Sean Mannion

[Dxmissile]

You're kind of proving his point, especially if you aren't taking the time to really understand the differences of the two which are many.

Mannion is a stone statue in the pocket. Much like Foles. And not like Brady. Slow processing speed. Slow feet. Moves like cement in his shoes. Slow release.

Goff has the touch pass. He has the accuracy on anticipation routes. He has very good feet which is an absolute necessity for long term QB success. Processes well. Had a godawful OL and still put up very good #s with skill players that won't sniff the NFL.

Mannion dont have the best feet but he is far from being a stone statue in the pocket. The only thing im trying to figure out is it only the foorwork that makes a difference because when it come to arm talent they are equal or Mannion is a little better imo.

 

[DaveFan'51]

Is this thread for real???? Where is the blue font?

" Someone forgot to change the cartridge in the Printer!!"

 

[Athos]

Mannion dont have the best feet but he is far from being a stone statue in the pocket. The only thing im trying to figure out is it only the foorwork that makes a difference because when it come to arm talent they are equal or Mannion is a little better imo.

Arm talent is more than just strength.

 

[OldSchool]

I think the Rams un wisely traded up for Goff imho you have basically the same guy already on your roster all those picks we gave up for what??. I think Mannion is better and will be ready quicker than Goff..

I think the peace pipe did you no favors in life.

 

[Dxmissile]

I think the peace pipe did you no favors in life.

Lol you probably right

 

[Dxmissile]

Arm talent is more than just strength.

Which he has.. touch, anticipation, accuracy every scouting report about the guy mentions this.

 

[Dxmissile]

I think some of you think i dont want Goff to succeed, which is unfair because im a Rams fan from St.louis that plan on attending as many games as i can in L.A... I just wanna hear a different argument then footwork and release when the Rams decided to make that trade thats all. Because right now it too me it seem like it was done to create more excitement around the team. Im not debating if Goff is good or not Im more curious as to what makes him good. When i see a similar guy already on the roster

 

[LACHAMP46]

In reality it's best 4 because centers are less interchangeable and Tim Barnes probably isn't in our best 5 OL, but is the best center at the moment (Kush is huge not sure how that translates to the field though).

Watch out for my boy Kush.....As soon as he learns the checks.....Anybody that works in the gym like that screams, strong work ethic....
Still, Wichman & Brown need the reps....Reynolds...not so much...I wonder why Saff is getting reps at RT over Williams and Battle however....I still say, we got at least 8 O-Linemen that I'm comfortable with...
My best 5

Robinson, Saffold, Kush, Brown, Havenstein

i havent seen anywhere that says the playbook was too much for him in fact i have heard the complete opposite, that he was ahead of the curb because of the offense they ran and it was only verbiage that he was learning.

If the playbook wasn't too much, I'd like to know why he didn't play any significant snaps? Wasn't he in line to play the game Case was concussed? Mannion also played most of his college career with future NFL stars....Cook & Wheaton....yeah, they are future stars...calling it here...his line in his jr & sophomore years looked pretty damn good. and Jrry means no harm...He just knows his football. Check the college thread for some of his posts. enlightening to say the least...
Plus see below...highlighted for emphasis....

Mannion is a stone statue in the pocket. Much like Foles. And not like Brady. Slow processing speed. Slow feet. Moves like cement in his shoes. Slow release.

those last 3 statements are what I see. Mainly his feet...your feet have to "marry" your eyes in the pocket....

 

[Tron]

I think some of you think i dont want Goff to succeed, which is unfair because im a Rams fan from St.louis that plan on attending as many games as i can in L.A... I just wanna hear a different argument then footwork and release when the Rams decided to make that trade thats all. Because right now it too me it seem like it was done to create more excitement around the team. Im not debating if Goff is good or not Im more curious as to what makes him good. When i see a similar guy already on the roster

Ok, I'll add pocket presence then. Goff has incredible pocket presence and a feel for where all the defenders are when around him. He uses his constantly moving feet to avoid the pressure and be able to step up and throw at any point during the play.

 

[jrry32]

Look thats the 2nd time you attacked me verbally the first time i dismissed it and let it ride if you dont agree thats fine and thats your right but dont come at me like my opinion and what i see is invalid, because at this time neither Mannion or Goff has done any thing and if we go by college then obviously Mannion has had the better success. Youre talking about footwork moving inside the pocket moving with the flow of the oline and avoiding pressure inside the pocket i understand all of that but at the same time once again too me thats the only thing that differentiate the 2

I haven't personally attacked you once. And we're posting on the internet, so none of this could be "verbal."

I said you don't know what you're talking about. That's not a personal attack. It's an attack on your opinion.

You don't seem to understand what a QB's footwork should look like. You claimed that Peyton Manning had terrible footwork. That's very inaccurate. You claimed that Peyton Manning and Goff have happy feet. That's very inaccurate.

You are misunderstanding what people mean when they say, "happy feet." Happy feet means that a QB doesn't set his feet before throwing. This generally is a problem for QBs who are afraid to get hit or have taken too many hits. They throw before they get their lower body set to get the ball out more quickly to avoid hits. Peyton Manning did not have this problem. Jared Goff does not have this problem.

You mistake their hyperactive feet in the pocket for happy feet. That's not at all what that is. You want a QB with hyperactive feet in the pocket. It allows them to move to buy time quicker and get set and reset quicker. That is the opposite of happy feet. One of the things that made Manning so great and so unsackable (look at his career sack rate) were his extremely nimble, active feet. He was the master of using quick, subtle movements to buy time, find throwing lanes, and take angles away from defenders. He compounded that with the ability to get set incredibly quickly after moving off his spot. This allowed him to get the ball out quickly and accurately even when moving in the pocket.

Jared Goff does the same things. Here's a perfect example of it:
https://gifs.com/gif/W61WMQ

Goff steps up to eliminate the angle of the defender who beat his LT off the edge. As he steps up, the DT crashes inside to try and sack him. Goff side-steps the DT and immediately gets his feet set to get the ball out to his WR coming out of his break. It takes him one step to get his feet set and throwing base under him after evading the DT. That's incredible. It's the sort of thing you'll see out of only a handful of QBs at the NFL level, much less college.

That's not happy feet. That's an example of a guy with incredible footwork. Him keeping his feet active and moving in the pocket isn't happy feet. It's what QBs are taught to do. The reason most guys don't have footwork that looks like his is because most guys don't have quick enough feet to do it. Manning is one of the few who did. Although, it looked a lot uglier for Manning near the end of his career because you could see his feet getting heavier and less nimble.

As far as Mannion vs. Goff is concerned, it's not a contest for me. There isn't a single thing that Mannion did better than Goff coming out. Mannion was a slow mover and a slow thinker (on the field). I wasn't a fan of his pick, and I don't see him being anything more than a career backup. Goff is more physically talented, more mentally talented (on the field), and more technically skilled.

You're entitled to your opinion on Mannion.

 

[Roman Snow]

Everybody keep saying he couldnt see the field last year what are you gonna say when keenum start and finish the year. Of course Goff is gonna play because we sold all flexibilty to get him.

Uhhhh....why so bitter, oh one with the Denario Alexander avatar from, like eight years ago?

Seriously, DX, do you really buy the line your selling? Or are you just here as a gadfly? We are all pretty well excited that we "sold all flexibility to get Goff.":deadhorse:

He'll start right away. Struggle some, but show from the start that he is the man. He will make a lot of great plays this year, and we will go 11-5.


:rant:Holy crap, the Rams don't have another draft pick until 2030!!! We're screwed!

 

[DaveFan'51]

I still say, we got at least 8 O-Linemen that I'm comfortable with...
My best 5

Robinson, Saffold, Kush, Brown, Havenstein

I'm curious, why would you place Kush ahead of Barnes?

 

[jrry32]

I think some of you think i dont want Goff to succeed, which is unfair because im a Rams fan from St.louis that plan on attending as many games as i can in L.A... I just wanna hear a different argument then footwork and release when the Rams decided to make that trade thats all. Because right now it too me it seem like it was done to create more excitement around the team. Im not debating if Goff is good or not Im more curious as to what makes him good. When i see a similar guy already on the roster

If you're curious, here's a good post with my thoughts on Mannion:

There was a lot about his game that I didn't like. Fair or not, I saw a lot of him as a sophomore when he was not good. Got benched for Cody Vaz that year for a time. I was evaluating Markus Wheaton back then and I saw Mannion routinely throw inaccurate passes to him when he was open. So there was already a bad taste in my mouth with him from that point.

What issues did I have with his game? He just struck me as very similar to Nick Foles and Mike Glennon. Same sort of mechanical deficiencies. Same sort of physical tools. Same sort of frustrating inconsistencies. And I really didn't like his throwing motion. It wasn't as ugly as Hogan's but it wasn't pretty either.

The biggest issue I saw with Mannion is that he didn't do well when forced off his spot. He's one of those QBs that you come after when he's playing because he gets rattled when he's forced to move around a lot. It's kind of similar to the issues that Bradford has. You let him take his drop and get the ball out on time without a guy in his face, he looks good. Good rhythm passer. But when you mess with his rhythm, he is thrown completely off his game. I remember the Stanford game his Senior year, they blitzed the hell out of him. He had no answer for it.

That's something I don't like seeing. I can completely understand if a team is getting after you with their rush while blanketing your WRs. As a QB, you're stuck. But when a team is throwing the kitchen sink at you, you have to be able to diagnose the blitz, find your match-up advantages, and neutralize the blitz by getting the ball out quickly.

From years of watching him (even during his amazing year with Cooks), I saw a guy with middling physical talent, inconsistent mechanics, and a mental game that didn't always translate to the field. Don't get me wrong. He wasn't all bad. His touch throws, like fade routes, were gorgeous by the time he became a senior. But I just saw too many holes that NFL DCs can take advantage of.

Like I said earlier, I saw a lot of Foles and Glennon...but I felt he was an inferior prospect to Glennon because Glennon showed a bit more ability to move around without his accuracy becoming spotty. He strikes me as a career backup type. And I'm not entirely sure that Fisher and Snead felt differently. People tend to undervalue those players but after seeing Bradford struggle with injuries, I think Fisher and Snead value a good, steady backup QB.

Here's a good post with my thoughts on Goff:

Goff
Strengths:

• Great accuracy and touch on passes to all levels of the field. Will hit the strike zone consistently. Can drop the ball in the bucket on deep passes. Puts the ball in the correct spot for YAC. Doesn't throw with more velocity than is needed. Consistently throws the ball in a way to protect his WRs when possible.
• Outstanding pocket presence, movement, and poise under pressure. He's truly Luck caliber in his ability to maneuver the pocket, buy time, and find or create throwing lanes as a college passer. He has active, quick feet which allow him to set and reset quickly when moving and get the ball out in an instant. Dealt with a lot of pressure due to having a poor performing OL and constantly threw with defenders in his face or after he was forced off his spot.
• Top tier mental processing speed through his progressions and reads. Quick-minded player who can move through full-field reads with speed. Consistently can get to his 3rd or 4th progression when needed even when under fire. Rarely locks onto WRs. He also throws with great anticipation. He understands how to throw a WR open and how throws should be timed.
• Tough SOB. He took a beating throughout his career at Cal due to his OL and due to the team's lack of success. His defense was consistently one of the worst in the NCAA and forced Goff into shootouts. They went 1-11 his freshman year and 5-7 his sophomore year. Goff kept it together, never got discouraged, and helped Cal go 8-5 in his junior year. Some will blame Goff for his team not winning more but Cal's offense actually ranked 11th in points per game with 38.2 points per game scored his sophomore year...the problem was that their defense gave up 39.8 points per game. His junior year, the offense performed similarly with 37.8 points per game ranking 17th in the NCAA but the defense improved to allowing only 30.7 points per game which accounted for the team winning 8 games instead of 5. For those who knock Goff for not winning more, I have to wonder how a QB can compensate for a defense that allows nearly 40 points per game. Even Drew Brees has struggled to get New Orleans over the hump when their defense is among the worst in the NFL.
• Excellent intangibles. I have heard nothing but good things about Goff's work ethic, film habits, personality, leadership, and character. He's not an outgoing and outwardly confident at Wentz but Goff is the type of kid who is the first in and the last out by all reports and is popular among teammates. Goff was also responsible for running his offense at the LOS and received more responsibility at the LOS from his OC than any other QB who played under him.
• Checks all the physical boxes. Goff is 6'4" 215 with solid mobility, awesomely quick feet, and an above average arm. His hands are meet the minimum criteria in terms of size. And he's never missed a start due to an injury although he did suffer a separated shoulder in the last game of his freshman year at Cal.
• Great decision-maker. Goff is a lot like Peyton Manning in how you'd classify him. He's not a true gunslinger or a true game manager. He mixes elements of both but leans a tad more towards the gunslinger side of the coin. He's never shied away from testing tight coverage, he will take shots down the field, and he has a tremendous amount of confidence in his ability to fit throws into tight windows.
• Quick, natural release. Goff gets the ball out quickly and efficiently.

Weaknesses:

• Goff has a skinny frame and his hands are smaller than you'd like. He had some issues with fumbles during his career although it did seem to improve in his final year at Cal. There are some concerns that his frame will lead to durability issues in the NFL. It's possible.
• Goff will occasionally short-arm passes that he rushes which leads to inaccuracy. He also has some stretches of inconsistency when teams are able to throw him off his rhythm. He's definitely a rhythm passer. When he's on, he's lethal but he does have some stretches in games where he's off.
• Goff's arm is above average but it isn't elite. He won't be able to make some of the intermediate to deep sideline throws with zip at the NFL level against tight coverage. But there's a possibility that his arm strength will increase as he adds weight and physically matures.
• Goff can be fooled by underneath zone defenders at times which has led to interceptions. Will also force some passes knowing there is a risk of interception. Washington State got him once using a Cover-2 Trap. Goff went after the trap a few others times in the game and got away with it. He's definitely a guy who will take some risks.
• Hasn't had many big moments in his career. Cal hasn't been a contender and Goff hasn't had to make many drives in big, close games. He did it this year against Arizona State but it wasn't a game on a big stage.
• Goff played in an Air Raid variant so taking drops under center and learning a NFL playbook and NFL verbiage will be new to him.

Overall:

• Frankly, Goff doesn't have a lot of true weaknesses. He has some attributes that aren't strengths but they're more neutral than weaknesses. He's a polished passer who is extremely adept mentally and a great pure thrower. I've been smitten with him for over a year. Some will say that he resembles Bradford. And he does. He looks like college Bradford. Skinny kid who is a great pure thrower. But he's so much more advanced in the pocket than Bradford was. I hate to throw around this comparison but he really reminds me of Peyton Manning. Manning is the best QB I've seen play the game and one of my favorite players of all time so I don't throw that comparison around lightly. But he has feet, instincts, and movement in the pocket that are like Manning. And his coach even discusses how Goff studied Manning's feet and mannerisms in the pocket. What I see in Goff is a guy who I think will realistically pan out like Philip Rivers.(I can't say he'll pan out like Manning...it's just not fair to any player to expect that) He's not a dead-on comparison for Rivers as they have different body types, throwing motions, and demeanors. However, like Rivers, Goff has great movement and feel in the pocket, he is highly effective throwing vertically despite not possessing an elite arm, and he's a highly intelligent guy with a great feel for the game. I was reading an article where Goff was describing his thought process on a series of plays. He explained how he recognized that Stanford was playing a Cover-2, anticipated that their CB would not abandon his assignment to jump the underneath route because of his inexperience, and then showed a video of him making a perfect throw into the window created by the Stanford CB carrying the outside WR up the field rather than abandoning the assignment to jump the route the slot WR ran. Then Goff explained that the next time they ran that play in the same game, he expected the CB to not play the outside WR quite as tightly due to being burned once. Due to this, Goff threw the same route but released the ball a tick earlier and threw it to his WR's back hip to keep the CB from being able to jump the route, and then they showed the video of the throw being put on his WR's back hip a split second sooner and the CB trying to jump the route but failing because the ball was on the other side of the WR. What's my point here? Goff combines all the things you look for in a great QB into one skill-set. He's highly intelligent, he's deadly accurate, he has outstanding work habits, and he has amazing instincts in the pocket. I think he's a #1 overall caliber player and if we draft him, we'll win at least one Super Bowl with him as a our QB. You can bookmark this thread if you think that comment is too "optimistic."

 

[Dxmissile]

I haven't personally attacked you once. And we're posting on the internet, so none of this could be "verbal."

I said you don't know what you're talking about. That's not a personal attack. It's an attack on your opinion.

You don't seem to understand what a QB's footwork should look like. You claimed that Peyton Manning had terrible footwork. That's very inaccurate. You claimed that Peyton Manning and Goff have happy feet. That's very inaccurate.

You are misunderstanding what people mean when they say, "happy feet." Happy feet means that a QB doesn't set his feet before throwing. This generally is a problem for QBs who are afraid to get hit or have taken too many hits. They throw before they get their lower body set to get the ball out more quickly to avoid hits. Peyton Manning did not have this problem. Jared Goff does not have this problem.

You mistake their hyperactive feet in the pocket for happy feet. That's not at all what that is. You want a QB with hyperactive feet in the pocket. It allows them to move to buy time quicker and get set and reset quicker. That is the opposite of happy feet. One of the things that made Manning so great and so unsackable (look at his career sack rate) were his extremely nimble, active feet. He was the master of using quick, subtle movements to buy time, find throwing lanes, and take angles away from defenders. He compounded that with the ability to get set incredibly quickly after moving off his spot. This allowed him to get the ball out quickly and accurately even when moving in the pocket.

Jared Goff does the same things. Here's a perfect example of it:
https://gifs.com/gif/W61WMQ

Goff steps up to eliminate the angle of the defender who beat his LT off the edge. As he steps up, the DT crashes inside to try and sack him. Goff side-steps the DT and immediately gets his feet set to get the ball out to his WR coming out of his break. It takes him one step to get his feet set and throwing base under him after evading the DT. That's incredible. It's the sort of thing you'll see out of only a handful of QBs at the NFL level, much less college.

That's not happy feet. That's an example of a guy with incredible footwork. Him keeping his feet active and moving in the pocket isn't happy feet. It's what QBs are taught to do. The reason most guys don't have footwork that looks like his is because most guys don't have quick enough feet to do it. Manning is one of the few who did. Although, it looked a lot uglier for Manning near the end of his career because you could see his feet getting heavier and less nimble.

As far as Mannion vs. Goff is concerned, it's not a contest for me. There isn't a single thing that Mannion did better than Goff coming out. Mannion was a slow mover and a slow thinker (on the field). I wasn't a fan of his pick, and I don't see him being anything more than a career backup. Goff is more physically talented, more mentally talented (on the field), and more technically skilled.

You're entitled to your opinion on Mannion.

Lmao attacking my opinion isnt attacking me lol.. point out to me where i said Goff has happy feet, i said Manning had happy feet and if you think having escapibilty is the only thing you need to succeed in the nfl thats on you and i can point out plenty of nfl announcers who said the same exact thing about Manning and his feet . We just mortgaged the future on a guy who have great feet wow.. How can you say a guy is more mentally talented then a guy who ran a pro style offense and made all the checks at the line for his team im going off of college tape not off of perception because he is on the team. Mannion arm talent is better than Goff the only thing Goff does better is Move.

 

[So Ram]

I think some of you think i dont want Goff to succeed, which is unfair because im a Rams fan from St.louis that plan on attending as many games as i can in L.A... I just wanna hear a different argument then footwork and release when the Rams decided to make that trade thats all. Because right now it too me it seem like it was done to create more excitement around the team. Im not debating if Goff is good or not Im more curious as to what makes him good. When i see a similar guy already on the roster

I think your taking it a little to much at heart. The Rams had a choice to draft Carson Wentz & got the same kind of buzz. I'm not sure they made the right decision ? The Snisher failed evaluating Nick Foles. I think Jared Goff is going to be a top 10 QB. Still I'm a Kool-aide drinker.

 

[Dxmissile]

Uhhhh....why so bitter, oh one with the Denario Alexander avatar from, like eight years ago?

Seriously, DX, do you really buy the line your selling? Or are you just here as a gadfly? We are all pretty well excited that we "sold all flexibility to get Goff.":deadhorse:

He'll start right away. Struggle some, but show from the start that he is the man. He will make a lot of great plays this year, and we will go 11-5.


:rant:Holy crap, the Rams don't have another draft pick until 2030!!! We're screwed!

Lol bitter, who said i was bitter about anything, and dxmissile is mt name the same nickname that danario alexander used. Personally i just wanted to know what made him so special for us to trade up for him thats what i wanted to know.

 

[Dxmissile]

If you're curious, here's a good post with my thoughts on Mannion:


Here's a good post with my thoughts on Goff:

Thanks for the write up..

 

[Dxmissile]

Im just glad someone finally had something more to say than just footwork which is what i was asking for all along.

 

[Roman Snow]

Lol bitter, who said i was bitter about anything, and dxmissile is mt name the same nickname that danario alexander used. Personally i just wanted to know what made him so special for us to trade up for him thats what i wanted to know.

I was just giving you crap on the avatar. (It actually is pretty cool looking.) Then I scrolled and saw some of the abuse you are taking. Sorry. Didn't mean to pile on.

I actually like Mannion, and wanted to see what he could do this year....until we traded up. I'm all in for Goff. I like his intangibles. Yes, his footwork, but his eyes are always downfield, he doesn't panic, and his mind is calm. His arm is very accurate, and plenty strong. We are going to be pleasantly surprised how quickly he catches on. Peace DX

:cheers:

 

[Dxmissile]

I was just giving you crap on the avatar. (It actually is pretty cool looking.) Then I scrolled and saw some of the abuse you are taking. Sorry. Didn't mean to pile on.

I actually like Mannion, and wanted to see what he could do this year....until we traded up. I'm all in for Goff. I like his intangibles. Yes, his footwork, but his eyes are always downfield, he doesn't panic, and his mind is calm. His arm is very accurate, and plenty strong. We are going to be pleasantly surprised how quickly he catches on. Peace DX

:cheers:

Trust me i have too much time.emotion money invested in this team for Goff not to work. I just wanted a better reason than footwork