Jared Goff: "I promise you guys it will get fixed. Everything in my heart and soul."

[dieterbrock]

For the entire game??

No, you asked what plays could be run to help with his confidence
Similarly, Newton didn't run the ball 40 times a game either
But to the point, they could have ran the offense based on Goff strength, which they didn't. Strangely though, Keenum played from the shotgun at a much higher % of snaps than Goff

 

[Dxmissile]

No, you asked what plays could be run to help with his confidence
Similarly, Newton didn't run the ball 40 times a game either
But to the point, they could have ran the offense based on Goff strength, which they didn't. Strangely though, Keenum played from the shotgun at a much higher % of snaps than Goff

Because they trusted Keenum to understand where the blitz was coming from how to hit a hot read those are the things Goff had no idea on how to do. It's easy to say simplify the offense but where do you start because with Goff it was more mental then anything he had to actually learn how to do these things it's not something he already had a foundation in

 

[dieterbrock]

Because they trusted Keenum to understand where the blitz was coming from how to hit a hot read those are the things Goff had no idea on how to do. It's easy to say simplify the offense but where do you start because with Goff it was more mental then anything he had to actually learn how to do these things it's not something he already had a foundation in

You're saying its harder to hit a hot read from shot gun than a 5 step drop?? It's the other way around

 

[Dxmissile]

You're saying its harder to hit a hot read from shot gun than a 5 step drop?? It's the other way around

I don't know where you getting this 5 yard drop from. What I'm saying if he can't handle snaps from center it makes it harder to simplify the playbook. What down to teams mostly blitz on 3rd down and the team is in shotgun it's harder in shotgun because of the disguises and QB have to know who is blitzing and when. That's hard for any QB but especially hard on a guy that never had to read defenses in college. When you are under center it could be run or pass a quick 3 step drop on a hot read will beat a blitz any day. You just have to know where to go with the ball and that was Goff main problem and did you really want him in shotgun with this oline

 

[LACHAMP46]

The point was, Newton did not have a passing resume from college yet there he was beasting it on opening day

Because he ran a run-based offense from Auburn. Who knows what he ran in JuCo? He could obviously throw the ball....Just like the QB's from passing college teams (Goff), can't seem to find receivers. It's not what you did in college per se...rather, what do you project to be able to do in the pros? It's why they draft projects...Wentz was a projection...He looked like he could do this or that. I remember Troy Aikmen...He came from some form of wishbone at Oklahoma..then went to UCLA after breaking some bone...Projected to be a pretty good pro, on limited throws. We don't need to go back...lets go on what we know...the 2016 season.

 

[tomas]

10 years ago every QB needed 3 years to develop (1970s -1980s QBs spent FIVE years with a clip board learning the NFL game). .. It’s only recently that we’ve asked 22-23 yo kids to shoulder the burden of 30-40 M$ contacts and the fate of a team.

 

[dieterbrock]

Because he ran a run-based offense from Auburn. Who knows what he ran in JuCo? He could obviously throw the ball....Just like the QB's from passing college teams (Goff), can't seem to find receivers. It's not what you did in college per se...rather, what do you project to be able to do in the pros? It's why they draft projects...Wentz was a projection...He looked like he could do this or that. I remember Troy Aikmen...He came from some form of wishbone at Oklahoma..then went to UCLA after breaking some bone...Projected to be a pretty good pro, on limited throws. We don't need to go back...lets go on what we know...the 2016 season.

You're barking up the wrong tree here man. I am not knocking Newton, quite the contrary. He didn't throw the ball as much and certainly not from any type of offense that resembled a pro set. If anyone had an excuse for "not being ready" it was him. But game 1 he throws for 4 hundo and then backs it up week 2 with another one. He struggled in pre-season just like many other rookies but was ready to go. Why? His coaches prepped him up for that start, gave a game plan that gave him successful opportunity.
That's what the good coaches do, and exceptional players (like Cam) take the ball and run with it
This isn't a Goff vs Newton debate, I take Cam over just about any QB in the league not named Rodgers

 

[dieterbrock]

I don't know where you getting this 5 yard drop from. What I'm saying if he can't handle snaps from center it makes it harder to simplify the playbook. What down to teams mostly blitz on 3rd down and the team is in shotgun it's harder in shotgun because of the disguises and QB have to know who is blitzing and when. That's hard for any QB but especially hard on a guy that never had to read defenses in college. When you are under center it could be run or pass a quick 3 step drop on a hot read will beat a blitz any day. You just have to know where to go with the ball and that was Goff main problem and did you really want him in shotgun with this oline

Case Keenum took less snaps from center, he primarily worked from the shot gun. Quick read and ball out. Play action, and hit some long ones.
In comes Goff and he's subjected to long developing plays from center and a 5 step drop. All the while the Oline is being shifted and craps the bed.
Yes, I would have preferred to see the offense tailored to Goff strength IE Quick read and ball out from shot gun
But the brain trust that is the Rams saw it otherwise and the results followed

 

[-X-]

Case Keenum took less snaps from center, he primarily worked from the shot gun. Quick read and ball out. Play action, and hit some long ones. In comes Goff and he's subjected to long developing plays from center and a 5 step drop.

Not true.
Keenum actually took a smaller percentage of snaps from the gun than Goff did.

Keenum:

Goff:

 

[jrry32]

Goff could do rollouts because the pocket moves with you but comparing that to what the redskins did for RG3 is craZy. Comparing Goff atheliticism to RG3 is crazy. Goff isn't an option QB never was not even in his ALL WORLD college career. What made the redskins so good was the threat of RG3 running so when he ran the option route the defense didn't know whether to stop him or Alfred Morris and you see that was Morris most successful year.

We used a lot of boots and roll-outs with Bradford when he was a rookie. He wasn't more athletic than Goff. They used those plays because it made Bradford's job easier. We couldn't really use those plays as effectively this year due to the lack of running game.

What made the Redskins so good that year was their ability to adjust the scheme to magnify the strengths of the QB playing in it.

His college system was first read throw. Doesn't mean that he didn't occasionally scan the field I never said he couldn't do it or didn't do it.

That's not correct. It was a progression-based system.

I said that you could maybe simplify things for the first year and get away with it but what about the 2nd yr the 3 rd year. It's easier to simplify things with a dual threat QB but by everyone admission Goff is a pocket passer it's kind of hard to simplify that especially since the guy never had snaps under center. Yeah they should have let him operate more outside of the pocket but Goff isn't a scrambler he isn't a runner so you risk him getting hurt. Now if you're talking about the play calls yeah they should have shorten that up but how do we know they didn't how do we know if they did and that's what allowed him to catch up.

What about the 2nd year and the 3rd year? He's no longer a rookie. You add to the offense and start to run the system at full freight because he has adjusted to the speed of NFL defenses and knows the verbiage.

It's not hard to simplify with a pocket passer. It's quite easy. You simplify the verbiage. You simplify the system as a whole. You focus on the plays that magnify his strengths and mask his weaknesses. You focus on running the system in a way that he can execute it before adding more to it.

You build on your offense as the season goes on instead of tossing him in the deep-end of the swimming pool and saying, "Swim."

Almost every other team has figured out how to do this. Andy Dalton and Joe Flacco were both pocket passers who came out of spread offenses.(as was Derek Carr) The Ravens and Bengals figured out how to make it work because they were willing to make concessions to make their rookie QB look good. Jeff Fisher did not.

 

[jrry32]

Not true.
Keenum actually took a smaller percentage of snaps from the gun than Goff did.

Keenum:

Goff:

I'm showing 77% for Keenum and 76% for Goff. Divide their shotgun snaps from their total attempts since there's obviously overlap between "Shotgun" and "Lone Setback."

 

[-X-]

I'm showing 77% for Keenum and 76% for Goff. Divide their shotgun snaps from their total attempts since there's obviously overlap between "Shotgun" and "Lone Setback."

I'm getting 47% (shotgun snaps) for Keenum, and 48.9% for Goff.
I won't speculate on the overlap. I'm going strictly by the figures.
Either way, there's no clear evidence that Goff had to take more snaps under center than Keenum.

 

[Dxmissile]

We not talking about their 2nd and 3rd year we where talking about their first yr. Like I said they was able to maximize RG3 potential because he added a running element to their offense not just a bootleg. You talk about simplifying verbiage but how do we know they didn't do that all we have is one quote of Goff not being able to learn the verbiage but we don't know if they dumb it down for him we just don't know. What are Goff strengths though?? What could the Rams done differently once Goff started playing what would make our system easier for Goff. Because now he has to learn a different system all together. He couldn't handle snaps from center he couldn't read defenses he has fumbling issues, what plays could we have done to simplify things for Goff that the defense wasn't going to be able to adjust to right away, he's not a threat to run the ball or is it just bootleg and throw to the flat all day is that it. I still believe that run the ball and playaction was the best bet it's just too bad we didn't have a oline that could pass or run block

 

[-X-]

What could the Rams done differently once Goff started playing what would make our system easier for Goff.

I'ts not necessarily a desired method, but they could have cut the field in half and given him more roll-outs. My issue with that is that you don't penalize the entire offense (by taking away a hefty portion of the playbook) to accommodate one guy. Unless that guy is heads and shoulders above every other QB on the roster in terms of cognitive abilities and arm talent. As of right now, it's surely debatable that Goff was ahead of even Keenum (or Mannion) in terms of QBI, even if he does have a better arm. That said, a better arm is only an asset if it's an accurate one.

 

[Mackeyser]

@FRO lets see how many people actually agree with this article.

I'll say it again, because that narrative really sounds now like some Fisher retcon BS.

AT THE TIME, Fisher through Mike Silver let it be known that FISHER was the smartest guy in the universe because HE was the one who saw this kid when he was this diamond in the rough he saw on this losing squad while watching a Cal game with his son who GOES to Cal.

So, right after the draft, Fisher feeds Silver this story about how Fisher has been following Goff for TWO YEARS.

Thus, the idea that Goff was "thrust" on him is nonsense.

What likely happened is this:

Fisher is Fisher. He refused to adapt his nightmarishly broken scheme to a rookie QB who was coached in college by a soft-spoken encourager type in Sonny Dykes. Fisher was completely enthralled by Goff's deep ball and pocket presence, but had NO CLUE about all the intangibles, like how the kid learns, the time to adapt to the new system, etc.

With the CBA, he can't get a head start with him.

Goff comes in and...LO AND BEHOLD... Goff's head is swimming. You all likely saw Hard Knocks. That wasn't exactly "encouragement"... He can't make heads or tails of our totally craptastic offense. Much like a car that barely runs where you have to manually pump the choke..."just because or it stalls"... this offense is like a Frankenstein monster with 3 arms and no legs... And one of the arms is barely long enough to qualify as an arm...

Keenum is used to piloting this abomination...enough that he at least can make it go forward...a little. Which in and of itself should be considered a minor miracle. We don't realize this until much later. All the while, on the outside, many think Goff is being dealt a terrible hand by not playing. Far from it. If Fisher's not going to change the offense, he's clearly needing every second. And it's not coming along super fast.

Fisher CLEARLY didn't account for Goff needing a full year or more to learn this horrible offense. Moreover, he CLEARLY didn't understand how historically bad this offense was (if only he'd read one of my many, many, many posts on it...)

And...toward the VERY end of the season...what do we see? We start to see sprinklings in the media, "Fisher didn't start Goff because he didn't want him, anyway".

Now...where would anyone get THAT idea...I wonder?

Maybe MISTER CoverMyAss Fisher-McPasstheBuck? (he drops the hyphenated last name for simplification purposes)

Sorry, one of two things HAS to be true.

Either Mike Silver was lying all along about Fisher and Goff (which given their relationship and how much he DIDN'T lie about so much seems incredibly unlikely) OR... Fisher tried to plant the seeds in the media to cover his butt with the fans and hope to create some doubt in case Goff doesn't succeed. If he does, Fisher can point back to the Silver stories. If not, he can point back to the "doubt rumors".

Not buying it.

Fisher was ALL IN on Goff from the beginning. Any story that says otherwise ignores what Fisher told Silver directly or what Fisher said directly.

Sorry...that stuff gets me. I'm just not letting him off the hook on this.

 

[jrry32]

We not talking about their 2nd and 3rd year we where talking about their first yr.

You explicitly asked about the 2nd and 3rd years. I answered your question.

Like I said they was able to maximize RG3 potential because he added a running element to their offense not just a bootleg. You talk about simplifying verbiage but how do we know they didn't do that all we have is one quote of Goff not being able to learn the verbiage but we don't know if they dumb it down for him we just don't know.

We know because they made it a point that they weren't going to do it. Plus, we heard the verbiage on Hard Knocks. We do know.

What are Goff strengths though?? What could the Rams done differently once Goff started playing what would make our system easier for Goff. Because now he has to learn a different system all together.

Quick release, movement in the pocket, intermediate and deep accuracy, timing throws, etc. The Rams couldn't have done anything differently once Goff started playing. They chose their path before the season started. That's the point.

They should have changed how they handled the process from the beginning.

He couldn't handle snaps from center he couldn't read defenses he has fumbling issues, what plays could we have done to simplify things for Goff that the defense wasn't going to be able to adjust to right away, he's not a threat to run the ball or is it just bootleg and throw to the flat all day is that it.

Taking snaps under center is easy to teach. All it takes is reps. Goff could have had that down quickly if the Rams made him starting from Day 1 a priority.

There are a lot of plays we could have used. There are a lot of ways we could have handled it. Andy Dalton, Joe Flacco, and Derek Carr. All pocket passers coming out of spread offenses. What did their teams do?

They played to their QB's strengths. They designed a scheme around their QB. Then again, that takes an offensive coaching staff that is actually competent, not something we had.

I still believe that run the ball and playaction was the best bet it's just too bad we didn't have a oline that could pass or run block

Yep, it is too bad.

I'm getting 47% (shotgun snaps) for Keenum, and 48.9% for Goff.
I won't speculate on the overlap. I'm going strictly by the figures.
Either way, there's no clear evidence that Goff had to take more snaps under center than Keenum.

You don't need to speculate on the overlap. Divide the attempts from the shotgun from the total attempts. If you add Shotgun to Lone Setback, you get a number of attempts greater than Goff's number of attempts on the season. That, alone, tells you that there is overlap. You account for the overlap by using total attempts as the denominator instead of (Shotgun + Lone Setback).

 

[-X-]

You don't need to speculate on the overlap. Divide the attempts from the shotgun from the total attempts. If you add Shotgun to Lone Setback, you get a number of attempts greater than Goff's number of attempts on the season. That, alone, tells you that there is overlap. You account for the overlap by using total attempts as the denominator instead of (Shotgun + Lone Setback).

100%/x%=319(total snaps)/156(attempts from shotgun)
(100/x)*x=(319/156)*x
100=2.0448717948718*x
100/2.0448717948718=x
48.902821316614=x
x=48.902821316614

Now, can we just focus on the comment that Keenum somehow had the luxury of taking most of his snaps from shotgun, whereas Goff was forced to take 5 steps drops from under center? It's false. We can debate the math forever if you like, but the statement is false. They both had nearly an equal *percentage* of snaps from shotgun. That's the result of play design.

 

[jrry32]

100%/x%=319(total snaps)/156(attempts from shotgun)
(100/x)*x=(319/156)*x
100=2.0448717948718*x
100/2.0448717948718=x
48.902821316614=x
x=48.902821316614

Now, can we just focus on the comment that Keenum somehow had the luxury of taking most of his snaps from shotgun, whereas Goff was forced to take 5 steps drops from under center? It's false. We can debate the math forever if you like, but the statement is false. They both had nearly an equal *percentage* of snaps from shotgun. That's the result of play design.

Yea. It is. I was only pointing out flaws in your math, Mr. Grumpypants.

 

[Dxmissile]

I'ts not necessarily a desired method, but they could have cut the field in half and given him more roll-outs. My issue with that is that you don't penalize the entire offense (by taking away a hefty portion of the playbook) to accommodate one guy. Unless that guy is heads and shoulders above every other QB on the roster in terms of cognitive abilities and arm talent. As of right now, it's surely debatable that Goff was ahead of even Keenum (or Mannion) in terms of QBI, even if he does have a better arm. That said, a better arm is only an asset if it's an accurate one.

Exactly that's what I'm saying it's not as simple as people think and if you cut half the field the defense is surely to pick up on that so basically you keep switching keep trying to find something to the point nothing works

 

[-X-]

Yea. It is. I was only pointing out flaws in your math, Mr. Grumpypants.

Huh? I gave you the formula for calculating percentage.
In other words, I showed my work.
Where's my gold star?