Hypothetical Trade: Franchise QB?

[had]

First, I would just like to say that I am making meatballs as I type this, and the meatballs take precedence over all football matters at this time. The meatballs will be ready in roughly 5 minutes, at which time I am going to over eat and make myself happy. That has nothing to do with this post, I realize, but it is relevant because I'm somewhat rushed.

Regardless, the answer, for me, is no. No to Eli Manning. No to Roethlisberger. They're both getting long in the tooth, and 1) Eli Manning cannot carry a team, as is evidenced by this season, and 2) Roethlisberger is a sau. I admire Roethlisberger when I see him avoiding the rush. Otherwise, not so much.

It's funny. Bradford misses a TD pass to Pettis and now he sucks. That may be over simplifying things, but it's not a fair shake. Bradford did miss that pass, by the way, and I think that anyone blaming Pettis is way off mark. Pettis was [here]. Bradford threw the ball [there]. Bradford is looking at Pettis. Pettis isn't going to get to where the ball was thrown. How can you say Pettis is in the wrong spot? Even if he was, it doesn't matter. He was right there. Mama mia.

But I don't go for this whole Bradford's not gonna make it 'thing'. He's got the tools. He's not a hot mess. He threw some balls out there that should have been picked but weren't, but I'm sure he was told to open it up and trust his receivers, and I'm confident part of his frustration was that this advice didn't work out.

Manning could never carry this team. Rot, maybe could do better. One thing -- Rot could definitely avoid the rush better. The only thing I don't like about Sam is that he folds up like a flower when he's grabbed. That is irritating.

Okay that's it. Peace, b*tches.


EDIT: I left the meatballs too long and they burned a little on one side. Freakin' dam*it. All for this post, which will go unnoticed in a sea of b*tching.

 

[Rabid Ram]

Hypothetical on top of a hypothetical

And Manning is the GOAT...so no, it's not a shot at Sam that Manning could get it done here. But lets not act like there's no QB in the NFL that could succeed on this team. I also bet if we had Manning, the play-calling would seem a lot better.(mainly because Schotty wouldn't be calling the plays)

So Yea maybe the goat could do it but how many others really?

And I agree with the team being better of with shotty not calling the plays. His scheme is uninspired and lacks misdirection and under utleizes his talent

 

[Angry Ram]

Not talking down just pointing out the pointlessness (yes I did that on purpose) of topics like these. Only b/c of 2 bad games...and really 1 bad game by Sam himself.

It makes zero sense on any level. The Rams wouldn't do it, those teams wouldn't do it. So why even bring up something like this?

Don't like the question, then don't post in the thread. The question is aimed at whether people think the situation is hopeless(no QB can succeed) or if they believe that another talented signal caller could succeed here. It's also examining whether they believe it's worth that sort of risk to get a potential franchise QB or if they believe Sam is still a potential franchise QB.

Last I checked I can post my opinion on w/e thread that's here. I don't like the question you are right, and I think only came up just b/c of 1 horrible game. Sam was a major reason why this team had high expectations and one bad game doesn't warrant IMO stuff like this. Again, it's just pointless to me.

If Peyton Manning came here the first thing he would do is demand someone get that clown (Schotty) out of here.

So yeah Manning would Succeed.

Unfortunately Bradford doesn't have the same Clout to make such demands.

Yeah b/c players do that all the time. C'mon now this board is better than this.

 

[jrry32]

Last I checked I can post my opinion on w/e thread that's here. I don't like the question you are right, and I think only came up just b/c of 1 horrible game. Sam was a major reason why this team had high expectations and one bad game doesn't warrant IMO stuff like this. Again, it's just pointless to me.

You can do whatever you want. But if you think a thread is pointless...why waste your time posting in it? So you can talk down to people and tell them how pointless you think it is? Sorry but I don't find that helpful.

Like I said, if you don't like the question...you don't have to post. I don't find comments telling me how "pointless this thread is" to be part of a constructive, respectful conversation.

If you want to talk about why you don't share my opinion. That's fine. I'd love to hear it. I'd love to talk about Sam Bradford with you...or Eli...or Roethlisberger. But telling me this is a pointless thread adds nothing to the conversation and begs the question "why are you posting here if you think it is so pointless" because you're certainly not contributing to the thread.

And I mean no offense by any of this. You have the right to post where you want to but having the right doesn't mean you should disrespect a person because you don't agree with them.

As far as Bradford, I disagree. It's not just the two bad games. It's things that I expected to see progression on that he's just not progressing...hell...it seems like he's regressing in certain aspects. And the supporting cast shoulders some of the blame but so does Bradford.

I am worried that his development has stalled and that it won't be able to pick-up here.

Hypothetical on top of a hypothetical

And Manning is the GOAT...so no, it's not a shot at Sam that Manning could get it done here. But lets not act like there's no QB in the NFL that could succeed on this team. I also bet if we had Manning, the play-calling would seem a lot better.(mainly because Schotty wouldn't be calling the plays)

So Yea maybe the goat could do it but how many others really?

And I agree with the team being better of with shotty not calling the plays. His scheme is uninspired and lacks misdirection and under utleizes his talent

I'd say:
-Peyton
-Brady
-Rodgers
-Ben
-Brees
-Romo

There are a few others that are debatable imo.

 

[Thordaddy]

OK so now Bradfprd has to be as good as Manning in yr.15 or he should be trade bait?

Manning is his own OC if we must compare Sam to Manning then make whoever you want to trade for be compared to him as well

 

[HometownBoy]

I can't even pick, since I know the trade is so absurd the GMs would laugh us straight out of the building.

 

[jrry32]

OK so now Bradfprd has to be as good as Manning in yr.15 or he should be trade bait?

Manning is his own OC if we must compare Sam to Manning then make whoever you want to trade for be compared to him as well

Can we just give Manning a head-set and make him our OC?

 

[WvuIN02]

Ben has the worst OL in football, and still puts up huge numbers because he is strong in the pocket. By far the best choice there.

You could still make a SB run with him as he is in his early 30s. He also is one of the top deep ball throwers in the NFL, as bad as the Steelers offense has been he is still #1 in the NFL with throws over 20 yards this year.

 

[Ram Quixote]

jrry, I can tell you why this subject is pointless. Mostly because it validates an opinion in which Bradford had more than 1 bad game.

Here's what has happened over the first 4 games.

Arizona -- Bradford completed over 70% of his passes and engineered a 4th quarter comeback, despite 2 very damaging turnovers.
At this point, teams now have film on the Rams offense and begin to scheme for it.

Atlanta -- Bradford and the offense struggles in the first half, but make a game of it.
Cook was pretty much eliminated as a threat in this game. The running game limped along, but you could see the struggles beginning.

Dallas -- Protection breakdowns and an ineffective running game, as well as what suddenly seemed to be a predictable game plan. Bradford did what he could, but he got pounded.
Whatever scheming the Rams were doing on offense is utterly apparent to everyone.

SF -- Bradford's accuracy is nearly non-existent.
By this time, defenses know how, when and where regarding the Rams' playcalling.

It seems to me the decreasing effectiveness of Bradford is a product of defenses catching up quickly to whatever the Rams try on offense. I don't see how much of any of this is on Bradford.

Btw, Manning might find a way to succeed with this personnel, but not those others.

-Brady isn't the same if his protection isn't there.
-Rodgers had his growing pains when his receiver core was young.
-Ben is having trouble now, with a team that has much better depth on the Oline.
-Brees is in a high-powered offense. Drop him into this situation?
-Romo is, IMO, as inconsistent as Bradford right now, with less of an upside.

 

[jrry32]

jrry, I can tell you why this subject is pointless. Mostly because it validates an opinion in which Bradford had more than 1 bad game.

Here's what has happened over the first 4 games.

Arizona -- Bradford completed over 70% of his passes and engineered a 4th quarter comeback, despite 2 very damaging turnovers.
At this point, teams now have film on the Rams offense and begin to scheme for it.

Atlanta -- Bradford and the offense struggles in the first half, but make a game of it.
Cook was pretty much eliminated as a threat in this game. The running game limped along, but you could see the struggles beginning.

Dallas -- Protection breakdowns and an ineffective running game, as well as what suddenly seemed to be a predictable game plan. Bradford did what he could, but he got pounded.
Whatever scheming the Rams were doing on offense is utterly apparent to everyone.

SF -- Bradford's accuracy is nearly non-existent.
By this time, defenses know how, when and where regarding the Rams' playcalling.

It seems to me the decreasing effectiveness of Bradford is a product of defenses catching up quickly to whatever the Rams try on offense. I don't see how much of any of this is on Bradford.

Btw, Manning might find a way to succeed with this personnel, but not those others.

-Brady isn't the same if his protection isn't there.
-Rodgers had his growing pains when his receiver core was young.
-Ben is having trouble now, with a team that has much better depth on the Oline.
-Brees is in a high-powered offense. Drop him into this situation?
-Romo is, IMO, as inconsistent as Bradford right now, with less of an upside.

I don't entirely disagree with your reasoning...but I can't possibly agree with the bold. Especially Romo being as inconsistent as Sam. Simply not true.

 

[moklerman]

I'd say:
-Peyton
-Brady
-Rodgers
-Ben
-Brees
-Romo

There are a few others that are debatable imo.

I'd debate you on Brady as it stands right now. Brady's barely outplaying Bradford right now so I don't think he'd do better with a much worse o-line and a Schottenheimer scheme.

 

[bluecoconuts]

He would. And that's not a shot at Sam. Peyton Manning is very arguably the GOAT. But it seems as if we exaggerate the circumstances to deflect blame from Sam. Yes, it's a very tough situation. Yes, his supporting cast hasn't played up to par. But at the same time, has he played up to par?

It's a team game...yes. But you can still analyze individual performances.

I agree that Manning is quite possibly the GOAT, but part of that is having an offense that fits his need. Our coaches know that Bradford can run the no huddle, but they don't want to use it. The playbook is filled with uninspired plays, so Manning would be told not to use the no huddle and would have a few shitty plays to change to, and with poor pass protection and no run game? He'd get killed, he's not nearly as athletic as Bradford is.

Now if Manning came in and got a new offense and they allowed him to run it to his strength, then yeah he'd succeed.. But they would be different circumstances.

I think Sam has done the best he can do at this point. Again with the youngest team, no skill player on the team for more than 3 years, poor pass protection, and no run game, he's leading the 12th best passing offense in the league. Now what if he had a run game, and a better coordinator to call plays? I bet he'd be doing even better. Sam can improve, he always can, and he needs to improve, but we need to put him in a position to succeed. We did it last year and he set career highs. We've taken that away this year and he's regressing.

So I stand by my statement that no QB could succeed with the circumstances that Bradford has. Some of the greats like Manning could probably succeed with the players that Bradford has with a better offense, but who says Bradford couldn't do that as well?



And I'm not trying to just shit on you or anything, I just disagree with the premise, or the idea that Bradford is the problem at this point.

 

[bluecoconuts]

OK so now Bradfprd has to be as good as Manning in yr.15 or he should be trade bait?

Manning is his own OC if we must compare Sam to Manning then make whoever you want to trade for be compared to him as well

Can we just give Manning a head-set and make him our OC?

I'm about ready to beg Faulk to be our OC. I'd bet he'd be a great one.

 

[jrry32]

He would. And that's not a shot at Sam. Peyton Manning is very arguably the GOAT. But it seems as if we exaggerate the circumstances to deflect blame from Sam. Yes, it's a very tough situation. Yes, his supporting cast hasn't played up to par. But at the same time, has he played up to par?

It's a team game...yes. But you can still analyze individual performances.

I agree that Manning is quite possibly the GOAT, but part of that is having an offense that fits his need. Our coaches know that Bradford can run the no huddle, but they don't want to use it. The playbook is filled with uninspired plays, so Manning would be told not to use the no huddle and would have a few crappy plays to change to, and with poor pass protection and no run game? He'd get killed, he's not nearly as athletic as Bradford is.

Frankly, I don't think there's a chance in heck that Manning would let Schottenheimer handcuff him. Maybe it's time Sam stands up and says the buck stops here. I will take the blame but I want the ability to do what I do best.

 

[bluecoconuts]

He would. And that's not a shot at Sam. Peyton Manning is very arguably the GOAT. But it seems as if we exaggerate the circumstances to deflect blame from Sam. Yes, it's a very tough situation. Yes, his supporting cast hasn't played up to par. But at the same time, has he played up to par?

It's a team game...yes. But you can still analyze individual performances.

I agree that Manning is quite possibly the GOAT, but part of that is having an offense that fits his need. Our coaches know that Bradford can run the no huddle, but they don't want to use it. The playbook is filled with uninspired plays, so Manning would be told not to use the no huddle and would have a few crappy plays to change to, and with poor pass protection and no run game? He'd get killed, he's not nearly as athletic as Bradford is.

Frankly, I don't think there's a chance in heck that Manning would let Schottenheimer handcuff him. Maybe it's time Sam stands up and says the buck stops here. I will take the blame but I want the ability to do what I do best.

I don't think Manning would either, but I still think that changes things. Manning can get away with that sort of thing because he's Manning. Bradford isn't experienced enough to get away with that. However for Manning to be able to get to that level he had to be given an offense that he excelled in.

 

[jrry32]

He would. And that's not a shot at Sam. Peyton Manning is very arguably the GOAT. But it seems as if we exaggerate the circumstances to deflect blame from Sam. Yes, it's a very tough situation. Yes, his supporting cast hasn't played up to par. But at the same time, has he played up to par?

It's a team game...yes. But you can still analyze individual performances.

I agree that Manning is quite possibly the GOAT, but part of that is having an offense that fits his need. Our coaches know that Bradford can run the no huddle, but they don't want to use it. The playbook is filled with uninspired plays, so Manning would be told not to use the no huddle and would have a few crappy plays to change to, and with poor pass protection and no run game? He'd get killed, he's not nearly as athletic as Bradford is.

Frankly, I don't think there's a chance in heck that Manning would let Schottenheimer handcuff him. Maybe it's time Sam stands up and says the buck stops here. I will take the blame but I want the ability to do what I do best.

I don't think Manning would either, but I still think that changes things. Manning can get away with that sort of thing because he's Manning. Bradford isn't experienced enough to get away with that. However for Manning to be able to get to that level he had to be given an offense that he excelled in.

Why? What are they going to do? Bench him and start Kellen Clemens?

 

[Ram Quixote]

jrry, I can tell you why this subject is pointless. Mostly because it validates an opinion in which Bradford had more than 1 bad game.

Here's what has happened over the first 4 games.

Arizona -- Bradford completed over 70% of his passes and engineered a 4th quarter comeback, despite 2 very damaging turnovers.
At this point, teams now have film on the Rams offense and begin to scheme for it.

Atlanta -- Bradford and the offense struggles in the first half, but make a game of it.
Cook was pretty much eliminated as a threat in this game. The running game limped along, but you could see the struggles beginning.

Dallas -- Protection breakdowns and an ineffective running game, as well as what suddenly seemed to be a predictable game plan. Bradford did what he could, but he got pounded.
Whatever scheming the Rams were doing on offense is utterly apparent to everyone.

SF -- Bradford's accuracy is nearly non-existent.
By this time, defenses know how, when and where regarding the Rams' playcalling.

It seems to me the decreasing effectiveness of Bradford is a product of defenses catching up quickly to whatever the Rams try on offense. I don't see how much of any of this is on Bradford.

Btw, Manning might find a way to succeed with this personnel, but not those others.

-Brady isn't the same if his protection isn't there.
-Rodgers had his growing pains when his receiver core was young.
-Ben is having trouble now, with a team that has much better depth on the Oline.
-Brees is in a high-powered offense. Drop him into this situation?
-Romo is, IMO, as inconsistent as Bradford right now, with less of an upside.

I don't entirely disagree with your reasoning...but I can't possibly agree with the bold. Especially Romo being as inconsistent as Sam. Simply not true.

Careful. Statistics and performance are subjective. There are no absolutes. I don't insist on my opinion. Romo gets a lot of flack he doesn't deserve, but some of it is self-inflicted.

 

[bluecoconuts]

He would. And that's not a shot at Sam. Peyton Manning is very arguably the GOAT. But it seems as if we exaggerate the circumstances to deflect blame from Sam. Yes, it's a very tough situation. Yes, his supporting cast hasn't played up to par. But at the same time, has he played up to par?

It's a team game...yes. But you can still analyze individual performances.

I agree that Manning is quite possibly the GOAT, but part of that is having an offense that fits his need. Our coaches know that Bradford can run the no huddle, but they don't want to use it. The playbook is filled with uninspired plays, so Manning would be told not to use the no huddle and would have a few crappy plays to change to, and with poor pass protection and no run game? He'd get killed, he's not nearly as athletic as Bradford is.

Frankly, I don't think there's a chance in heck that Manning would let Schottenheimer handcuff him. Maybe it's time Sam stands up and says the buck stops here. I will take the blame but I want the ability to do what I do best.

I don't think Manning would either, but I still think that changes things. Manning can get away with that sort of thing because he's Manning. Bradford isn't experienced enough to get away with that. However for Manning to be able to get to that level he had to be given an offense that he excelled in.

Why? What are they going to do? Bench him and start Kellen Clemens?

If it works, but what if it doesn't. It just sends a bad message to revolt against the coaches publicly like that.

Trust me, I want Bradford to tell Schotty to fuck off and run the no huddle too, but he just can't.

 

[jrry32]

Careful. Statistics and performance are subjective. There are no absolutes. I don't insist on my opinion. Romo gets a lot of flack he doesn't deserve, but some of it is self-inflicted.

Yep, they are. But I just have a hard time seeing a case being made for Romo being as inconsistent as Sam. Doesn't seem like a fair criticism of Romo.

If it works, but what if it doesn't. It just sends a bad message to revolt against the coaches publicly like that.

Trust me, I want Bradford to tell Schotty to freak off and run the no huddle too, but he just can't.

Don't do it publicly. Do it behind closed doors. He can. I would be the last person to root for this type of thing but it's clear that Schotty isn't getting it. Somebody has to stand up.

 

[Mojo Ram]

I wouldn't make either trade and not because i'm in love with Sam Bradford(because i'm not).
No way in hell am i trading away a 1st rd pick for an old Roethlisberger who could probably do some nice things but will be put out to pasture soon.

I like Eli over Big old Ben...but there's the matter of giving up one of our two 1st rd picks,which i wouldn't part with without getting an impact, younger proven veteran in return.