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Ot Greg Robinson Wows At Weigh-in

Discussion in 'RAMS - NFL TALK' started by Memphis Ram, Feb 20, 2014.

  1. siiimmons

    siiimmons New Member

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    Just gotta clear this up since this is in my line of work...BMI would be useless at the combine. BMI is for the general population only. NFL athletes would all have BMI close to 30 or above (even skill positions) making them "obese." This is because the muscle mass would skew the BMI numbers. They could do a body fat percentage test, which is totally unrelated to the BMI calculation. This is with the calipers or hydrostatic weighing which would give the 7% body fat or whatever you are looking for. Terrible first post, I know.

    On to the issue, the only wrong answer I feel with the number two pick would be a bad trade (or a QB) Something that only nets us a second rounder this year and little else. Robinson, matthews, watkins, clowney, or a solid trade are all fine. Hard to mess this up.
  2. PhxRam

    PhxRam The Estimated Prophet

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    Welcome to the board.. Hope to see you around here more often
  3. Rams and Gators

    Rams and Gators Well-Known Member Pit Boss

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    Not a terrible first post at all (mainly because it's in agreement with what I said (y)).

    Also agree with your second point.

    Welcome to the board, there's a intros thread at the top.
  4. Thordaddy

    Thordaddy Binding you with ancient logic

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    May be your line of work but in mine we use the term BMI to mean body fat vs. lean mass and I beg to differ on the value of knowing that because as jrry said , Matthews may well have more muscle and be able to carry many more extra pounds ,Robinson may be at a level you'd want him to drop weight.
    Further you are way off on that 30% figure

    https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/03/14/fantasy-reaction-steven-jackson-signs-with-atlanta/
  5. PhxRam

    PhxRam The Estimated Prophet

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    I think he is dead on based on what he posted.

    He said if you were to use BMI (as defined in his field) you would get 30. If you were to use body fat percentage you would get the number closer to what we all expect to see

    "He also showed up to camp at only 5 percent body fat and 6 pounds lighter than previous seasons. "
  6. Rams and Gators

    Rams and Gators Well-Known Member Pit Boss

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    I think he meant BMI would be useless, not what you call BMI.

    Using his height and weight on wikipedia SJ's BMI would be 30.1.
  7. Thordaddy

    Thordaddy Binding you with ancient logic

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    Again a BMI calculation is NOT a BMI, it is a way of roughly figuring body fat once someone decides they are going to call something what they do to describe a phenomenon it doesn't mean we are forever tied to their antiquated ways of figuring what is being described by the term.
    See I'm cool but I'm sweating right now so am I or am I not
  8. Thordaddy

    Thordaddy Binding you with ancient logic

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    I don't doubt it and FWIW the index was developed initially as a means of estimating body fat

    BTW I was sweating because I was loading a cow up to send to market ,her vagina had prolapsed and sloggin my high fat body around in the mud was taxing,if I'd been leaner I would probably still be frsh as a daisy.
    Back to my point though before we got off on this, a leaner athlete would IMO be more desirable just because I'd feel more comfortable he was more in tune with staying in shape eating right etc.
    I also wish they did more cardio testing of these guys cuz it all might have alerted us that Rokevious Watkins was undraftable without bringing a lower round guy in for one of our valuable pre draft visits.
    I agree that a lot of the things they do are pretty useless and would like to see more useful info come from the combine such as.....Maybe they do more than I think and the only numbers you see are the sexy ones ardunno.
  9. jrry32

    jrry32 Well-Known Member

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    Not sure it would have made a difference. I'm sure they knew about his weight issues. Probably just thought he could overcome it with proper guidance. Sometimes you gamble and win, sometimes you lose.
  10. Thordaddy

    Thordaddy Binding you with ancient logic

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    And you might be right, under the circumstances that's exactly what we did, but guys train for things they test for at the combine,they try to improve every metric,if the combine tested for these things the guys invited would have incentive to improve them. ERGO then a guy like ROK who wasn't going to whip the fat off even to get drafted would be ferreted out.
    Set standards ,improve performance,weed out those who won't would be my goal.
  11. siiimmons

    siiimmons New Member

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    That idea (endurance drills) would be a good idea. Or at worst put them on a bike for 12 minutes and you could find their VO2 max. That would tell a lot about their conditioning since the season ended.
  12. RamFan503

    RamFan503 Grill and Brew Master

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    Yeah - I don't really put too much stock in any of these draft evaluators. Get past the first ten picks and most of them are way off anyway. I just like that CBS has probably the most complete list and is easiest to see pretty much the same stuff everyone has on the players.
  13. RamFan503

    RamFan503 Grill and Brew Master

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    I'd actually like to see that too. I remember someone talking about how players can adjust their weight up or down to suit their position or division. Wrestling is a great example of that - boxing too. Simply put, a more complex BMI tells you if the athlete is watered up or if they dumped weight in an unhealthy quick manner, etc. You don't see it in professional boxing that I'm aware of but you do see it in amateurs.

    Now - they may already be doing that. You think of all the x-rays and myriad of tests they put the players through at the Combine, a real BMI might be one of them and we just don't know it. Anyone out there know one way or another?
  14. RamFan503

    RamFan503 Grill and Brew Master

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    Good info. And no - not a bad first post. So being that we have someone who knows, in athletics, isn't a body fat % test done in conjunction with BMI or am I just screwing up the terms. Been many years since I was in boxing.
  15. BonifayRam

    BonifayRam Well-Known Member

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    This arm length is a serious issue. Saffold's arms were 33.5 and its hard to overcome when being asked to play Left OT.
  16. siiimmons

    siiimmons New Member

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    I've done 100s of BMIs and probably close to 100 body fat percentage tests using body calipers. In the professional sense, the two are completely separate test. Yes they can be done one right after another, though. However, Thordaddy may be referring to a BIA (bioelectrical impedance) machine. This uses two electrodes or handles on different parts of the body (usually just held in the hands). It sends a small electrical current through and tells us the body fat percentage. These machines sometimes have a BMI calculator where if you enter the height and weight it will tell you the BMI. These machines, while easy to use, have something like a 3-5% error when determining body fat.

    Tl;Dr: Body fat percentage and BMI are completely different. There are machines that do both, but these machines aren't very accurate at predicting body fat percentage. BMI is a a ratio of height and weight, it does not take into effect fat-mass or lean-mass.
  17. Tron

    Tron Fights for the User

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    Joe Thomas has 32 1/2 arms
    Jake Long has 32 7/8's

    I agree that it can be an issue, I prefer 34'+. But some can overcome it fine.
  18. Username

    Username Has a Well-Known Member

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    Having too low of a BMI can be harmful to an athletes endurance in a competition against athletes of equal weight. You hear this discussed in mix martial arts all the time.

    In football though, especially as a linemen, if you can carry the extra weight, you do. Robinsons conditioning is not a problem.
  19. RamFan503

    RamFan503 Grill and Brew Master

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    Cool info - thanks. Don't think they had these machines you speak of in the early 80s. :sneaky:
  20. Username

    Username Has a Well-Known Member

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    Have you heard of "Hydrostatic Underwater Weighing?" I heard that is suppose to be pretty accurate