Jon Gruden compares Manziel to Brett Favre

[Faceplant]

I don't mind having non-Rams discussions and pretty much expect things to drift that way, especially in the offseason. Certainly don't have to like the guys to respect them and I think too many people forget how good some of these guys actually were and fail to look at them objectively. Taking various factors into account.

In Favre's and Montana's cases, I think a big consideration is the culture change the each had to overcome. Green Bay and SF were both really bad for a long time before they each took over and that they became league stars is a part of the testament to what they were able to do. Sure, Steve Young and Aaron Rodgers both came in and did well, but that was for teams in a totally different place.

Totally agree, I was just poking fun at the obvious. I absolutely HATED Montana and Young, but I certainly respect their talent. I am old enough to remember a LOT of Rams game against ol' Joe Cool. I remember feeling utterly helpless when those teams played. Like the Rams needed a perfect game to win. I never feared young like that, even though he pretty much had his way with the Rams as well. Both great QBs for sure though. HOF doesn't let just any schmuck in after all.....

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Young had 36 TDs in 98' and 35 in 94'. Montanas highest was 31. Youngs highest yards total was 3969, 4023, and 4170. Montana reached 3900 twice. Young had a RAT (ESPN version of QBR)over 100 8 times, and Montana had a RAT over 100 4 times.

Comparing a rookie Young in Tampa Bay to an accomplished veteran, Montana in KC Faceplant?

BTW I hated them both too so I am not exactly biased towards one or the other.

 

[moklerman]

Young had 36 TDs in 98' and 35 in 94'. Montanas highest was 31. Youngs highest yards total was 3969, 4023, and 4170. Montana reached 3900 twice. Young had a RAT (ESPN version of QBR)over 100 8 times, and Montana had a RAT over 100 4 times.

Comparing a rookie Young in Tampa Bay to an accomplished veteran, Montana in KC Faceplant?

BTW I hated them both too so I am not exactly biased towards one or the other.

You value regular season yardage and TD totals and ESPN's joke rating over post season numbers and championships?

And Young may have been an NFL rookie but he had plenty of playing time in the USFL to not consider him a true rookie. Also, what about his second year in TB? What about Montana being held together with spit and imagination when he was in KC? What about Montana outplaying and beating Young in '94 when they went head to head?

Young: 20TD passes in 20 playoff games. 85.8 rating
Montana: 45TD pass in 23 playoff games. 95.6 rating

Montana: most TD passes(11) in one post season(with no interceptions).

And as I said. Montana wasn't out there trying to break someone else's records. Young specifically tried to break Montana's completion % and passer rating records. He stayed in the game just long enough to break the record on dink and dunk passes and then sat out the rest of the game. Seems pretty petty, doesn't it?

Montana: 4 rings.
Young: 1 ring.

 

[Faceplant]

Young was most definitely NOT a true rookie in Tampa...either year, haha. I remember actually rooting FOR him when he was with the Express......

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Yep. Dink and dunk passes. Exactly why I said that I don't consider any West Coast QB to be great. Kevin Kolb looked good in a west coast offense.

It is all relevant. USFL competition was not the Same as being in a veteran league. It was like the minor leagues. Montana had better players and possibly an Easier road to the playoffs. From one year to the next playoff competition changes. It doesn't prove anything.

 

[moklerman]

Yep. Dink and dunk passes. Exactly why I said that I don't consider any West Coast QB to be great.

You win. I can't possibly argue at your level any longer.

 

[Prime Time]

Holmgren thinks Manziel would be too much like, well, Favre
Posted by Mike Florio on April 30, 2014

Earlier this month, former Packers and Seahawks coach Mike Holmgren shared with Peter King the thought processes that prompted Holmgren to once stick with a struggling Brett Favre.

But Holmgren, who likewise argued that teams in need of quarterbacks should select them high in the 2014 draft, seems to have real concerns about the incoming rookie quarterback whose playing style most closely resembles Favre’s.

A cover quote for the cover story on Johnny Manziel has Holmgren saying that Manziel is “too playground, too freelancey.”

It’s possible that the full context includes some positive remarks from Holmgren. If so, it’s arguably unfair to Holmgren (and to King, who wrote the story) to highlight the obviously negative portion of the assessment.

(And here’s a prime example of what it truly means to take something out of context. If, for example, Holmgren said, “At times I think he’s too playground, too freelancey, but like Favre, Manziel delivers,” Holmgren’s quotes will have been grossly taken out of context. If the four words appearing on the cover are fully consistent with Holmgren’s message, then it’s a fair quote.)

For now, with only the four words to go on, it’s curious to say the least that Holmgren would knock a guy who possibly could, with the right coaching, thrive like No. 4.

“I went down, thought about it, called [Favre] in the next morning, told him he was the guy,” Holmgren previously said about the time that he decided to stick with Favre over benching him for Mark Brunell. “I told [Favre], ‘We’re either going to the top of the mountain together or we’re going to the dumpster together. But we’re in this together.’ That’s what you have to do. I’m convinced of it. Absolutely convinced.”

Fine. They why give up on Manziel before someone has a chance to make that same commitment to him? It doesn’t make any sense, especially in light of a personal experience that gave Holmgren the only Super Bowl ring he won as a head coach or high-level executive.