Case Keenum is going to ruin Todd Gurley who will ruin Sam Bradford

[-X-]

I don't like Cook either but I think he offers more than Keenum in the long run. But, based on reports the Rams are interested.

Sounds like they're interested in everybody. And that's good (unless it's Manziel). If we're to take Fisher/Snead at their word, there will be healthy competition for the QB spot this year instead of annointing someone. As much as I appreciate everything about Keenum's game, I'll be stoked if someone blows him out of the water.

 

[Akrasian]

Sounds like they're interested in everybody. And that's good (unless it's Manziel). If we're to take Fisher/Snead at their word, there will be healthy competition for the QB spot this year instead of annointing someone. As much as I appreciate everything about Keenum's game, I'll be stoked if someone blows him out of the water.

I think everybody here wants the Rams to upgrade at QB - the question that is dividing the forum is ultimately at what cost? Figure the Browns will take one of the top 2 QBs. Tennessee wants a King's Ransom for their pick reputedly. Should the Rams trade away their ability to fill holes for several seasons to get Wentz - who very well may be great, or may just be good, or meh, or start out with a rookie of the year season like Bradford and RG3 and then get injured.

I would like a trade up for the right QB - but not if it basically destroys the rest of the draft for several seasons. That would leave the rookie with no decent receivers, and no way to fill holes as they inevitably and unpredictably open.

 

[dieterbrock]

Which is definitely Fisher ball...but he was still very cautious with Keenum. He treated him a lot like he treated Kellen Clemens.

And both QB a

That's a partial reason why. But the numbers don't really back that argument as a full explanation of his low number of attempts. If we were trailing, he'd certainly have more attempts because we'd be forced to throw more. However, Keenum still only had 67 first half passing attempts to 58 second half passing attempts in 2015. That's not much of a difference.

The Rams didn't want to throw the ball with Keenum at QB. Which is definitely Fisher ball...but he was still very cautious with Keenum. He treated him a lot like he treated Kellen Clemens.

I don't think its partial at all. Since Fisher disposed of the Bradford passing attack, the entire offense went in to a shell. After the 49ers game, Bradford had been averaging around 45 passes, in his last 3 about 26. And that's the gear we've been stuck in ever since. Unless of course we were trailing and they had to play catch up which Keenum hadn't really faced so his numbers reflect that
And of course now Fisher has Gurley, with whom he'll ride no matter who the QB is

 

[-X-]

I think everybody here wants the Rams to upgrade at QB - the question that is dividing the forum is ultimately at what cost? Figure the Browns will take one of the top 2 QBs. Tennessee wants a King's Ransom for their pick reputedly. Should the Rams trade away their ability to fill holes for several seasons to get Wentz - who very well may be great, or may just be good, or meh, or start out with a rookie of the year season like Bradford and RG3 and then get injured.

I would like a trade up for the right QB - but not if it basically destroys the rest of the draft for several seasons. That would leave the rookie with no decent receivers, and no way to fill holes as they inevitably and unpredictably open.

 

[OldSchool]

I think everybody here wants the Rams to upgrade at QB - the question that is dividing the forum is ultimately at what cost? Figure the Browns will take one of the top 2 QBs. Tennessee wants a King's Ransom for their pick reputedly. Should the Rams trade away their ability to fill holes for several seasons to get Wentz - who very well may be great, or may just be good, or meh, or start out with a rookie of the year season like Bradford and RG3 and then get injured.

I would like a trade up for the right QB - but not if it basically destroys the rest of the draft for several seasons. That would leave the rookie with no decent receivers, and no way to fill holes as they inevitably and unpredictably open.

Trading three or four picks to move up is hardly "trading away their ability to fill holes for several seasons". That's a bit over dramatic, aside from that I agree we all want an upgrade at QB we just disagree on the QB and how we get him.

 

[Akrasian]

Trading three or four picks to move up is hardly "trading away their ability to fill holes for several seasons". That's a bit over dramatic, aside from that I agree we all want an upgrade at QB we just disagree on the QB and how we get him.

Trading a first and their 2nds this year, and a first and something else valuable next year certainly takes away the ability to fill holes, at least reliably. The lower the pick, the more likely he doesn't become a decent NFL player.

We've had posters say it should be the first this year, a second, plus firsts for several years and other stuff.

 

[OldSchool]

Trading a first and their 2nds this year, and a first and something else valuable next year certainly takes away the ability to fill holes, at least reliably. The lower the pick, the more likely he doesn't become a decent NFL player.

We've had posters say it should be the first this year, a second, plus firsts for several years and other stuff.

To trade up to number one maybe but to 4 or 6 were talking 15, a 2nd and 4th. That's hardly mortgaging the future.

 

[dieterbrock]

I think everybody here wants the Rams to upgrade at QB - the question that is dividing the forum is ultimately at what cost? Figure the Browns will take one of the top 2 QBs. Tennessee wants a King's Ransom for their pick reputedly. Should the Rams trade away their ability to fill holes for several seasons to get Wentz - who very well may be great, or may just be good, or meh, or start out with a rookie of the year season like Bradford and RG3 and then get injured.

I would like a trade up for the right QB - but not if it basically destroys the rest of the draft for several seasons. That would leave the rookie with no decent receivers, and no way to fill holes as they inevitably and unpredictably open.

Yeah, there's a couple of divergent opinions here. But you hit the nail on the head. I believe we all want the superstar QB. I am in the trade up at any costs to get you the guy you want camp, but I also am in the camp that doesnt understand the hate for Keenum.
For me, I think there's 2 QB diamonds in this draft and if we can get one, awesome. If we cant, I'd rather load up on offensive talent at WR/TE. Give Mannion a shot to unseat Keenum, and if he cant we roll with Case. I certainly don't think there's a legit upgrade out there who we foolishly are missing out on

 

[Akrasian]

To trade up to number one maybe but to 4 or 6 were talking 15, a 2nd and 4th. That's hardly mortgaging the future.

True. And I've said many times for the right guy I'd have no problem with that. We got the Philly #2 basically to do that, IMO. Then I've suggested a 3rd next year. That would leave a 2nd and a 3rd to get likely help for this year, and a first and second next year.

 

[FrantikRam]

I just don't understand how anyone could think Keenum is a good option. You can't compare numbers because no two QBs play with the same teammates against the same competition, not to mention the same systems and coaches.

Under Fisher, the Rams have wins against good teams: Colts, Broncos, Seahawks, Cardinals, Niners (when they were good) - take Seattle for example though: we've defeated them 4 times in 4 years with Fisher - with 4 different QBs. The best game against them belongs to Austin Davis.

Record for a QB is meaningless, so I wouldn't hold it against Case. But for those championing his record, I don't understand - he won 3 games and lost 2 for the Rams. But he missed two games against the Bengals and Cardinals - and in those two games, there is no way Keenum wins. We got taken to task both times, and Keenum doesn't make up for 24 points in a single game. So pretend he started those two games too - now his record would be 3-4, which puts him in the same stratosphere as Kellen Clemens, Nick Foles, Austin Davis, and Bradford - the W/L for those guys is around the same with respect to their time as Rams.

Which leads to a logical conclusion: either it doesn't matter who the Rams trot out at QB, or none of them are good enough. IMO, if you are fine with Keenum going into the year, you should be fine with Austin Davis...or Foles. They're both young too.

"But Keenum has better numbers!" - right? No Ram QB played against the same teams that Keenum did. And only Foles had an offensive weapon like Gurley. So if you want to compare QBs, compare Keenum and Foles. Fine, Keenum is better.

But he - nor the rest of them - are good enough to get this team to the playoffs.

 

[-X-]

But he - nor the rest of them - are good enough to get this team to the playoffs.

We'll see about that.

 

[Ramatik]

Record for a QB is meaningless, so I wouldn't hold it against Case. But for those championing his record, I don't understand - he won 3 games and lost 2 for the Rams. But he missed two games against the Bengals and Cardinals - and in those two games, there is no way Keenum wins. We got taken to task both times, and Keenum doesn't make up for 24 points in a single game. So pretend he started those two games too - now his record would be 3-4, which puts him in the same stratosphere as Kellen Clemens, Nick Foles, Austin Davis, and Bradford - the W/L for those guys is around the same with respect to their time as Rams.

Well okay...

But I prefer to pretend that Keenum wins those two games. (I mean, who thought the Rams would beat the Seahawks in Seattle? Impossible right? or the eventual Superbowl winner... Never happen right) So now, with my much more reasonable and just as ridiculously argued premise, I have the Rams with Keenum sitting at 5 and 2. With one game being lost because of a missed field goal and NO Todd Gurley.

Wow. His record looks pretty darned good.

Look, you can bitch about it all you want. This is the way it's going down.

If he gets to camp and stumbles.. well there you go. But trading everything away for a draft pick? Remember Bradford? Remember how much the Skins gave away for RG3 who they just cut? (and there are actually people that think he's good! Heh) It's a crapshoot. You don't know. I don't know. Nobody knows.

Now, I've heard that if it really upsets you, I have heard that there is room on the Jag's bus....

 

[12intheBox]

We'll see about that.

Hopefully, we won't.

I think the Rams COULD win with Case - but I think the recipe for long term success is to get and build around a QB -not to limp by with halfway decent QB play. In the end, it becomes a question of price. They may like a guy in the draft but not be able to get a deal done to get him because the asking price is just that far out of whack. They may like a guy - get him - and be wrong about how ready he is.

Either way - its good to have a guy like Case that they are comfortable with - thats what a backup QB is all about. And Mannion is still there - whatever he is.

But lets hope that all of the arguments that we all have on these boards are never 'answered' - that we have one guy under center for the next 10-15 years and that whoever he is dominates the league.

 

[-X-]

But lets hope that all of the arguments that we all have on these boards are never 'answered' - that we have one guy under center for the next 10-15 years and that whoever he is dominates the league.

No. I don't like that one bit.
Case Keenum needs to sign a 30 year contract with $970m guaranteed. Plus incentives.

 

[FrantikRam]

Well okay...

But I prefer to pretend that Keenum wins those two games. (I mean, who thought the Rams would beat the Seahawks in Seattle? Impossible right? or the eventual Superbowl winner... Never happen right) So now, with my much more reasonable and just as ridiculously argued premise, I have the Rams with Keenum sitting at 5 and 2. With one game being lost because of a missed field goal and NO Todd Gurley.

Wow. His record looks pretty darned good.

Look, you can bitch about it all you want. This is the way it's going down.

If he gets to camp and stumbles.. well there you go. But trading everything away for a draft pick? Remember Bradford? Remember how much the Skins gave away for RG3 who they just cut? (and there are actually people that think he's good! Heh) It's a crapshoot. You don't know. I don't know. Nobody knows.

Now, I've heard that if it really upsets you, I have heard that there is room on the Jag's bus....

If you think we win those two games with Case, then you're a lost cause. Be a little realistic here. Our offense looked the same with Case as it did with all the other QBs we've had under Fisher.

Get a new coach or get a new QB - at this point we aren't going to get a new coach, so hope for a new QB.

It's not necessarily the way it's going down, because we don't know yet. If it happens, I'll obviously accept it. the outlook for the season will be very poor though.

Yea yea whatever. I'm just voicing my displeasure/concerns with my favorite team. Saying there's room on another team's bus because I don't think Case Keenum is the answer? Lol...I guess I can't be a fan and disagree with you? Pretty dumb.

 

[Ramatik]

If you think we win those two games with Case, then you're a lost cause. Be a little realistic here. Our offense looked the same with Case as it did with all the other QBs we've had under Fisher.

Get a new coach or get a new QB - at this point we aren't going to get a new coach, so hope for a new QB.

It's not necessarily the way it's going down, because we don't know yet. If it happens, I'll obviously accept it. the outlook for the season will be very poor though.

Yea yea whatever. I'm just voicing my displeasure/concerns with my favorite team. Saying there's room on another team's bus because I don't think Case Keenum is the answer? Lol...I guess I can't be a fan and disagree with you? Pretty dumb.

Every game is it's own entity. Pretending that something else is/was going to happen, is just as unrealistic.

Ah, I was just poking at you. Don't get up set. I read somewhere that a person was so upset that Keenum was going to be the qb that he was going to be a Jag fan.

That was so ridiculous that I used it as a joke.

I know... just not possible.

 

[FrantikRam]

Every game is it's own entity. Pretending that something else is/was going to happen, is just as unrealistic.

Ah, I was just poking at you. Don't get up set. I read somewhere that a person was so upset that Keenum was going to be the qb that he was going to be a Jag fan.

That was so ridiculous that I used it as a joke.

I know... just not possible.

But you have to be able to project with football, otherwise how would you be able to draft someone? You can EASILY project that if Keenum had started those two games, we still lose. He didn't even make the offense league average...even with Gurley. I won't stop being a Rams fan, but I'll be expecting to lose the normal 9 games if he starts this year.

 

[Ramatik]

But you have to be able to project with football, otherwise how would you be able to draft someone? You can EASILY project that if Keenum had started those two games, we still lose. He didn't even make the offense league average...even with Gurley. I won't stop being a Rams fan, but I'll be expecting to lose the normal 9 games if he starts this year.

I don't think so.

You argument is probably reasonable.

Mine never is.

Let's make a bet. I'm stating that we will not lose 9 games or more.

 

[FrantikRam]

I don't think so.

You argument is probably reasonable.

Mine never is.

Let's make a bet. I'm stating that we will not lose 9 games or more.

Gladly - for me a it's a win/win. But I'd be much happier to be wrong. Have to see if we acquire another QB though, otherwise the bet would be off.

 

[jrry32]

I don't think its partial at all. Since Fisher disposed of the Bradford passing attack, the entire offense went in to a shell. After the 49ers game, Bradford had been averaging around 45 passes, in his last 3 about 26. And that's the gear we've been stuck in ever since. Unless of course we were trailing and they had to play catch up which Keenum hadn't really faced so his numbers reflect that
And of course now Fisher has Gurley, with whom he'll ride no matter who the QB is

I disagree. Those numbers are a bit misleading. Bradford attempted 34 passes against Jacksonville and the Rams attempted 34 passes against Carolina (Bradford was injured at 30 passes). The game that significantly lowers the average is the Houston game. And we barely threw in that game because we were stomping the crap out of Houston.

Fisherball is a very real thing. He goes into a shell when we have a lead. But when Fisher had a legitimate QB (imo), he didn't have an issue letting him throw the ball.(unless we were leading late in the game) The same is not true of Keenum. The Rams wanted to keep his attempts down. And I completely understand why.