man.

I thought it was an offseason coup to sign Hill.

We shall see if he can be effective in these remaining 7 games.

Thanks. Me too. The excitement about Hill before the season started was well founded IMHO. Now we get another chance to see if we were right.

 

[DR RAM]

I think Hill has decent movement skills, he always has, problem is, he's older now, and more prone to injury. Hill has an average arm, and is more decisive with his throws. I saw no problem with Hill's willingness to make downfield throws. What I saw with Hill is an experienced, scrappy QB, with an arm able to make most throws, and pretty good anticipation to make those throws.

I believe in, Hill.

 

[RamzFanz]

Why? TC means nothing at this point. Neither do pre-season games with kids trying to make rosters. It's impossible to evaluate a QB who hasn't played a full game, hasn't had to adjust to the opposing team's adjustments, and hasn't made is healthy through a game, or taken hits courtesy of Long/Wells/Joseph.

I don't think his long half of football is any better than the great halves/quarters Davis has had. In fact, they aren't even nearly as good. Which is the point.

I see a QB who is 34, hasn't played a full game in 3 years, and suffered an injury I don't even know how he suffered. Durability is a concern. Mobility with this o-line is a concern. Playing against 2 premiere edge-rushers is a concern. Nothing Hill has done since being a Lion excites me and why should it?

I'm not asking if you have an opinion on Hill really, I already now you do and the sample size is way too small, just what you thought of his play time that first half. Was he mobile? Did he throw well? Did he make good decisions? Did he defuse the pass rush?

 

[RamzFanz]

One thing I noticed about Hill is he seems to be able to make that back shoulder throw that a lot of QBs throw these days.

I also expect him to target Britt more. From the little I saw of him in preseason, he did seem to favor Britt.

Yeah, in FF I would elevate Britt to sleeper status if Hill can stay healthy. I have him and I'm making him a game time decision. Problem is Denver's pass rush is mighty and the Rams' O line is not. If it were any other team this season, I'd start him. Even if Hill is good at defusing the pass rush and using his hot routes, Denver is going to cause problems.

 

[Cygnus]

If Hill is the guy who can win with the stout defense that has shown up of late to keep us in games and Jeff Fisher keeps him sitting on the bench while first year starter Davis continues to unravel with the game on the line, well....

Shame on Jeff!

 

[RamFan503]

Short answer - I don't need to look back at the tape of the one half. He has been named our starter so I will hope he lights it up.

You are asking us to assess one half of a game and extrapolate - I dunno - how great Hill is as a starter? I am not going to go back and watch that game. Not because I don't want to see what you are talking about, but because I have wiped that mess from my mind and am not going there. I also don't think you can determine squat from one half of football. I lauded the move to pick up Hill in the off season. Why? Because I thought he was a solid BACK-UP. I still view him as such.

But don't be surprised if people aren't getting jacked up at the thought of Hill coming in to save the day. I think we all want that and hope that Hill plays better than what we saw out of Davis of late. Hill will likely be at the helm when we get some wins. But our toughest defensive challenges are behind us. I would expect that we see some Ws out of the rest of the schedule regardless. And yes, at this point, Hill may get us those better than Davis. That would be great.

Now - I think you are being a little unrealistic in suggesting that a thread like this does not become a Davis/Hill debate. You have been beating the Hill drum incessantly for some time now. You started this thread and had to know your prior posting of late would follow it to some extent. Don't play the martyr card on this as no one is piling on you personally.

 

[Athos]

I'm not asking if you have an opinion on Hill really, I already now you do and the sample size is way too small, just what you thought of his play time that first half. Was he mobile? Did he throw well? Did he make good decisions? Did he defuse the pass rush?

He made good reads, yes, from what I can remember. Mobile? Can't remember enough. Do remember the sack. Do remember pulling up gimpy with a leg injury I still don't get how he got other than not being in shape enough. In a small vacuum sample, sure he looked good. But again, a first half with a badly placed ball into double coverage to turn what should have been a 0-6 game was truly awful.

So, I don't think you can label a 1st half of play as a Rams starter in a real game an assessment of anything. It's a drop in a pool and doesn't move the needle of hope in any direction. I operate on what I have. And that's no complete starts since 2011, pulling up gimpy on a mysterious leg injury, and throwing a horrid INT.

 

[RamFan503]

 

[RamzFanz]

Short answer - I don't need to look back at the tape of the one half. He has been named our starter so I will hope he lights it up.

You are asking us to assess one half of a game and extrapolate - I dunno - how great Hill is as a starter? I am not going to go back and watch that game. Not because I don't want to see what you are talking about, but because I have wiped that mess from my mind and am not going there. I also don't think you can determine squat from one half of football. I lauded the move to pick up Hill in the off season. Why? Because I thought he was a solid BACK-UP. I still view him as such.

But just because people aren't getting jacked up at the thought of Hill coming in to save the day. I think we all want that and hope that Hill plays better than what we saw out of Davis of late. Hill will likely be at the helm when we get some wins. But our toughest defensive challenges are behind us. I would expect that we see some Ws out of the rest of the schedule regardless. And yes, at this point, Hill may get us those better than Davis. That would be great.

Now - I think you are being a little unrealistic in suggesting that a thread like this does not become a Davis/Hill debate. You have been beating the Hill drum incessantly for some time now. You started this thread and had to know your prior posting of late would follow it to some extent. Don't play the martyr card on this as no one is piling on you personally.

I'm not asking you to extrapolate, just what you thought of that half. If you won't watch, then never mind. Why even comment?

Yes, I have been wanting Hill since the decision to bench him was made and have not jumped on the Davis bandwagon while still enthusiastically acknowledging when he played well. Is there anyone on this board that isn't aware of that?

You know, I'd really appreciate if BS terms like martyr and the assigning motives could be reserved for RamStalk. I would like to discuss Hill without the bandwagoners attacking. Thanks.

 

[Thordaddy]

Dude, did you go watch him again? Are you saying he wasn't mobile? Is this just a harrass RamzFanz reply or are you going to assess his actual play vs the assumptions?

I have already evaluated Davis many times in other threads and found him wanting. Now I'm trying to talk about Hill.

Can I talk about Hill without being accused of alternative motives or am I upsetting the bandwagon again?

I'm saying when he goes "mobile" he pulls muscles cuz he isn't in nearly as good shape as Davis, his physique reminds me of a guy who spent the off season expecting to be a backup, I've been every age either of these guys have been and was into athletics and trained diligently . Age takes a toll ,I'll give you that Hill has experience Davis has youth, Hill has a better arm and is more accurate, Davis has fire and the hunger of a man who wants a career where Hill has accepted long ago a fate of being a backup.
Where was Davis when Fisher found him? studying for the game , was Hill there with him? No , he had to call Fisher back.

I said Hill won't be here next year and I firmly believe that, Davis may be if he still wants to. I think Davis will be back in there sooner than later but hesitate to say why because once you say things you root for them to happen.


I have made my assessment of the two and find it to be a push, and Hill has ONLY lost the one half he has played . For me the experience we are giving Davis now can be an asset for the future , and I don't think our record would or will be any better with Hill so my position is to stick with the kid let him grow BECAUSE I don't think the change is going to salvage the season , Hill may win a game Davis won't and vice versa.
I hope we rip off 7 straight wins Hill wins comeback player of the year we beat the Cardinals in the NFC Championship Game beat the Broncos for a second time in the Super Bowl and Pizza Hut buys out Papa Johns and hires Hill to do commercials.

As far as AM I harassing you ? No, I'm responding , let me ask you this, don't you think if you had been Hill and Fisher jerked the rug out from under you , you might hold some animosity ? I think you might , he may even be thinking "oh yeah NOW you want me in there ,I'm supposed to save your season NOW? " further 'I had the shot at having my own team ,I get hurt and am willing to keep playing and you put this kid in there and he does OK and then you give him my job even though you promised you wouldn't" . No he won't say those things that would be highly impolitic, but I'll bet it's crossed his mind .
Fish hates QB controversy, but man has he proven to be adept at creating one

 

[Cygnus]

Hey flv!

Thought I'd take yours and others advice to come by check out ROD!

So far so good!

 

[RamzFanz]

He made good reads, yes, from what I can remember. Mobile? Can't remember enough. Do remember the sack. Do remember pulling up gimpy with a leg injury I still don't get how he got other than not being in shape enough. In a small vacuum sample, sure he looked good. But again, a first half with a badly placed ball into double coverage to turn what should have been a 0-6 game was truly awful.

So, I don't think you can label a 1st half of play as a Rams starter in a real game an assessment of anything. It's a drop in a pool and doesn't move the needle of hope in any direction. I operate on what I have. And that's no complete starts since 2011, pulling up gimpy on a mysterious leg injury, and throwing a horrid INT.

Yep. He might be out of shape. I hope not. That would be pretty stupid for him to do and even stupider of Fisher to allow it. He IS getting paid to be ready.

You really should re-watch if you get the chance. It's pretty interesting if you focus solely on his playing. It's hard to say he's mobile because he so rarely had to scramble. When he did, he avoided the pressure every time. Mostly, he moved in the pocket and made fast decisions. As @CoachO pointed out, he drops back and throws. He doesn't hang around often and when he did, he moved in the pocket to buy time.

The score was 0-6 when he threw the INT. But, if you watch, I think you'd agree, that wasn't his fault. It could have easily been 17 - 6 if GZ doesn't miss. Hill had some very solid drives killed by other players.

 

[Thordaddy]

I'm not asking you to extrapolate, just what you thought of that half. If you won't watch, then never mind. Why even comment?

Yes, I have been wanting Hill since the decision to bench him was made and have not jumped on the Davis bandwagon while still enthusiastically acknowledging when he played well. Is there anyone on this board that isn't aware of that?

You know, I'd really appreciate if BS terms like martyr and the assigning motives could be reserved for RamStalk. I would like to discuss Hill without the bandwagoners attacking. Thanks.

You don't think "bandwagoners" is a pejorative ???????????????????????????????????????????????????

 

[Rmfnlt]

I think it's unfair to expect too much from Hill Sunday for two reasons:
1] He hasn't played a full game since January 2, 2011 (the 2010 season's last game)
2] He hasn't practiced with the first stringers all season

I think there's bound to be some misfires/miscommunication/confusion between Hill and the rest of the offensive players.

Not a knock on Hill, just that he's coming in pretty cold.

 

[LesBaker]

I would like to discuss his single half of play to see if you see what I do. Please don't make this a Hill vs Davis, those threads exist. Thank you.

I went back and watched Hill play and, even as a Hill fan from TC I have to say, he's better than I remembered.

-People who say he isn't mobile need to go watch him. With a pass rush in his face most of the game he only took 1 sack and that was because a blind side DE came up from behind him and knocked the ball free which he fell on and saved. This is the play where I believe he was injured as his shoulder was jammed back on the hit and he threw only one more time. Other than that, he moved in the pocket and delivered time after time. He scrambled out of the pocket and extended plays a couple of times but, with his play, that's all he needed to. After he left the game, there were four more sacks which I believe is a testament to his ability to avoid pressure.

-If my assessment is correct, he threw one bad pass and that was the interception immediately after the play where he was probably injured. I forgot how many sweet throws he made that were called back by penalty, dropped passes, or where the player didn't go past the first down marker. Of the other incompletes, one was an 8 man blitz that collapsed the line and he overthrew the receiver deep by 5 yards but the defender drew a flag. It looked to me like either the receiver couldn't get to his spot or Hill was throwing away the ball without drawing the intentional grounding. However, it could have just been that he overthrew the receiver from the pressure. The second was a pass to no one deep that appeared to be a missed route by the receiver. The third was the interception that was a circus catch interception. Some say he was throwing the ball away but either way, it's on him.

-Hill hit his hot route every time he needed to and there was a receiver open. He didn't miss once. Every hot route pass that wasn't complete was the receiver dropping a pass directly to them.


Now that the penalties have subsided and the receivers are catching better, I could see Hill having a monster game. Dude has an ARM. His short passes have zing when needed and touch where needed and were dead on right where the receiver needed the ball to be.

He threw with anticipation and hit receivers in stride. He went through his reads and kept his eyes downfield.

His long bombs were deep and accurate other than the ones I mentioned.

What impressed me most was his presence. Completely calm. Moving in the pocket. Setting his feet and delivering. Defeating pressure with dump off passes or scrambling.

I think the Rams, other than their O line, are far better than they have appeared and Hill is going to be able to exploit that. If you go back and remove the penalties and dropped passes he would have been dominating the Vikings. Now throw in the Rams' D that is finally living up to their talent and I can't help but believe this is going to be a hell of a game and that the rest of the season, at the very least, is going to be exciting with more wins than not.

What say you?

Good work.

I think Hill is a really good backup and if you recall I said that there wasn't any significant drop off with him stepping in for Bradford based on what they have done over their careers.

The fact is that he may or may not give the Rams more chances for wins, and I know that's the name of the game, we will see and of course as a fan I will ALWAYS want the Rams to win. I wish Davis had been given the full opportunity of the balance of the season but I don't make that decision.

So as of now its GO HILL.

 

[RamzFanz]

You don't think "bandwagoners" is a pejorative ???????????????????????????????????????????????????

Oh yes, it is. I've tried to be polite and asked you many times to leave the Hill / Davis for next week or other threads then 503 decided to jump in with his "I'm not re-watching or commenting on the OP but you're playing the martyr" comment. So yes, I'm going with "bandwagoners". I calculated that is as harsh as I can get against bandwagoners without getting the customary private message.

Please Thor and 503, I'd like to discuss Hill's performance with others that have watched it and evaluated it. Thanks.

 

[RamzFanz]

Good work.

I think Hill is a really good backup and if you recall I said that there wasn't any significant drop off with him stepping in for Bradford based on what they have done over their careers.

The fact is that he may or may not give the Rams more chances for wins, and I know that's the name of the game, we will see and of course as a fan I will ALWAYS want the Rams to win. I wish Davis had been given the full opportunity of the balance of the season but I don't make that decision.

So as of now its GO HILL.

As far as Hill, it's not that he's the best QB around, but I think he has the particular skill set we need. Based on what I saw, he can diffuse the pass rush which is going to be huge against Denver, throw the long ball which is going to be needed for a win against Denver, and, hopefully, open up the running game if Denver gets burned long. We'll see though. Lots of question marks.

 

[blue4]

Yep. He might be out of shape. I hope not. That would be pretty stupid for him to do and even stupider of Fisher to allow it. He IS getting paid to be ready.

You really should re-watch if you get the chance. It's pretty interesting if you focus solely on his playing. It's hard to say he's mobile because he so rarely had to scramble. When he did, he avoided the pressure every time. Mostly, he moved in the pocket and made fast decisions. As @CoachO pointed out, he drops back and throws. He doesn't hang around often and when he did, he moved in the pocket to buy time.

The score was 0-6 when he threw the INT. But, if you watch, I think you'd agree, that wasn't his fault. It could have easily been 17 - 6 if GZ doesn't miss. Hill had some very solid drives killed by other players.

I watched the game. The interception was his fault. He either threw a bad pass into coverage or he didn't put enough on it to throw it away. That's the only "big play" he made. My assessment of his 1 entire half is that he did ok until making a huge mistake. He moved ok, he threw ok, seemed to have charge of the huddle. What he did in TC or preseason doesn't mean anything to me. I don't have any preference or agenda in that assessment either. My only wish is that one of the 3 QB on this roster (Hill Davis Keenum) play well enough to provide insurance for Bradford or another vet so we can avoid a desperation pick in a weak QB draft. Hopefully Hill starts that this week.

 

[RamzFanz]

I watched the game. The interception was his fault. He either threw a bad pass into coverage or he didn't put enough on it to throw it away. That's the only "big play" he made. My assessment of his 1 entire half is that he did ok until making a huge mistake. He moved ok, he threw ok, seemed to have charge of the huddle. What he did in TC or preseason doesn't mean anything to me. I don't have any preference or agenda in that assessment either. My only wish is that one of the 3 QB on this roster (Hill Davis Keenum) play well enough to provide insurance for Bradford or another vet so we can avoid a desperation pick in a weak QB draft. Hopefully Hill starts that this week.

I agree it was his fault. It seems to me, since that was the play after his only sack where the injury seems to have come from, he might not have been aware that his throwing wasn't going to have the normal power. Or maybe he just screwed up and threw it into double coverage.

Before that though, I disagree that he didn't make big plays if that's what you are saying. He had several and several more lost to penalties or drops. By big plays I mean plays where his actions created the opportunity and he delivered on the mark.

Have you re-watched or are you going off memory? I re-watched because I wanted to see what he had it's been so long and I was surprised.