Drafting a QB

[jrry32]

I don't think I would. I know it sounds crazy because they are talented. But giving up the chance for 3 first round talents and a second to get them? I don't think there is anyone THAT talented.

Look at our roster. How many first round picks do we have? Yet, are we in the playoffs? Are we going to have a winning season? What is standing in that way?

First round picks are extremely valuable...but they don't come close to the value of a true top tier QB. If we had one of those guys on our team this year, we'd be in the playoffs, we likely win our division, and we are legitimate contender for the Super Bowl.(as long as they didn't suffer from the Rams curse and end up on IR)

No other position can do that. A top tier QB changes the game. We go from a team that can't get over the hump to a Super Bowl contender and we remain a contender for the foreseeable future. Unless we get ourselves a top tier QB with that pick, we're not going to get anything close to that out of a first round pick. And the real problem is that the more talent we add, the more guys we have to pay.

Which isn't a problem until you reach the end of their rookie deals and you have never made the playoffs despite having the talent to do so because of your problems at QB.

Look, I don't buy into the media narrative that QBs are everything. But they are BY FAR the most important player on the team and they do have the ability to drastically change a team's fortunes.

The Rams need a franchise QB. We get one and we're a legitimate contender. Without one, we're an average to above average team.

 

[Athos]

Keeping picks hasn't gotten us anywhere in the win column.

Our roster is filling out. It's time to take the plunge in getting serious talent at QB or all those picks won't matter a damn bit as they won't want to stick around for a loser team.

 

[blackbart]

Look at our roster. How many first round picks do we have? Yet, are we in the playoffs? Are we going to have a winning season? What is standing in that way?

First round picks are extremely valuable...but they don't come close to the value of a true top tier QB. If we had one of those guys on our team this year, we'd be in the playoffs, we likely win our division, and we are legitimate contender for the Super Bowl.(as long as they didn't suffer from the Rams curse and end up on IR)

No other position can do that. A top tier QB changes the game. We go from a team that can't get over the hump to a Super Bowl contender and we remain a contender for the foreseeable future. Unless we get ourselves a top tier QB with that pick, we're not going to get anything close to that out of a first round pick. And the real problem is that the more talent we add, the more guys we have to pay.

Which isn't a problem until you reach the end of their rookie deals and you have never made the playoffs despite having the talent to do so because of your problems at QB.

Look, I don't buy into the media narrative that QBs are everything. But they are BY FAR the most important player on the team and they do have the ability to drastically change a team's fortunes.

The Rams need a franchise QB. We get one and we're a legitimate contender. Without one, we're an average to above average team.

I agree if we had one of those guys we'd be in the playoffs. I also think if they had been more healthy along the Oline there is a good chance we'd be in one of those wildcard spots. And there is a chance based on what has happened if Keenum had been the starter sooner they may have gotten there.

I was ok with your mock where we are drafting Cook, not a huge give away of our future to get there for a guy in a pro style 3 year starter and proven winner. I don't see Goff as that much better and certainly not 3 firsts and a second better.

We had a franchise guy and unfortunately they didn't protect him. He might be available again this off season, though he is damaged goods. Could he be a bridge for a couple of years? I don't think the Rams would entertain that idea. I believe they think Mannion has a future and Keenum is a reliable insurance policy.

As bad as some want THAT guy I don't see it happening this draft. I wouldn't be disappointed to be wrong as long as the price is reasonable but I don't think it will happen.

 

[jrry32]

I agree if we had one of those guys we'd be in the playoffs. I also think if they had been more healthy along the Oline there is a good chance we'd be in one of those wildcard spots. And there is a chance based on what has happened if Keenum had been the starter sooner they may have gotten there.

I was ok with your mock where we are drafting Cook, not a huge give away of our future to get there for a guy in a pro style 3 year starter and proven winner. I don't see Goff as that much better and certainly not 3 firsts and a second better.

We had a franchise guy and unfortunately they didn't protect him. He might be available again this off season, though he is damaged goods. Could he be a bridge for a couple of years? I don't think the Rams would entertain that idea. I believe they think Mannion has a future and Keenum is a reliable insurance policy.

As bad as some want THAT guy I don't see it happening this draft. I wouldn't be disappointed to be wrong as long as the price is reasonable but I don't think it will happen.

Again, though, we have too much talent to be barely making the playoffs imo.

Look, I'm fine with us taking Cook or Lynch or Wentz.(although I don't think Wentz is the right fit here unless we have a veteran QB that can play in 2016) But I think Goff is going to be great. I'm not as confident in the other guys.

 

[Memphis Ram]

But there's no guarantee we hit on any first round pick. I'll bet on Goff. I'm fine with taking other QBs in this draft. But I'd give up an RGIII deal for Goff if it was available. He's going to be worth it.

Seems to me that there being no guarantee to hit on any first round pick isn't exactly a selling point toward giving up multiple first round picks for one player (chance). Few chances lowers the odds for success.

IMO, anything less than Elway, Luck, Aikman, etc.. would be a fail.

Besides, long-term, the guys who are on the team now have to be replaced in the near future (free agency, injury, age). And fewer high selections will make that more difficult to do.

 

[jrry32]

Seems to me that there being no guarantee to hit on any first round pick isn't exactly a selling point toward giving up multiple first round picks for one player (chance). Few chances lowers the odds for success.

IMO, anything less than Elway, Luck, Aikman, etc.. would be a fail.

Besides, long-term, the guys who are on the team now have to be replaced in the near future (free agency, injury, age). And fewer high selections will make that more difficult to do.

If Jared Goff played in a pro style offense, he'd get the same hype as Andrew Luck did.

As for the bold, I'll take the risk that I'm wrong about Goff. I think he's going to be a great QB. It's worth it to me.

Yep, it will make it more difficult to do...but a great QB is still worth it.

 

[Memphis Ram]

If Jared Goff played in a pro style offense, he'd get the same hype as Andrew Luck did.

As for the bold, I'll take the risk that I'm wrong about Goff. I think he's going to be a great QB. It's worth it to me.

Yep, it will make it more difficult to do...but a great QB is still worth it.

Maybe. But, if Goff played in a pro style offense, he probably wouldn't have been as successful as he had been in college. Plus, Luck was more seasoned as he smartly returned for his senior season and was also 6'4" 235 - 240 lbs. and a better athlete, IMO. Goff is stick figure compared to Luck.

Anyway, Goff would have to be considered great to justify a huge deal. While not as bad as a complete bust, Andy Dalton, Alex Smith, Sam Bradford like would be a huge miss, IMO.

 

[NateDawg122]

I don't think I would. I know it sounds crazy because they are talented. But giving up the chance for 3 first round talents and a second to get them? I don't think there is anyone THAT talented.

I would IMMEDIATELY make that kind of trade for Newton, Rodgers, ect. That is a no-brainer in my book. I would trade 4 1st round picks for Cam Newton.

 

[blackbart]

I would IMMEDIATELY make that kind of trade for Newton, Rodgers, ect. That is a no-brainer in my book. I would trade 4 1st round picks for Cam Newton.

And how would you reload over the next 4 years? You would not have a chance for blue chip talent until 2021. We are already starting to face the end of some of our top players rookie contracts. Not everyone will stay.

And what would you do with Mannion?

 

[jrry32]

And how would you reload over the next 4 years? You would not have a chance for blue chip talent until 2021. We are already starting to face the end of some of our top players rookie contracts. Not everyone will stay.

And what would you do with Mannion?

Keep him as a backup. How would we reload? Using all the other picks we'd have. Newton would be more than worth it.

 

[NateDawg122]

And how would you reload over the next 4 years? You would not have a chance for blue chip talent until 2021. We are already starting to face the end of some of our top players rookie contracts. Not everyone will stay.

And what would you do with Mannion?

Who cares about Mannion? You would have Cam freaking Newton! You could develop him behind Newton or trade him for another pick. Your prior question makes no sense either. We have young talent all over the board. Draft a WR in the 2nd and TE in the 3rd and you're set. Believe it or not there is quality talent to be found in rounds 2-7.

 

[jrry32]

Maybe. But, if Goff played in a pro style offense, he probably wouldn't have been as successful as he had been in college. Plus, Luck was more seasoned as he smartly returned for his senior season and was also 6'4" 235 - 240 lbs. and a better athlete, IMO. Goff is stick figure compared to Luck.

Anyway, Goff would have to be considered great to justify a huge deal. While not as bad as a complete bust, Andy Dalton, Alex Smith, Sam Bradford like would be a huge miss, IMO.

In terms of stats? Sure. In terms of ability, I doubt that. He models his game after Peyton Manning and it shows.

Andrew Luck did not return for his Senior season. And I'm have a hard time believing being 240 pounds instead of 215 pounds makes a difference in QB success.

Yep, Luck was a better athlete. But Goff is more mobile than a number of successful NFL QBs.

You're kind of ignoring the point to nitpick. I'm not comparing Luck to Goff. I'm say that Goff would have gotten the Luck hype if he had played in a pro style offense. Goff is an outstanding thrower that processes things extremely quickly. His pocket presence, movement, and poise are also top tier.

 

[blackbart]

Who cares about Mannion? You would have Cam freaking Newton! You could develop him behind Newton or trade him for another pick. Your prior question makes no sense either. We have young talent all over the board. Draft a WR in the 2nd and TE in the 3rd and you're set. Believe it or not there is quality talent to be found in rounds 2-7.

Wow really DAWG I've probably been a Rams fan longer than you've been alive so yeah i get there is talent but there is no Aaron Donald, Tood Gurley, Chris Long, Robert Quinn. You don't get those guys in rounds 2-7.

Thankfully Newton is going nowhere so we don't have to entertain tearing down the future for him.

 

[jrry32]

Wow really DAWG I've probably been a Rams fan longer than you've been alive so yeah i get there is talent but there is no Aaron Donald, Tood Gurley, Chris Long, Robert Quinn. You don't get those guys in rounds 2-7.

Thankfully Newton is going nowhere so we don't have to entertain tearing down the future for him.

That's not really true. They're hard to find but they're there.
Aaron Donald: Geno Atkins was a 4th round pick.
Todd Gurley: Le'Veon Bell was a 2nd round pick.
Chris Long: Michael Bennett was an undrafted free agent.
Robert Quinn: Justin Houston was a 3rd round pick.

 

[NateDawg122]

Wow really DAWG I've probably been a Rams fan longer than you've been alive so yeah i get there is talent but there is no Aaron Donald, Tood Gurley, Chris Long, Robert Quinn. You don't get those guys in rounds 2-7.

Thankfully Newton is going nowhere so we don't have to entertain tearing down the future for him.

I fail to see how your longevity as a Rams fan makes your point any more valid. We don't NEED to find guys like Gurley and Donald because we al ready have them. Quality linemen, receivers, tight ends, ect. can all be find in rounds 2-7. Guys as good as Chris Long is can be found on Day 2 in almost every draft.

My point is, given the youth and depth at almost every position except WR and TE, I would trade 3-4 1st round picks for a guy like Cam Newton and use the other picks to bolster what is already a solid roster.

 

[blackbart]

That's not really true. They're hard to find but they're there.
Aaron Donald: Geno Atkins was a 4th round pick.
Todd Gurley: Le'Veon Bell was a 2nd round pick.
Chris Long: Michael Bennett was an undrafted free agent.
Robert Quinn: Justin Houston was a 3rd round pick.

Yeah that is the same argument others have used on you with QBs

 

[jrry32]

Yeah that is the same argument others have used on you with QBs

I know. As I said, they're hard to find but you can't argue they don't exist. Regardless, we have Donald, Gurley, and Quinn. They're not going anywhere.

 

[blackbart]

I fail to see how your longevity as a Rams fan makes your point any more valid. We don't NEED to find guys like Gurley and Donald because we al ready have them. Quality linemen, receivers, tight ends, ect. can all be find in rounds 2-7. Guys as good as Chris Long is can be found on Day 2 in almost every draft.

My point is, given the youth and depth at almost every position except WR and TE, I would trade 3-4 1st round picks for a guy like Cam Newton and use the other picks to bolster what is already a solid roster.

The point was to counter your smartass reply as if I don't know anything about finding talent in the other rounds.

While we do have some talent there are a bunch of guys that are eligible for free agency over the next few years, resigning them all is highly unlikely. There are also going to be a couple of guys retiring or getting beyond their contracts so they will be moving on. Giving up a ton of first round picks even for a franchise QB is not a sustainable way to run a franchise.

Thankfully this isn't Madden football so we don't have to worry about it happening.

 

[jrry32]

The point was to counter your smartass reply as if I don't know anything about finding talent in the other rounds.

While we do have some talent there are a bunch of guys that are eligible for free agency over the next few years, resigning them all is highly unlikely. There are also going to be a couple of guys retiring or getting beyond their contracts so they will be moving on. Giving up a ton of first round picks even for a franchise QB is not a sustainable way to run a franchise.

Thankfully this isn't Madden football so we don't have to worry about it happening.

The Giants gave up two of them for Eli Manning. The Redskins gave up the three to us and still are making the playoffs this year.(despite RGIII failing) The team can overcome it. It's worth it for a franchise QB.

I'd give up five first round picks for prime Peyton Manning or Tom Brady.

 

[NateDawg122]

The point was to counter your smartass reply as if I don't know anything about finding talent in the other rounds.

While we do have some talent there are a bunch of guys that are eligible for free agency over the next few years, resigning them all is highly unlikely. There are also going to be a couple of guys retiring or getting beyond their contracts so they will be moving on. Giving up a ton of first round picks even for a franchise QB is not a sustainable way to run a franchise.

Thankfully this isn't Madden football so we don't have to worry about it happening.

Alright, let's move this conversation in a more realistic direction. Would you be willing to trade two 1st round picks, one 2nd, and a 3rd/4th to get Goff?