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Ot Greg Robinson Wows At Weigh-in

Discussion in 'RAMS - NFL TALK' started by Memphis Ram, Feb 20, 2014.

  1. BonifayRam Well-Known Member

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    Hey good-afternoon Tron
    Both Jake & Joe are close to 6-7 in overall height with extra long overall types. Both were over 315 pounders too. Mathews is approx 2 inches less and smaller overall frame. I still like Jake Mathews but a 330 plus pounder like GR being inserted into a Zac Stacy run game is big very big.
     
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  2. jjab360 Well-Known Member

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    I like Robinson too, but that's not really a good argument. There's not much of a point in just being taller if you don't have longer arms. If anything, it just makes it harder to win the leverage battle.
     
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  3. Tron Fights for the User

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    Afternoon Bon!! Looks like were back to debating about tackles once again lol

    Yes, but inserting him into a Bradford pass game is very worrying :cautious:

    OK how about this example. Joe Staley is .6 inches taller and 306 lbs with 33 1/2 arms.
    Brandon Albert has 33 7/8 and same weight and height.
    Duane Brown is 6'4, 303 lbs with 33 1/4 arms

    Thats really all I can come up with of current players :oops: so my counter argument must end here lol
     
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  4. BonifayRam Well-Known Member

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    Like I said in my first post the arm length is a serious issue to work through in the NFL. jjab360 I not trying to make an good argument in this issue in an effort on behalf of Jake Mathews. But do know that the wing span of Long & Thomas is of a good size & that wing span comes in very handy too even if they have the less than ideal arm length. If a OLT prospect has less than ideal arm length and a less than ideal wing span well the OLT prospect will sure have major work ahead of him in the next step.
     
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  5. Username Has a Well-Known Member

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    In the end I'm gonna leave this one up to the Rams. I'd like to come away with 1 of them though. I think the talk on each is pretty accurate. Matthews is a better player right now, but Robinson has the potential to be a monster. Potential is just that though, potential. There's a lot of other intangibles that come into play with a player such as character, football IQ, etc. that the Rams will be finding out about soon.

    Either way we're in a good position guys! Starting to get draft fever
     
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  6. BonifayRam Well-Known Member

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    Not really Tron I do not have a dog in this fight amongst these two OT's GR & JM. I like what both bring and would have no issues with one of these two in our OL @ any OL position. I lean in hoping a short trade down before we may our first pick and what ever is there GR-JM-JC or SW would be find.
     
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  7. Tron Fights for the User

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    This is for you Bon, I am sure you read it back when it came out, but thought I'd share it with you and everyone else as it pertains to our discussion here. Of course better arm length is better, but there are always exceptions.

    Arm length, hand quickness dictate OLT success

    By Nolan Nawrocki
    April 14, 2009


    Many traits are required for an offensive tackle to successfully be able to handle edge speed — quick hands and feet, balance and natural knee bend. The one physical trait that is most often taken for granted, however, is arm length.

    Without good arm length, generally considered at least 33½ inches on the left side and preferably 34 inches, it is difficult for blockers to be able to handle inside counters and recover quickly to keep a pocket clean.

    PFW calculated the average arm length of every starting left tackle in the NFL last season, and it was 34½ inches. The average arm length of the Pro Bowl tackles in the NFC, all of whom were left tackles, was 33¾ inches, while the average of AFC Pro Bowlers, also all left tackles, was 34 inches.

    To overcome average arm length, offensive tackles must be very smart, understand angles and be technique-sound, which describes Titans All-Pro OLT Michael Roos to a T. That is why he can overcome having a league OLT-worst 32½-inch arms and only give up one sack, according to STATS LLC. Other factors in Roos' success that were cited by evaluators included good coaching and sound protection schemes, with Mike Munchak being regarded as one of the top OL coaches in the game.

    Those with long arms, however, continue to excel. For example, Denver's Ryan Clady, who possesses an NFL-best 36¾-inch arms as measured at the Combine last year, allowed a league-best half-sack in 16 starts as a rookie. Clady's combination of length, quickness and athletic ability allowed him to adapt very seamlessly to the pro game.
    The ability of quarterbacks to feel pressure, buy time with their feet and get rid of the ball quickly also affects a blind-side protector’s success. That is why Philadelphia OLT Tra Thomas, despite really struggling last season and appearing to decline every game, was able to get by, giving up only two sacks. Few coaches help their tackles on the edges like Eagles coach Andy Reid does. And even if Donovan McNabb has shown some signs of aging, he still shows great escapability in the pocket.

    Having long arms, however, does not always matter if a tackle has slow hands. Browns OLT Joe Thomas appears effortless with his hands. Seahawks OT Walter Jones is extremely efficient with his hand use. Flozell Adams, however, does not have great hand quickness, but he does have extremely long arms and is generally able to get by using his length.

    With 32½-inch arms and average quickness, it is easy to understand why the Lions are considering moving Jeff Backus inside rather than having him continue to protect the edges.

    The following chart is sorted by arm length and includes the number of sacks allowed last season, according to STATS. Players highlighted in blue were selected to represent the NFC in the Pro Bowl. Players in red represented the AFC. The arm length of Pro Bowl players is boldfaced.

    Team Left tackle Arm length Sacks
    allowed Starts Sacks per game
    Denver Broncos Ryan Clady 36 3/4 0.5 16 0.03
    Philadelphia Eagles Tra Thomas 36 1/2 2 16 0.13
    Dallas Cowboys Flozell Adams 36 1/2 7.25 16 0.45
    St. Louis Rams Orlando Pace 36 1/4 2 14 0.14 New York Jets D'Brickashaw Ferguson 36 1/4 4 16 0.25
    Indianapolis Colts Tony Ugoh 36 3 12 0.25
    Baltimore Ravens Jared Gaither 36 3 15 0.20
    Miami Dolphins Jake Long 35 3/4 2.5 16 0.16
    San Diego Chargers Marcus McNeill 35 1/2 3 14 0.21
    Minnesota Vikings Bryant McKinnie 35 1/2 4 12 0.33
    Pittsburgh Steelers Max Starks 35 1/2 4 11 0.36
    Kansas City Chiefs Branden Albert 35 1/2 4.5 15 0.30
    New Orleans Saints Jammal Brown 34 3/4 3 15 0.20
    Cincinnati Bengals Levi Jones 34 3/4 5.5 10 0.55
    Jacksonville Jaguars Khalif Barnes 34 3/4 7.5 16 0.47
    Seattle Seahawks Walter Jones 34 1/2 3.5 12 0.29
    Oakland Raiders Kwame Harris 34 1/4 7.5 11 0.68
    San Francisco ***** Joe Staley 34 1/4 8.5 16 0.53
    Houston Texans Duane Brown 34 1/4 11.5 16 0.72
    Arizona Cardinals Mike Gandy 34 6.25 16 0.39
    Chicago Bears John St. Clair 34 9.25 16 0.58
    Cleveland Browns Joe Thomas 33 3/4 4.5 16 0.28
    New York Giants David Diehl 33 3/4 6.5 16 0.41
    Washington Redskins Chris Samuels 33 1/2 3 12 0.25
    New England Patriots Matt Light 33 1/2 7.5 16 0.47
    Carolina Panthers Jordan Gross 33 1/4 3 15 0.20
    Buffalo Bills Jason Peters 33 1/8 11.5 13 0.88
    Green Bay Packers Chad Clifton 33 7.5 15 0.50
    Tampa Bay Buccaneers Donald Penn 33 8.5 16 0.53
    Atlanta Falcons Sam Baker 32 3/4 1 5 0.20
    Detroit Lions Jeff Backus 32 1/2 9.25 16 0.58
    Tennessee Titans Michael Roos 32 1/4 1 16 0.06

    Following is a breakdown of the arm length of the tackle and guard prospects in this year's class as measured at the Combine and classified by where they are projected to play in the pros.

    Three of the top four OT prospects in this year's draft — Eugene Monroe, Jason Smith and Michael Oher — have arm lengths that measure less than 34 inches, but all show the quickness desired to play on the edges in the pros. The tackle with the longest arms, Andre Smith, could be the most likely to kick inside because of his overall lack of quickness and susceptibility against counter moves.

    Left tackles School Arm length
    Gerald Cadogan Penn State 35
    Andre Smith Alabama 35
    Will Beatty Connecticut 34 3/4
    Joel Bell Furman 34
    Jamon Meredith South Carolina 34
    Eugene Monroe Virginia 33 7/8
    Jason Smith Baylor 33 3/4
    Michael Oher Mississippi 33 1/2
    Xavier Fulton Illinois 33 1/2
    Troy Kropog Tulane 33 1/4

    Phil Loadholt's rare length is what gives some evaluators comfort thinking he might be able to play on the left side. However, his lack of quickness was exposed this season, and he projects best to the right side in the pros. Many others, such as Ramon Foster, Andrew Gardner, Alex Boone and Jose Valdez, all of whom played outside in college, could be forced to play inside because of their lack of quickness. Eben Britton's lack of arm length remains a big concern to NFL teams

    Right tackles School Arm length
    Phil Loadholt Oklahoma 36 1/2 Gus Parrish Kent State 35
    Ramon Foster Tennessee 34 1/2
    Andrew Gardner Georgia Tech 34 1/2
    Garrett Reynolds North Carolina 34 1/2
    Alex Boone Ohio State 34 3/8
    Jose Valdez Arkansas 34
    Lydon Murtha Nebraska 33 7/8
    Eben Britton Arizona 32 3/4

    Seeing Herman Johnson's rare length at the Combine left some coaches believing they could get away with playing Johnson at tackle with enough chip help. However, his feet are very heavy, and he could always have issues handling quickness on and island.

    Oklahoma's Duke Robinson, conversely, shows enough quickness and length, with nearly 35-inch arms, to help a team outside in a pinch. Andy Levitre, who started at left tackle for Oregon State, clearly projects best to guard, in part because of his short arms (32½ inches).

    Guards School Arm length
    Herman Johnson LSU 36 1/2
    Paul Fanaika Arizona State 35
    Jaimie Thomas Maryland 35
    Roger Allen Missouri Western 34 3/4
    Duke Robinson Oklahoma 34 3/4
    Louis Vasquez Texas Tech 34 3/4
    Brandon Walker Oklahoma 34 1/2
    Jason Watkins Florida 34 3/8
    Andy Kemp Wisconsin 34 1/8
    Anthony Parker Tennessee 34 1/8
    Robert Brewster Ball State 34
    Travis Bright Brigham Young 33 7/8
    Kraig Urbik Wisconsin 33 3/4
    Tyronne Green Auburn 33 3/4
    Dan Gay Baylor 33 1/2
    Ryan McKee Southern Mississippi 33 1/2
    Cornelius Lewis Tennessee State 33 1/2
    Rey Feinga Brigham Young 33 1/2
    Seth Olsen Iowa 33 1/8
    Matt Slauson Nebraska 33 1/8
    C.J. Davis Pittsburgh 32 3/4
    Andy Levitre Oregon State 32 1/2
    Greg Isdaner West Virginia 32 1/2
    Kyle Link McNeese State 32
    Trevor Canfield Cincinnati 32
     
    #107
  8. Tron Fights for the User

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    Coolio my friend!!! Can't argue with what you hope happens on draft day.
     
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  9. jjab360 Well-Known Member

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    Matthews has decent arm length, they're only slightly below average for an NFL OT. They're long enough to where they're not an asset when compared to some of his peers, but they're not the liability you think they are. Not really sure where wingspan comes into play here with O-linemen usually sticking their arms straight out in front of them and not to their sides. Besides, wingspan is a derivative of arm length, not sure why you think Long or Thomas' wingspans would be so great when they have below average arm length, but I'd like to see the numbers on that one.
     
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  10. siiimmons New Member

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    Yes I mentioned hydrostatic weighing in the first post. It is a good measurement, but it is tough to do. It takes a lot of time and is uncomfortable for the person underwater. They have to expel every cubic centimeter of air out of their lungs otherwise the buoyancy of the lungs will ruin the results. Try this, exhale until you think you can't exhale anymore, then exhale a little more. Now, hold your breath for another 15-30 seconds and keep perfectly still, so you don't move the scale. Now imagine doing that for every combine player, would take forever, because inevitably several players would have to do it multiple times because of mistakes. Bod Pods and DEXA would be more player-friendly and accurate ways to test body fat. Google those if you're interested because I don't want to derail this thread anymore.

    One last thing I will say though to clear up any doubt about BMI vs body fat, in the pic both guys have the same BMI. However, it is clear to see they will have a very different body fat percentage.
    bmi-comparison.gif
    (not sure how big this will be, please re-size if necessary)

    Onto the draft, my heart says Sammy or Clowney, but my head says Robinson or Matthews.
     
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  11. Boffo97 Well-Known Member

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    I don't think anyone is "lacking understanding" of anything, and going there is a little bit on the arrogant side. If you pick a lineman that early, you want him to be immediate or very near future LT. Since that's not an immediate and perhaps not even a next year need, I only want to draft Robinson (who most of the OT crowd seem to be pulling for) if he's a once in a decade sure thing, and the questions on his pass blocking alone deny him that status.

    I agree our offensive line needs help, but where it needs the most help is on the interior, and you draft interior linemen later.

    We all have different opinions on how to help the team best. Just because some people disagree with you, it doesn't mean they lack understanding, are annoying, or are getting out of hand. You could be the one who's wrong.
     
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    Last edited: Feb 21, 2014
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  12. A55VA6 Shutdown Corner

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    Greg Robinson and Rams met on Thursday night for an interview session. So there is interest.
     
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  13. Tron Fights for the User

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    Uh oh....cue the Robinson followers :sneaky:
     
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  14. Boffo97 Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't be surprised if the Rams met with everyone near the top. The quarterbacks might be a LITTLE surprising, but might as well put in due diligence and all that.
     
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  15. jjab360 Well-Known Member

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    Technically everyone lacks understanding of plenty of things, ironically thinking that you don't is arrogance. Didn't mean to offend anyone, though, but I think your way of thinking the LT is so much more important than any other lineman is antiquated. None of the 5 offensive linemen drafted in the top 10 last year started the season out at LT, contracts for offensive guards are fast approaching comparable value to contracts for offensive tackles, and pass rushers are being moved all over the line more than ever before.
     
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  16. BonifayRam Well-Known Member

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    True... but if we look @ the top 3 OT's taken in the 2013 top five......KC-Jags-Eagles all three started the beginning of the season @ Right OT. So those teams drafted OLT's and played them elsewhere.

    If JM or GR were to be selected with the Jake Long surgery & injuries to his ACL & MCL I assure you that there will be plenty of an immediate need to have a OLT in training camp & pre season for some prospect and maybe even into the regular season if there is a slight setback in Longs rehab.

    If Long is fully successful in returning to full health there is a OL post just a few feet to the right of the OLT post that's a wide open vacancy sign. If Long is unable to regain his late 2013 season form what does Fisher do then?

    Like you said the OL needs help...I would add that no other Ram unit on this team has so many questions so many possible openings as the OL.

    The ole saying you can draft Olers later can be said of DL'ers, Lb'ers, safeties, Cornerbacks, pass recievers & so on.....but I would say that the Rams have no recent evidence thus far that Fisher & Snead can draft OL'ers later
     
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  17. Tron Fights for the User

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    I think they played them at RT because they just didn't play good enough for the most part to play LT.
     
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  18. Username Has a Well-Known Member

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    That's interesting. Didn't really know the exact process. I'm not suggesting they do a bmi test for the combine either just curious if u had experience with that type of test.

    I have a PHD in derailing threads btw, and I don't read. Hence me missing your reference in the first post to this subject. I'm proud of this
     
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  19. Boffo97 Well-Known Member

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    I didn't say I understood absolutely everything. But trying to twist things around to saying that those who disagree with you lack understanding (and the other things listed) isn't being insulting is flat out silly.

    I wonder how many of those top offensive linemen came onto a team that just got a new LT the year before? And how many are still not going to be LT this year?

    If Snisher pick an OT, they're both going against Fisher's grain of not taking linemen early and publicly admitting that signing Long was a mistake. I don't think they'll do that. I *might* be wrong, but would be surprised. I'll live with it if they don't draft Watkins. Some of the pro-Robinson guys, I'm starting to worry that the sackcloth and ashes will come out if they don't draft Robinson.

    Now, that doesn't mean your opinion lacks understanding, is annoying or getting out of hand. It just means I disagree. And you disagree with me. That's fine.

    I snipped most of this because it's kind of redundant with jjab's response (and I addressed the concerns that it MIGHT be a need if this, that and the other thing happens before). I'd say two things:

    1. We wouldn't be drafting Watkins just to be a receiver, but to be a potential #1 receiver. Those cannot be taken later.
    2. We might not have seen it here yet, but Fisher (and Boudreau) certainly have seen success with later drafted linemen. We have seen success here with FA linemen.
     
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  20. jjab360 Well-Known Member

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    Robinson had 32 reps on the bench press, Matthews had 24.

    32 reps with 35" arms is very, very impressive, btw. Fluker only had 21 reps last year due to his long arms and some would say he was one of the most powerful linemen in the NFL from day one.
     
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    Last edited: Feb 21, 2014