Fitzy Anyone?

[NJRamsFan]

Well maybe I should be getting paid for them stealing my material because I didn't watch anything they said.

Only time will tell on Goff

So what is it about Goff that leads you to the conclusion hes not that good? What skills/characteristics is he lacking to lead you to believe he isnt worth trading up for?

Of course only time will tell im just wondering what you see that perhaps maybe im missing cause I see a star. And as far as him being better off sitting a year I believe every single quarterback coming into the league could benefit from sitting and learning a la Aaron Rodgers. Doesnt really mean much though.

 

[BigRamFan]

Yep, they do. It would be the definition of a smart pick. Because they're not foolishly sticking with Case Keenum and passing on talented QB prospects.

Okay, so what staring QB are ypu taking at 15? Because that was my argument, IMO, there is no QB worthy of the 15th pick who will be available at that point.

 

[snackdaddy]

I agree with those who think they need to draft a future franchise quarterback. But trying to make the playoffs with a rookie quarterback would be tough. Can Fisher afford to put a rookie out there knowing there will be some bumps in the road? Is the team good enough to offset the mistakes of a rookie quarterback? And who would that quarterback be? They would likely have to trade up for Goff or Lynch. Is a guy like Wentz or Cook starting material?

 

[jrry32]

Okay, so what staring QB are ypu taking at 15? Because that was my argument, IMO, there is no QB worthy of the 15th pick who will be available at that point.

There are four of them. One will be available.

 

[snackdaddy]

There are four of them. One will be available.

Goff and Lynch would likely be gone. Wentz or Cook should be available. I've seen some video on both of them. Cook might be more game ready from the start than Wentz. But Wentz looks to have more upside to me. He's got a strong arm. Release looks pretty quick. Athletic enough to make plays with his legs. But he plays against lesser competition. Its hard for me to judge how good he really is. Who's your preference?

 

[jrry32]

Goff and Lynch would likely be gone. Wentz or Cook should be available. I've seen some video on both of them. Cook might be more game ready from the start than Wentz. But Wentz looks to have more upside to me. He's got a strong arm. Release looks pretty quick. Athletic enough to make plays with his legs. But he plays against lesser competition. Its hard for me to judge how good he really is. Who's your preference?

I'll be happy with either. Don't have a preference. Might after the Senior Bowl.

 

[BigRamFan]

There are four of them. One will be available.

Four in your opinion that are worthy in the top15, 2 in mine, but both Goff and Lynch will be gone. No way I draft Cook or Wentz ar 15 with better players available. Cook maybe in a trade back but that requires apartner.

 

[HitStick]

Why draft Mason in the 3rd if you're going to draft Gurley in the top 10?

I kind of agree with you to an extent. This part, however, didn't need to be said. If there was, in this draft, a quarterback that was as good at quarterbacking as Todd Gurley is as a runningback, this wouldn't be a debate. Todd Gurley is a rookie probowler. It was pretty much guaranteed that if the knee checked out, he'd be a beast.

A QB like that is not in this draft. And if you want Lynch or Goff the Rams are going to have to give up some extra picks. Those picks might be needed depending on how we do during free agency.

 

[jrry32]

Four in your opinion that are worthy in the top15, 2 in mine, but both Goff and Lynch will be gone. No way I draft Cook or Wentz ar 15 with better players available. Cook maybe in a trade back but that requires apartner.

This is a ridiculous. If you're willing to take him in a trade back, there should be no issues taking him at #15. He's a QB.

If you don't think any QB but those guys are any good, you trade up. What you don't do is pretend you can get by with what we have at QB.

 

[jrry32]

I kind of agree with you to an extent. This part, however, didn't need to be said. If there was, in this draft, a quarterback that was as good at quarterbacking as Todd Gurley is as a runningback, this wouldn't be a debate. Todd Gurley is a rookie probowler. It was pretty much guaranteed that if the knee checked out, he'd be a beast.

A QB like that is not in this draft. And if you want Lynch or Goff the Rams are going to have to give up some extra picks. Those picks might be needed depending on how we do during free agency.

Point being that you upgrade when you have the chance. An unproven 3rd round pick doesn't stop you from taking a 1st round QB.

 

[HitStick]

Point being that you upgrade when you have the chance. An unproven 3rd round pick doesn't stop you from taking a 1st round QB.

They're all just as unproven as Mannion. At least Mannion has a "redshirt" year under his belt.

Wentz might have shown to be a first round QB had he played all year, but he didnt. Cook has proven that he can't complete a high percentage of passes in college, whats that mean for his chances in the pros?

To me it's just more overhype for the QB position. We see it every year. When Luck and RG3 came out, they both still would have been taken over all of these QBs, except with maybe Goff beating RG3. We're not getting Goff. You don't reach for a QB just because you don't have one when there are still PLENTY of positions that need upgrading.

 

[HitStick]

My case against Cook.

So, I looked up 4 previous drafts and their first round QB's completion percentages to see how that number translates to the pros. What I found was that that number drops quite a bit while making the jump to the big leagues. This has pushed Cook further down my list. Also, I excluded this last draft because I understand that there is an adjustment period.

Player - final year college completion % - Recent % - Career %

blake bortles 67.8 - 58.6 - 58.7
johnny manziel 69.9 - 57.8 - 57.0
teddy bridgewater 71.0 - 65.3 - 64.9

ej manuel 68.0 - 61.9 - 59.1

andrew luck 71.3 - 61.7 (in last full year) - 58.1
rg3 72.4 - 68.7 - 63.9
ryan tannehill 61.6 - 61.9 - 61.9
brandon weeden - 72.3 - 57.9

Cam Newton 66.1 - 59.8 - 59.6
Jake Locker 55.4 - 58.9 - 57.5 (Has never played in more than 11 games)
Blaine Gabbert 63.4 - 63.1 - 55.8

As you can see, most QBs complete at a lower percentage in the pros than their final year of college. There are two exceptions: Ryan Tannehill, and Jake Locker.

You'll notice that Jake Locker is the only QB taken in the last 5 drafts (4 shown) with a completion percentage in the 50's while in college. Jake Locker is also a bust. I also noticed that out of that list only 4 of them have played in a playoff game. Those are Teddy Bridgewater, Andrew Luck, RG3, and Cam Newton. All for have completed above 65% of their passes during their final year of college.

Also, note that Connor Cook's completion percentage has gone down ever year since he took over, going from 58.7, to 58.1, and finishing at 56.1.

Take from it what you will.

 

[blackbart]

So what is it about Goff that leads you to the conclusion hes not that good? What skills/characteristics is he lacking to lead you to believe he isnt worth trading up for?

Of course only time will tell im just wondering what you see that perhaps maybe im missing cause I see a star. And as far as him being better off sitting a year I believe every single quarterback coming into the league could benefit from sitting and learning a la Aaron Rodgers. Doesnt really mean much though.

I actually think he will be a decent player in about 3 or 4 years but not Tom Brady, Aaron Rogers, Peyton Manning good as some others have touted.

He has an above average arm but not a quick release like Dan Marino and not a cannon that can squeeze it in anywhere Bret Favre. He is not going to lead anyone to the playoffs in year 1 and THAT is what others expect out of him. If the Rams were to trade up to the #1 spot because that's what it would take, Cleveland is taking him at 2 it would cost 3 1st round picks+ and there is no player in the history of the NFL worth that kind of draft capitol.

So maybe it isn't that he isn't talented as much as he isn't worth what it would cast the Rams to trade up for him.

 

[jrry32]

They're all just as unproven as Mannion. At least Mannion has a "redshirt" year under his belt.

Wentz might have shown to be a first round QB had he played all year, but he didnt. Cook has proven that he can't complete a high percentage of passes in college, whats that mean for his chances in the pros?

To me it's just more overhype for the QB position. We see it every year. When Luck and RG3 came out, they both still would have been taken over all of these QBs, except with maybe Goff beating RG3. We're not getting Goff. You don't reach for a QB just because you don't have one when there are still PLENTY of positions that need upgrading.

I don't care about Mannion. If he's good, he'll earn the job.

Wentz is either a first rounder or he's not. And he is a first rounder. Him being injured doesn't change that. I don't care about Cook's completion percentage. Have already had that debate in the draft forum.

If the Rams don't take a first round QB or address it meaningfully prior to the draft, I'm out. Simple as that. I'm not rooting for a team that doesn't care about winning.

 

[HitStick]

I don't care about Mannion. If he's good, he'll earn the job.

Wentz is either a first rounder or he's not. And he is a first rounder. Him being injured doesn't change that. I don't care about Cook's completion percentage. Have already had that debate in the draft forum.

If the Rams don't take a first round QB or address it meaningfully prior to the draft, I'm out. Simple as that. I'm not rooting for a team that doesn't care about winning.

If you truly care about winning you don't reach for a QB like Cook in the first.

And what you said about Wentz is simply not true. Players grow so much in college. He surely wouldn't have been a 1st rounder last year. He needs those reps

 

[jrry32]

If you truly care about winning you don't reach for a QB like Cook in the first.

Well, I care about winning and I'd take Cook in the first. Don't care who calls it a reach. But you can stick with the same old guys that led the Rams to a 7-9 record and the worst QB play in the NFL. I will go watch a team that isn't content with mediocrity.

And what you said about Wentz is simply not true. Players grow so much in college. He surely wouldn't have been a 1st rounder last year. He needs those reps

Horsecrap. If you think Wentz isn't a first rounder, you need to have something more valid to offer than him being injured.

He surely wouldn't have been a first rounder last year? Baseless conjecture.

 

[HitStick]

Well, I care about winning and I'd take Cook in the first. Don't care who calls it a reach. But you can stick with the same old guys that led the Rams to a 7-9 record and the worst QB play in the NFL. I will go watch a team that isn't content with mediocrity.



Horsecrap. If you think Wentz isn't a first rounder, you need to have something more valid to offer than him being injured.

He surely wouldn't have been a first rounder last year? Baseless conjecture.

Well, I showed you stats on Cook and you ignored them. What good would showing you anything about Wentz do? You're just going to ignore it because you don't really care who the Rams pick as long as it's a QB...that's why teams fail. Thats why Blaine Gabberts, Jake Lockers, and Christian Ponders are taken in the first. Picking Cook would set this team back.

As far as Wentz goes, I never said he was going to be bad, I simply said he didn't show enough to warrant a first round projection. Tell me, how can a player jump from the 2nd round to the 1st round while sitting injured on the sideline? Oh I know, be a QB.

 

[jrry32]

Well, I showed you stats on Cook and you ignored them. What good would showing you anything about Wentz do? You're just going to ignore it because you don't really care who the Rams pick as long as it's a QB...that's why teams fail. Thats why Blaine Gabberts, Jake Lockers, and Christian Ponders are taken in the first. Picking Cook would set this team back.

Don't make assumptions. You showed me the stats on Cook? Awesome. I have watched over a season's worth of games of Cook in college. What are the stats going to tell me that I don't already know?

But even still, I didn't ignore the stats. I told you that I'm not getting into that debate again. Because it's already been discussed. I'll even link you to the threads:
http://ramsondemand.com/threads/ste...-60-college-qbs-in-the-nfl.41647/#post-671918
http://ramsondemand.com/threads/wentz-headed-to-sr-bowl.41503/page-4#post-685204

By the way, what do the bolded QBs all have in common aside from being busts? That I didn't have any of the three rated as first round prospects.

I'm not perfect at this but 8 of the 11 QBs that I rated as first round prospects since 2010 have not busted (yet). I rate Jared Goff, Paxton Lynch, Carson Wentz, and Connor Cook as first round QBs this year. So no, I don't just want a QB. I want a QB that I am high on. I do not want Hackenberg. I do not want Dak Prescott. I do not want Kevin Hogan. I want one of the four I named.

Do I recognize that the odds of all four panning out are stacked against me? Absolutely. But that's my evaluation and I'm sticking to it. Lynch and Wentz are the two riskiest picks but they're also the most physically talented. Goff is the safest pick and the best QB in this draft imo. Cook falls somewhere in between every label but I think he'll be a solid starting QB...a Jay Cutler/Eli Manning level passer.

As far as Wentz goes, I never said he was going to be bad, I simply said he didn't show enough to warrant a first round projection. Tell me, how can a player jump from the 2nd round to the 1st round while sitting injured on the sideline? Oh I know, be a QB.

Or it's because he's a first round talent. Not to mention the fact that he returned and played in the National Championship game.(and helped his team win it)

Tell me, how can a player jump from a 2nd round pick to a top 15 pick while not playing any games? Because Aaron Donald was rated as a 2nd round pick going into the off-season after his final year at Pitt by the media. Except it wasn't an accurate evaluation. Donald wasn't a 2nd round pick. He was always a first round talent. Wentz is a first round talent.(but obviously not a Donald level prospect)

Will he be a first round pick? We'll see after the Senior Bowl.

But again, you haven't given me any specific criticisms of Wentz. Have you evaluated him?

 

[Dagonet]

I'd seriously look at Chase Daniel of KC. He's scheduled to be a FA this year no? He's done well in the backup role there. Just saying.

 

[jrry32]

I'd seriously look at Chase Daniel of KC. He's scheduled to be a FA this year no? He's done well in the backup role there. Just saying.

I agree. As a stop gap. But that would mean letting Keenum go. Seems like most people on this board are opposed to that.