Goff showed me alot against Arizona

[Rmfnlt]

He's played only seven games and some are calling him a bust? None of us really know what kind of environment this kid was subjected to each day under this dysfunctional organization. I would suggest to some of you to hold judgement whether he has what it takes to play in the NFL until you see what a good OC and QB coach can do with him. Add to it a improved O-Line and then if he still under-performs you can make those statements. He was doomed with Weinke as his QB coach, and Boras as the OC. We all know the issues with the bad O-Line and poor receiver performance with dropped balls, but to say a 22-year old is a bust, all I can say is WOW. Those thinking he is a bust are arm-chair QBs to say the least.

Yup!

To say he is or isn't going to make it in the NFL at this stage is... well, interesting.

 

[-X-]

I get the point you keep trying to make :deadhorse:

But i'm not sure you are taking into account the fact Goff played with thr second team in training camp and throughout the season while Keenum rolled with the ones. Where does that fit into the evaluation of thise stats? Or is your desire to rectify the dislike for Keenum and keep beating it down our necks that won't take that into account?

When Goff was inserted as starter - the season was officially over -- remember? Fisher said as much. "We won't insert Goff until we are out of the playoffs." Remember? So when he was put in it was with less than half the season left with a Coach who officially declared the season over to try and build chemistry with guys for the first time. it's apples and apples but not really when you consider the situations each player was given under this regime.

I'm sure when Keenum ends up on another roster next year, possibly the Winnipeg Blue Bombers, and Goff is leading our team to the playoffs you will be revisiting the KEENUM FILES, but until then

In the meantime Keenum is a cool dude, we wish him luck in his future endeavors and thank him for his contributions to the Rams in 2016

All deflection.

 

[Zero]

Well, sure. I get that. I'm talking about the excuses Goff is afforded now. They weren't afforded to Keenum. I mean, crap, he got blasted for hitting Britt on a sideline pass in one game because - although complete - he didn't give Britt enough room to keep running because Britt ended up going out of bounds. Meanwhile Goff sails crap over receivers' heads by a quarter mile, and you don't hear a peep. Keenum gets sacked, and it's all "He has no pocket presence!" Goff gets sacked, and it's because the O-line is garbage. I'm not suggesting we compare the two either, and for all the reasons you gave. But I am suggesting that maybe a little acknowledgement be given to the idea that Keenum didn't have a world-class offense around *him* either.

I understand where you're coming from.I will be the first to admit that it would be difficult for ANY
QB to have success with situation as it was.Of course I don't recall railing too hard on Keenum either.
If I did it would have been out of frustration and impatience.High draft picks will always be afforded
more chances.Just the nature of the beast.Please forgive me if I am over stepping any bounds,
but maybe this is a little more personal than it should be.Just a thought.Cheers.

 

[-X-]

I understand where you're coming from.I will be the first to admit that it would be difficult for ANY
QB to have success with situation as it was.Of course I don't recall railing too hard on Keenum either.
If I did it would have been out of frustration and impatience.High draft picks will always be afforded
more chances.Just the nature of the beast.Please forgive me if I am over stepping any bounds,
but maybe this is a little more personal than it should be.Just a thought.Cheers.

I really don't wanna belabor the point on this. I was just throwing it out there and then responding to my notifications. But yeah, it's a little personal. I didn't really care for all the venom that was being spewed towards our QB while he was out there busting his ass, particularly when it came from people who were just Goff fan bois who were disappointed in the fact he was riding the pine for some inexplicable (now, completely understandable) reason. It's just a little weird seeing all of the excuses for the QB now, when there weren't any other possible reasons for our offensive struggle then. Allegedly, the only thing we needed to get the offense going (and in some cases, get into the playoffs) was a different QB. Taking in the comments now about how god-awful everyone else on the offense is, that notion is obviously and completely erroneous.

 

[Rmfnlt]

I really don't wanna belabor the point on this. I was just throwing it out there and then responding to my notifications. But yeah, it's a little personal. I didn't really care for all the venom that was being spewed towards our QB while he was out there busting his ass, particularly when it came from people who were just Goff fan bois who were disappointed in the fact he was riding the pine for some inexplicable (now, completely understandable) reason. It's just a little weird seeing all of the excuses for the QB now, when there weren't any other possible reasons for our offensive struggle then. Allegedly, the only thing we needed to get the offense going (and in some cases, get into the playoffs) was a different QB. Taking in the comments now about how god-awful everyone else on the offense is, that notion is obviously and completely erroneous.

Over the years, I've noticed how attached some fans become to certain players, right after they get drafted.

It can be the QB (a lot of times it is because of the stature of that position) or a WR, RB or whatever.

The fan builds a picture in their heads as to how the player will turn out. They convince themselves (well ahead of time) that the player is going to be a stud.

Once that impression is sown in the head, the fan goes about the business of letting everyone know how good the player is going to be.

The more "emotionally invested" (that is to say, the more the fan touts the player), the more inflexible the fan becomes to any criticism... even if it starts to be proven that their favorite player isn't going to be a stud.

I saw it with Bradford... and I've seen it with Austin and Quick... plenty of examples.

Now, I see it with Goff.

You're not going to get Goff fans to acknowledge that Goff struggled for many of the same reasons Keenum did.

It goes back to the emotional investment some fans have made in Goff already, whether warranted or not.

As a result, he will be given allowances that no other Rams player will get.

Personally, I'm more of a team fan... always have been. I do favor some players more than others but try not to get overly emotional about them... after all, they are likely to be moving on anyway.

 

[PowayRamFan]

I'm in full on "I'll believe it when I see it" mode in regards to everything Rams, including Goff.

 

[-X-]

That Arizona game might been our worst of the year. The o line didn't show up to play AGAIN ! I don't think I have ever seen a qb get hit like goff did but he kept getting up and he kept fighting . He needs alot of work this off-season and the right coaching staff to show him how to succeed but he is a tough sob and that's what this team needs .

Now I'll go ahead and address the OP, since that would be the non-derailing thing to do.

Yes, he did show some toughness and some moxy. My only fear is that he develops the same pensiveness Bradford developed later in his stint with the Rams. He got skittish in the pocket and started to hear footsteps. Lotta good analysts started commenting on that, and there was no denying it was happening. He started to check down too much and started to shorten his reads. Changing things up now is unfortunate, but it could be a blessing in disguise. Someone else with a better handle on designing plays to suit his strengths could help him to avoid what I just spoke of. Can't let him get to that point, because he's too talented. He has an uncanny ability to sense pressure, and he throws absolute strikes in the intermediate zones. Lotta good stuff to build on.

 

[OnceARam]

The reason I afford Goff leyway is because he is the future of the franchise.

It's apples to oranges to compare a veteran QB with physical limitations to a rookie with all the tools. It's a ceiling versus floor thing.

That said, I stopped watching the team play once the writing was on the wall with Fisher - after the Miami game.

Goff is following the same trajectory he took at Berkeley. I imagine we drafted him knowing that he had the mental resilience to make it through the first years of his career, which would be difficult.

In hindsight, we should have sat him all year. But I don't think anyone expected the wheels to completely fall off of the Fisher train. Had we stayed above .500 this year, as expected, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

It's a team game. We built around Keenum this year. Our offensive philosophy was geared to his skill set. I imagine that we expected to have a run game though and that was our ultimate downfall. That's partly on Gurley and partly on the coaches for assuming that he would be the same player at a lighter weight.

Next season the team will be built around Goff and his potential.

And once we've found the right pieces to put around him there will no longer be a need to compare him to anyone.

He will be Goff. Just like Rodgers is Rodgers. Or Cutler is Cutler.

Point being; we haven't and won't know who Goff is until he has been built around. But, by all accounts, he is "one tough sob" who makes "wow" throws and "flashes" greatness.

We are in great position to win yet another off season!

 

[-X-]

Hahahaha

Deleting my posts

Guess i'll be banned for talking sports

Deleted mine too, so move on.

 

[-X-]

It's a team game. We built around Keenum this year. Our offensive philosophy was geared to his skill set. I imagine that we expected to have a run game though and that was our ultimate downfall. That's partly on Gurley and partly on the coaches for assuming that he would be the same player at a lighter weight.

I don't think we built around Keenum. Keenum was always going to be a place-holder until Goff came along, and we were throwing the ball pretty liberally while Keenum was in there. Mostly because the run game could never get on track. It was actually counter-intuitive to do that (throw a lot), but it was borne of necessity, so what can ya do? Honestly, I don't think any of us know how this team was built. Many have already suggested that it was just a hodge-podge of different kinds of athletes wedged into an offense that had no real identity. I imagine the main vision was to be a ground-n-pound offense, but that doesn't explain drafting guys like Austin or Goff to fit into it. I imagine there was always a leaning towards implementing a more conventional and balanced offense, but it seemed like the O was being pulled in two different directions. With Fisher gone and Snead (apparently) staying, maybe we'll see the vision a little more clear. Or he'll too be gone and we'll see something else entirely. It's a waiting game now.

 

[OnceARam]

I don't think we built around Keenum. Keenum was always going to be a place-holder until Goff came along, and we were throwing the ball pretty liberally while Keenum was in there. Mostly because the run game could never get on track. It was actually counter-intuitive to do that (throw a lot), but it was borne of necessity, so what can ya do? Honestly, I don't think any of us know how this team was built. Many have already suggested that it was just a hodge-podge of different kinds of athletes wedged into an offense that had no real identity. I imagine the main vision was to be a ground-n-pound offense, but that doesn't explain drafting guys like Austin or Goff to fit into it. I imagine there was always a leaning towards implementing a more conventional and balanced offense, but it seemed like the O was being pulled in two different directions. With Fisher gone and Snead (apparently) staying, maybe we'll see the vision a little more clear. Or he'll too be gone and we'll see something else entirely. It's a waiting game now.

Yes, it's a quagmire at this point.

Hoping that the new administration comes in with a clear strategy and the resolve to execute it.

And I'm wishing that it entails an Air Coreal (sp?) like identity because I believe we have the QB to do it.

 

[-X-]

Yes, it's a quagmire at this point.

[av]http://www.soundboard.com/mediafiles/nt/NTAwODMwMjYyNTAwOTM1_vqyoJ7tt_2fsg.MP3[/av]

 

[bubbaramfan]

Dieter and -X- :boxing: ?

 

[RAMNATION]

Maybe we can cut Keenum some slack now. Played behind the same O-line, with the same receivers, led by the same offensive coordinator, against the same level of competition, with roughly the same amount of sacks. Maybe he doesn't suck as hard as people think, because if we're going to give Goff a blanket pass for his production due to his playing with crap and behind crap, then we can easily afford to do the same for Keenum.

thank you that's a real eye opener. I did not know that the numbers gap was that big.

I was really really anti-Keenum, and still is. I felt that the offense was tailored for his skill set. it seemed like the whole offense was designed to get exactly 10 yards (yeah Quick and Britt had a few big plays, but not nearly enough to convince a D to feel threatened). all the short passes and horizontal mumbo jumbo was Keenum's comfort zone. we changed nothing then inserted Goff (oh yeah we simplified it for the Miami game) The CB's were beating the WR's to the spots on all those comeback routes and we stuck with it. but I will agree its hard to tell where the line on the offensive mess is drawn between Keenum and Fisher (to be forever referred to as "He who shall not be named"). So for me, The numbers are lying.

 

[Hey Man]

That Arizona game might been our worst of the year. The o line didn't show up to play AGAIN ! I don't think I have ever seen a qb get hit like goff did but he kept getting up and he kept fighting . He needs alot of work this off-season and the right coaching staff to show him how to succeed but he is a tough sob and that's what this team needs .

I guess you never seen the Bulger years, luckily he had top flight WRs

 

[12intheBox]

There was clearly a double standard between Goff and Keenum. It turned out that neither were very good this year and that they were both surrounded by players who also weren't very good and playing in a scheme that was completely inept. When Keenum was out there and we sucked we just had to see what was behind the red curtain. When we saw what was back there and we still sucked, we knew it hasn't been all Case's fault after all.

 

[PARAM]

I'm not ready to give up on Goff, paint the Rams as screwed as long as he's our QB or worry about next year. This team needs development everywhere. I don't mean to suggest they lack talent, just that the talent hasn't developed yet. The O line, the secondary, the wide receivers and the QB need improvement. Under a different coaching staff that might just be expedited more efficiently than under Fisher & Co. We'll see.

 

[den-the-coach]

give Goff an OL that gives him time, he'll be just fine.

Hope you're right because right now I don't see it.

 

[HE WITH HORNS]

How exactly?
Please elaborate for those of us who aren't so enlightened

We gave up WAY too much to get him. We used last years first round pick, and this years, which would have been what, #3 overall? Plus several other picks.

And I like to see some fire from a QB, Goff just looks like he doesn't care or he's stoned half the time.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Maybe we can cut Keenum some slack now. Played behind the same O-line, with the same receivers, led by the same offensive coordinator, against the same level of competition, with roughly the same amount of sacks. Maybe he doesn't suck as hard as people think, because if we're going to give Goff a blanket pass for his production due to his playing with crap and behind crap, then we can easily afford to do the same for Keenum.

Keenum is a five or six year vet with starts over those years. I know the offense is bad, but they didn't show up the last few games. I think we have seen Keenum's ceiling.