QB’s like Daniel Jones, what do you do?

[CGI_Ram]

The NFL has a QB salary problem. Guys like Daniel Jones, what do you do? It’s almost like they don’t have a place.

If you sign him, are you settling for a tier 2 guy, at STILL a very BIG cap number?

If he’s not worth busting your cap for years, or there is slight uncertainty, shouldn’t you move on?

Signing a tier 2 to a BIG CONTRACT for multiple years feels like a mistake to me.

The Giants are in a tough spot. Maybe the best move is to tag him.

https://www.sny.tv/articles/daniel-jones-price-tag-giants-build-contending-team

Daniel Jones' price tag will determine if Giants can build contending team around him​

Predicting the annual value of Jones’ next contract is a bit of the wild, wild west right now. No, he’s not Patrick Mahomes (Chiefs). He doesn’t have the past career successes of Aaron Rodgers (Packers), Russell Wilson (Broncos) or Deshaun Watson (Browns). Schoen is a shrewd negotiator — easily able to separate sense and emotion. He won’t pay Jones $40 million plus. He’s not worth that.

The appropriate figure is believed to be somewhere between $35 and $37 million, two executives familiar with the quarterback market told SNY. Another, whose team is in need of a veteran quarterback and would “explore” Jones if he were available, said he’d have a “hard time” justifying a $40 million figure for him. In the $30 millions? “Sure,” the exec said, “but not above.”

New Daniel Jones contract should scare the hell out of Giants fans

All signs point to Daniel Jones staying with the Giants for the 2023 season, but his high price tag could make it difficult to build around him.

fansided.com

New Daniel Jones contract should scare the hell out of Giants fans​

 

[kurtfaulk]

When he ran out of bounds, on 2nd and short with 5 mins left on the clock in the playoff game and two scores down, for a 4 yard loss instead of throwing the ball away that was all I needed to see. That made it 3rd and 6 and naturally they didn't get it. Then they punted the ball away and never saw it again before the game was over. Let him go.

 

[AvengerRam]

Similar dilemma with Geno Smith. Do you pay a guy with a questionable history based on one good year?

 

[Bootleg]

I wouldn't pay big bucks for a "tier 2" QB. I'd pay big bucks for a top-tier offensive line and a top -tier defense.

Then I'd draft a mid-round QB every year. Surrounded by the right pieces, one of these QBs on a rookie deal is bound to become a stud. Rinse and repeat.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

The market is out of control. Cousins wasn’t worth the huge deal he signed, but he was worth it for the Vikings. In hindsight maybe Washington should have paid him. They’d have been better off keeping him.

Damned if you do, and damned if you don’t. I wish their was a solution to cap these salaries. The players Union wouldn’t go for it though. The only obvious solution is to exclude the QB from the cap formula. But that could create its own problems.

1. The cap creates the desired outcome of parity. A team can be very good with a good young rookie QB but once they are paid things get tight. It wouldn’t work as well if QBs weren’t included.

2. More QBs would elect to hit free agency because there will always be a team willing to pay them more, minus a cap hit. This would result in QB prices becoming even more absurd, even for middling QBs. Teams would struggle to reap the reward of drafting a good QB if they all hit free agency. Plus some owners are richer than others. They could always have the best QBs. Jerry Jones would love it.

 

[den-the-coach]

I like Daniel Jones more then most because he's smart, he can extend plays and he can make all the throws. Plus when paired with decent offensive coaches, he's been successful. Jones IMO, is one of the most underrated runners as a QB and does a nice job protecting himself.

Now is he a top 5 QB? No, but I believe you can win in the NFL with a QB of the caliber of Jones plus give him some weapons on the outside and he'll be that much better. Again, I like him more then most and was actually hoping somehow he would end up in Horns, but after last year and paired with Brian Daboll, he's not going anywhere.

 

[Malibu]

To me it is quite simple if your the Giants you ask yourselves can Daniel Jones get us to the Superbowl? McVay asked the same question with Goff. The answer is no so why spend a dollar to keep Jones. The cost he will want not deserve is way out of line for one years production and many of those games they won in weird non traditional ways most not due to Jones.

One of my good friends is a Giants fan and we discuss this all the time. Unfortunately it is a seller's market with 14 + teams needing QBs the Giants if they let Jones go better have a solid upgrade to come and play for them. I would definitely take Jimmy G a tier 2 quarterback over Jones. If they could get Rodgers that would be huge but outside of that Daboll and Schoen are screwed the market doesn't line up well. Only 4 QBs are projected in the 1st round and I'm not sure even the teams near the top believe in any of them other than Bryce Young. But if you take 4 off the market that leaves 10 teams who still need a QB - assume Rodgers, Jimmy G and Carr move that is 7 teams still a seller's market. I would hold onto him for another year or try for Tannehill, Jimmy G or Mayfield all on short 3 year contracts with out clauses all three are better imo. But do they get you to the Superbowl?

Answer is go all in on Rodgers and see if you can pry him loose from the Packers if you feel you can make a run. Unfortunately with Saquon a FA and no wrs Rodgers is not coming.

 

[den-the-coach]

To me it is quite simple if your the Giants you ask yourselves can Daniel Jones get us to the Superbowl?

IMO, the answer is yes. I believe Jones is as good as Jalen Hurts, but he doesn't have weapons like Brown & Smith. Give him some options at WR and I believe he can lead the Giants to a Super Bowl like Hurts lead the Eagles.

 

[OnceARam]

Ask the Cowboys...

 

[PARAM]

The market is out of control. Cousins wasn’t worth the huge deal he signed, but he was worth it for the Vikings. In hindsight maybe Washington should have paid him. They’d have been better off keeping him.

Damned if you do, and damned if you don’t. I wish their was a solution to cap these salaries. The players Union wouldn’t go for it though. The only obvious solution is to exclude the QB from the cap formula. But that could create its own problems.

1. The cap creates the desired outcome of parity. A team can be very good with a good young rookie QB but once they are paid things get tight. It wouldn’t work as well if QBs weren’t included.

2. More QBs would elect to hit free agency because there will always be a team willing to pay them more, minus a cap hit. This would result in QB prices becoming even more absurd, even for middling QBs. Teams would struggle to reap the reward of drafting a good QB if they all hit free agency. Plus some owners are richer than others. They could always have the best QBs. Jerry Jones would love it.

As Dieter suggested, the QB should be separate from the regular cap. There are pros and cons but clearly its.....the most important position on the football field......the highest paid by far.......the most risk involved when you do sign one to huge jack.....the biggest stumbling block in getting to the SB.

I like Daniel Jones more then most because he's smart, he can extend plays and he can make all the throws. Plus when paired with decent offensive coaches, he's been successful. Jones IMO, is one of the most underrated runners as a QB and does a nice job protecting himself.

Now is he a top 5 QB? No, but I believe you can win in the NFL with a QB of the caliber of Jones plus give him some weapons on the outside and he'll be that much better. Again, I like him more then most and was actually hoping somehow he would end up in Horns, but after last year and paired with Brian Daboll, he's not going anywhere.

They should have picked up his fifth year option. But of course, they'd rather hire idiot head coaches (McAdoo, Shurmur, Judge) and blame it on the QBs (Manning, Jones). Now with a competent guy, the kid has shown his value. Which ain't top tier but it certainly ain't "don't pick up the 5th year option". Too late. Mismanagement of the franchise is gonna cost them one way or the other.

Which makes me happy to be a Ram fan. We've had two good QBs under McVay, despite Goff's early career warts. But our problem is "how do we pay all these stars?"

 

[snackdaddy]

Kyler Murray isn't worth that kind of money. But he got paid. He had AZ by the balls. Let him walk and they might be in quarterback purgatory for years. He showed flashes at times. So they took a chance. Now here is an injury prone, undersized quarterback who is not a team leader type. Getting paid like an elite QB. Glad they're in our division.

 

[dieterbrock]

I like Jones but no way would I pay him more than 25 mill. Jones at 25 mill plus 10 mill towards a FA WR like Schuster would move the needle, he takes the full 35 and they'll be drafting in the top 15 again next year.
Jones made some strides under Daboll but still only threw 17 TD passes in 18 games last year (including playoffs).
35 mill + is just insane for him. Heck if Daboll is the QB whisperer that turned Jones around, then why not turn the trick with Baker Mayfield? Would probably get him for 10 mill.

 

[Malibu]

I like Jones but no way would I pay him more than 25 mill. Jones at 25 mill plus 10 mill towards a FA WR like Schuster would move the needle, he takes the full 35 and they'll be drafting in the top 15 again next year.
Jones made some strides under Daboll but still only threw 17 TD passes in 18 games last year (including playoffs).
35 mill + is just insane for him. Heck if Daboll is the QB whisperer that turned Jones around, then why not turn the trick with Baker Mayfield? Would probably get him for 10 mill.

This is my point in my post he is a mid tier 18 - 25 QB imo not remotely what I hear they are saying about being a 40- 50m per year QB. Just because the market says that is the going rate doesn't mean every QB up for renewal is in that league. His stats prove otherwise. If I was the Giants I would dump him. They have the perfect scenario to NOT do what the Rams did with Goff and regret 2 years later when the team is in their prime. Bail now and build the team with no huge cap issues unless it is a Rodgers.

 

[dieterbrock]

Just because the market says that is the going rate doesn't mean every QB up for renewal is in that league

Perfectly stated
Thing is, if Daboll is the reason he's "turned the corner" then why would he want to leave? He's made 26 mill in his first 4 seasons, hardly pauper money. So why dont they offer him a nice increase to 15-20 mill with some crazy bonuses? He can continue his growth and always get a big extension later if he truly has turned it on. So sure, chase it while you got a shot at it I agree, but who's to say its not big money=big mistake and you end up on backup duty the rest of your career?
There is no way a team out there would offer him more than 15-20 if the Giants dont sign him. But like you said, there's some sort of "renewal rate" that teams abide by? Only until it stops, and the Giants can be the ones to stop it.

 

[PARAM]

Kyler Murray isn't worth that kind of money. But he got paid. He had AZ by the balls. Let him walk and they might be in quarterback purgatory for years. He showed flashes at times. So they took a chance. Now here is an injury prone, undersized quarterback who is not a team leader type. Getting paid like an elite QB. Glad they're in our division.

He had Kein and Kliff by the balls. Then he gpt paid and was injured and AZ said, "see ya boys, we can't fire Kyler. But this shit ain't gonna work". And yes, glad they're in our division.

 

[Ram65]

I like Daniel Jones more then most because he's smart, he can extend plays and he can make all the throws. Plus when paired with decent offensive coaches, he's been successful. Jones IMO, is one of the most underrated runners as a QB and does a nice job protecting himself.

Now is he a top 5 QB? No, but I believe you can win in the NFL with a QB of the caliber of Jones plus give him some weapons on the outside and he'll be that much better. Again, I like him more then most and was actually hoping somehow he would end up in Horns, but after last year and paired with Brian Daboll, he's not going anywhere.

IMO, the answer is yes. I believe Jones is as good as Jalen Hurts, but he doesn't have weapons like Brown & Smith. Give him some options at WR and I believe he can lead the Giants to a Super Bowl like Hurts lead the Eagles.

He is a very good runner. Ball security was a big problem for him. He seems to have improved a lot in this area. The options below give somewhat of an idea of his worth. The article gives numbers for QBs in the first and second tiers. If they can get a 4-year deal in the lower to mid 30Mil range that might be the best idea. If they had taken the 5th year option they would be in a better situation to negotiate.

Assessing Daniel Jones' season and what type of contract the Giants could give the improved QB

Finding an appropriate value for Jones could be a tricky proposition

www.cbssports.com

The non-exclusive quarterback franchise tag, which would entitle the Giants to two first-round picks from the signing team on an unmatched offer sheet, should be $32.445 million with a $225 million 2023 salary cap. This represents 14.42% of the salary cap. The transition tag, which would only give the Giants a right to match another team's offer sheet, is expected to be $29.53 million with a $225 million salary cap.

 

[Hobgoblin]

When he ran out of bounds, on 2nd and short with 5 mins left on the clock in the playoff game and two scores down, for a 4 yard loss instead of throwing the ball away that was all I needed to see. That made it 3rd and 6 and naturally they didn't get it. Then they punted the ball away and never saw it again before the game was over. Let him go.

I remember that game….

What’s even more baffling is the commentators said nothing about how stupid that was. Like pants on head type.

 

[Giles]

You let him go. I mean, he had only 15 passing tds in a 17 game season....that's terrible no matter who your recievers are.

 

[Tano]

He is a very good runner. Ball security was a big problem for him. He seems to have improved a lot in this area. The options below give somewhat of an idea of his worth. The article gives numbers for QBs in the first and second tiers. If they can get a 4-year deal in the lower to mid 30Mil range that might be the best idea. If they had taken the 5th year option they would be in a better situation to negotiate.

Assessing Daniel Jones' season and what type of contract the Giants could give the improved QB

Finding an appropriate value for Jones could be a tricky proposition

www.cbssports.com

The non-exclusive quarterback franchise tag, which would entitle the Giants to two first-round picks from the signing team on an unmatched offer sheet, should be $32.445 million with a $225 million 2023 salary cap. This represents 14.42% of the salary cap. The transition tag, which would only give the Giants a right to match another team's offer sheet, is expected to be $29.53 million with a $225 million salary cap.

They should do the Non-exclusive franchise tag

 

[Faceplant]

What would the market bare for Jones if he hit FA? I'm thinking 10-15M...and if I'm the Giants, that's about where I would start the negotiations.