Case Keenum is going to ruin Todd Gurley who will ruin Sam Bradford

[JackDRams]

Bleacher Report. Nuff said. First, I'm so tired of all the Keenum bashing. The kid can win games. Did it with us, did it with Houston. He get's shit all over and hasn't deserved it. Second, fuck Fitzpatrick. The guy is shit. Third, the draft hasn't even happened yet. How about these idiot columnists stop judging before it's even happened. We may go get a franchise QB. Fourth, when did the Seahawks transform into an explosive passing attack?? Must have been in the games I didn't see. I hold my judgement on this topic until after the draft. The o line was fixed. The defense is elite. We have some early picks to go out and get us some offensive weapons. If we do so, Gurley will be just fine. Don't you worry about him.

 

[jrry32]

Bleacher Report. Nuff said. First, I'm so tired of all the Keenum bashing. The kid can win games. Did it with us, did it with Houston. He get's crap all over and hasn't deserved it. Second, freak Fitzpatrick. The guy is crap. Third, the draft hasn't even happened yet. How about these idiot columnists stop judging before it's even happened. We may go get a franchise QB. Fourth, when did the Seahawks transform into an explosive passing attack?? Must have been in the games I didn't see. I hold my judgement on this topic until after the draft. The o line was fixed. The defense is elite. We have some early picks to go out and get us some offensive weapons. If we do so, Gurley will be just fine. Don't you worry about him.

Nothing wrong with people telling it how it is. Keenum is a journeyman with a 5-10 career record and very mediocre numbers. What should people be saying?

I know we're Rams fans but I think we have to accept realistic assessments of our QB position. It's very arguably the worst in the NFL right now.

 

[shaunpinney]

Bleacher Report. Nuff said. First, I'm so tired of all the Keenum bashing. The kid can win games. Did it with us, did it with Houston. He get's crap all over and hasn't deserved it. Second, freak Fitzpatrick. The guy is crap. Third, the draft hasn't even happened yet. How about these idiot columnists stop judging before it's even happened. We may go get a franchise QB. Fourth, when did the Seahawks transform into an explosive passing attack?? Must have been in the games I didn't see. I hold my judgement on this topic until after the draft. The o line was fixed. The defense is elite. We have some early picks to go out and get us some offensive weapons. If we do so, Gurley will be just fine. Don't you worry about him.

I don't think they can pick up a franchise QB in the draft, IMO, I don't think there's one there to go and get. Wilson, can hustle to win games by throwing the ball AND by scrambling himself, you have to be honest he must take focus off Lynch - well IMO he does - and I'm not saying Wilson elite, or am I knocking Keenum - I've gone back to watch his footage and I like him, but I'm not sure you'll get the reckless, risk taking QB that he was in college under Fisher.

 

[JackDRams]

I don't think they can pick up a franchise QB in the draft, IMO, I don't think there's one there to go and get. Wilson, can hustle to win games by throwing the ball AND by scrambling himself, you have to be honest he must take focus off Lynch - well IMO he does - and I'm not saying Wilson elite, or am I knocking Keenum - I've gone back to watch his footage and I like him, but I'm not sure you'll get the reckless, risk taking QB that he was in college under Fisher.

That's your personal opinion. But there's roughly 32 NFL Execs that believe there are two sure fire franchise QBs in this draft. And I happen to believe so as well. And they don't even have to be elite. A solid consistent starter would be worth the investment. I'm in the boat that the Rams need to go get one. If they don't, whatever. Keenum is 5-2 in the last two years. Yeah he had a bad first season in Houston at 0-8, but who doesn't? They've been trash for a long time too. Not too many guys coming out of college jumping into that dumpster fire, succeed. Keenum has steadily improved his game. Not saying I want him to be the starter, but he get's no credit for what he's done. Look how long it took Fitzpatrick to become anything. He was epically trash for the first half of his career. I feel better with Keenum and Mannion, then I would Foles and Mannion. Let's just hope, these aren't our two options to start the season.

 

[Akrasian]

Keenum is a journeyman with a 5-10 career record

He was 0-8 in 2013. Since then he is 5-2. It's almost like he's learning what it takes to succeed in the NFL. It is actually possible he improves a bit more, even.

I don't think he'll be a star, or even a guy you don't care about replacing - but using stats from his rookie season, when he's improved since then and this will be his 4th season on the 53 man roster now, seems disingenuous.

 

[Angry Ram]

He was 0-8 in 2013.

Yeah, but check out those scores in that 0-8.

16-17
24-27
24-27
23-28
6-13
31-34
20-27
3-25

I highly doubt all of those were b/c of then 1st time starter Case Keenum.

That was a competitive team that got the worst possible luck that year.

Just b/c Case Keenum isn't a "name" player doesn't mean he's bad, or the team doesn't see a huge difference b/w him and someone from the outside.

 

[dieterbrock]

Nothing wrong with people telling it how it is. Keenum is a journeyman with a 5-10 career record and very mediocre numbers. What should people be saying?

I know we're Rams fans but I think we have to accept realistic assessments of our QB position. It's very arguably the worst in the NFL right now.

A journeyman? He's been in the league 4 years and has played for only 2 teams
Is he great? Don't know. Is he terrible? Well, lets see how getting a full TC with a new coaching staff works out
Its amazing how quick fortunes can change.
Last year Ryan Fitzpatrick got benched for Ryan Mallett and was sent to the Jets where he was going to sit behind Geno Freakin Smith.
Now THAT guy is a journeyman

 

[-X-]

I know we're Rams fans but I think we have to accept realistic assessments of our QB position. It's very arguably the worst in the NFL right now.

I have to accept assessments. I'll determine on my own if they're realistic. Keenum hasn't been given the opportunity to be the full-time starter going into any camp so far in his 4 year career, so who knows what he's capable of with a leadership role. Warner bounced around from the Packers, to the Arena League, to the Rams, to the Amsterdam Admirals, back to the Rams, and then fell into a starting role with Bruce, Holt, Hakim, Proehl, Faulk, and a very stout offensive line. If he wasn't afforded the opportunity to be the backup of the Rams that year, he would have been (probably) out of the league in 1998 and nobody would know his name.

Tell me if any of this sounds familiar. Keenum's worked with Rick Dennison, Romeo Crennel, Rob Boras, and Frank Cignetti in 4 years. He's been the quarterback behind porous offensive lines. His receivers haven't been spectacular. He's been kept down by an offense that's light years from being innovative or aggressive. He's started 15 games TOTAL so far. The words Sam and Bradford come to mind? Let's take his last full season as a young veteran (2012) on a team with kind of sort of the same weapons as the Rams have today and see how that measures up to Case Keenum's last season on the Rams as a young veteran.

BRADFORD (2012)

KEENUM (2015)

Keenum has a lower int%, basically the same td%, same comp%, same Y/A, same AY/A, higher QB Rating, same QBR (gay stat), and half the sack% (not shown). Rams' defense was 14th in the NFL in points allowed in 2012, and 13th in the NFL in points allowed in 2015. But because he's unproductive in the Rams' offense, he's penalized whereas Bradford was not? That seems fair. There isn't anything in Keenum's game that makes me cringe. Same as it was for Bradford. Both can get the job done, but both are limited by the kind of offense they were (and are) charged with running.

 

[jrry32]

I have to accept assessments. I'll determine on my own if they're realistic. Keenum hasn't been given the opportunity to be the full-time starter going into any camp so far in his 4 year career, so who knows what he's capable of with a leadership role. Warner bounced around from the Packers, to the Arena League, to the Rams, to the Amsterdam Admirals, back to the Rams, and then fell into a starting role with Bruce, Holt, Hakim, Proehl, Faulk, and a very stout offensive line. If he wasn't afforded the opportunity to be the backup of the Rams that year, he would have been (probably) out of the league in 1998 and nobody would know his name.

Warner put up one of the best seasons in NFL history when he finally got his starting chance. Keenum has had 3 different opportunities to start games and has only provided mediocre play. Warner was one in a million. Keenum is like any other journeyman.

Tell me if any of this sounds familiar. Keenum's worked with Rick Dennison, Romeo Crennel, Rob Boras, and Frank Cignetti in 4 years. He's been the quarterback behind porous offensive lines. His receivers haven't been spectacular. He's been kept down by an offense that's light years from being innovative or aggressive. He's started 15 games TOTAL so far. The words Sam and Bradford come to mind? Let's take his last full season as a young veteran (2012) on a team with kind of sort of the same weapons as the Rams have today and see how that measures up to Case Keenum's last season on the Rams as a young veteran.

BRADFORD (2012)

KEENUM (2015)

Keenum has a lower int%, basically the same td%, same comp%, same Y/A, same AY/A, higher QB Rating, same QBR (gay stat), and half the sack% (not shown). Rams' defense was 14th in the NFL in points allowed in 2012, and 13th in the NFL in points allowed in 2015. But because he's unproductive in the Rams' offense, he's penalized whereas Bradford was not? That seems fair. There isn't anything in Keenum's game that makes me cringe. Same as it was for Bradford. Both can get the job done, but both are limited by the kind of offense they were (and are) charged with running.

Kind of odd that you didn't make the comparison to 2013 Bradford considering a 7 and 5 game sample size are a lot closer than 16 and 5 games. But I guess that wouldn't make the point you wanted.

You also conveniently overlooked Bradford throwing the ball FAR more often and having FAR more of the offensive burden placed on him. And then there's the fact that Keenum played teams with losing records in 4 out of his 5 starts. Keenum also had a better supporting cast. Better defense, better running game, and better receivers.

There were a lot of things in Keenum's game that made me cringe. The Rams asked him to do very little and he still didn't do that all that well. He played a cupcake schedule and yet averaged less than 150 yards per game. He didn't even average a TD a game.

The numbers don't paint a pretty picture and the play paints an even more ominous picture. Keenum is an anchor that drags the entire team down. He has to be carried and compensated for by the rest of the offense. I don't want that at QB.

 

[jrry32]

He was 0-8 in 2013. Since then he is 5-2. It's almost like he's learning what it takes to succeed in the NFL. It is actually possible he improves a bit more, even.

I don't think he'll be a star, or even a guy you don't care about replacing - but using stats from his rookie season, when he's improved since then and this will be his 4th season on the 53 man roster now, seems disingenuous.

Except his 2-0 with Houston came despite him playing worse than he did when they went 0-8. And his improvement with the Rams is illusory at best. He's the same exact player.

But sure, let's cherry-pick what games to consider and then call him a winner...despite him having lost twice as many games as he's won as a starter and his inability to help the Rams beat Baltimore and San Francisco in 2015 despite both of them picking in the top 7.

 

[jrry32]

A journeyman? He's been in the league 4 years and has played for only 2 teams
Is he great? Don't know. Is he terrible? Well, lets see how getting a full TC with a new coaching staff works out
Its amazing how quick fortunes can change.
Last year Ryan Fitzpatrick got benched for Ryan Mallett and was sent to the Jets where he was going to sit behind Geno Freakin Smith.
Now THAT guy is a journeyman

Yes, Fitzpatrick is the definition of a journeyman. And yes, Keenum is a journeyman. Here is how his career has gone thus far:
2012 - Signed by Houston
2012 - Cut by Houston
2012 - Signed to Houston's Practice Squad
2013 - Signed by Houston
2014 - Cut by Houston
2014 - Signed by St. Louis
2014 - Cut by St. Louis
2014 - Signed by St. Louis's Practice Squad
2014 - Signed by Houston
2015 - Traded to St. Louis for a 7th

That's a journeyman to me. He's been cut or traded 4 times in 4 years.

Frankly, I don't want to see how a training camp with a new coaching staff goes. He's not good enough. The Rams need to upgrade. I can't even call Case Keenum "QB Purgatory" because I don't think he's good enough for that title. He's someone you actually want to replace (if you're a sane team).

 

[DR RAM]

2012 - Signed by Houston
2012 - Cut by Houston
2012 - Signed to Houston's Practice Squad
2013 - Signed by Houston
2014 - Cut by Houston
2014 - Signed by St. Louis
2014 - Cut by St. Louis
2014 - Signed by St. Louis's Practice Squad
2014 - Signed by Houston
2015 - Traded to St. Louis for a 7th
2016 - Moved to Los Angeles

 

[-X-]

Warner put up one of the best seasons in NFL history when he finally got his starting chance. Keenum has had 3 different opportunities to start games and has only provided mediocre play. Warner was one in a million. Keenum is like any other journeyman.

Don't stray too far from the comparisons. I'm not comparing the two in any manner other than how they got to become full-fledged starters. And I'd also recommend you take notice of the HUGE disparity between the talent Warner got to work with and the talent Keenum is currently working with. My only point was that Warner found himself in situations where he wasn't recognized as starting talent until it became time for him to get it by default.

Kind of odd that you didn't make the comparison to 2013 Bradford considering a 7 and 5 game sample size are a lot closer than 16 and 5 games. But I guess that wouldn't make the point you wanted.

That's a good point. I could have done that. I had no ulterior motive behind using 2012 by "masking" anything as you're suggesting. I used 2012 because it was Bradford's first start in Fisher's offense. As was 2015, Keenum's first start in Fisher's offense. But I'll put them up as comparison anyway to stay objective, and to dispel the myth you're advancing that I'm trying to skew stats in my favor.

BRADFORD

KEENUM

Same completion%, Bradford had a higher TD%, same Y/A, same AY/A, roughly the same QB Rating.and Keenum still has a lower sack%.
Bradford had higher yards per game, by a lot, but we'll cover that next.

You also conveniently overlooked Bradford throwing the ball FAR more often and having FAR more of the offensive burden placed on him. And then there's the fact that Keenum played teams with losing records in 4 out of his 5 starts. Keenum also had a better supporting cast. Better defense, better running game, and better receivers.

Do me a favor and relent with the "you conveniently left out" garbage. People did that to us all the time when we were trying to argue that Bradford was a good QB in a bad offense, and you didn't like it then. Don't try to spin that around on me now. Bradford had to throw the ball a lot more because he didn't have a RB in 2012 OR 2013. It would be counter-intuitive to a Jeff Fisher offense to have a stud like Gurley and put the burden on Keenum by throwing the ball anyway. Bradford threw a lot of underneath stuff to supplement the lack of a run game, and you know this.

There were a lot of things in Keenum's game that made me cringe. The Rams asked him to do very little and he still didn't do that all that well. He played a cupcake schedule and yet averaged less than 150 yards per game. He didn't even average a TD a game.

When did the Rams play a hard schedule with Bradford during his wins? His opponents in his wins went 16-32 in 2013. Keenum's opponents in his wins went 23-25. That's what you wanted me to focus on, right? 2013? Keenum did very little because they asked him to do very little.

The numbers don't paint a pretty picture and the play paints an even more ominous picture. Keenum is an anchor that drags the entire team down. He has to be carried and compensated for by the rest of the offense. I don't want that at QB.

You're right about one thing. The numbers don't paint a pretty picture for any QB in the Rams' offense. Not Bradford and not Keenum. Which is why rotating QB after QB after QB after QB in and out of this stoic offense is going to accomplish exactly nothing. Peppering the offense with playmakers who can take over a game is going to go a lot further. Your assessment of Keenum, despite what you think about your scouting talents, is short-sighted because you're discounting the impact the other 10 guys on offense have in relation to a QB's production. And that's what's most baffling to me. It was your main source of contention with people who pigeon-holed Bradford as a jag. And here you are doing the same exact thing with Keenum. I'll compile enough evidence to make my case about Keenum when I get some free time. Video evidence. I don't expect you to give it any credence whatsoever, but I'm going to do it anyway for anyone that's following along here.

 

[-X-]

WTF is that thread title? (you might ask)

I just moved all the QB talk out of the "Rams are gonna ruin Todd Gurley" thread is what happened.

 

[dieterbrock]

Yes, Fitzpatrick is the definition of a journeyman. And yes, Keenum is a journeyman. Here is how his career has gone thus far:
2012 - Signed by Houston
2012 - Cut by Houston
2012 - Signed to Houston's Practice Squad
2013 - Signed by Houston
2014 - Cut by Houston
2014 - Signed by St. Louis
2014 - Cut by St. Louis
2014 - Signed by St. Louis's Practice Squad
2014 - Signed by Houston
2015 - Traded to St. Louis for a 7th

That's a journeyman to me. He's been cut or traded 4 times in 4 years.

Frankly, I don't want to see how a training camp with a new coaching staff goes. He's not good enough. The Rams need to upgrade. I can't even call Case Keenum "QB Purgatory" because I don't think he's good enough for that title. He's someone you actually want to replace (if you're a sane team).

And yet you wanted the Rams to sign Chase Daniel? Talk about the ultimate journeyman. What's that? His fourth team and he's thrown how many reg season passes? Good grief

 

[-X-]

And yet you wanted the Rams to sign Chase Daniel? Talk about the ultimate journeyman. What's that? His fourth team and he's thrown how many reg season passes? Good grief

Journeymen never win Super Bowls.

Except for Rich Gannon.
And Trent Dilfer.
And Doug Williams.
And Jeff Hostetler.
And Mark Rypien.
And Brad Johnson.

 

[bluecoconuts]

Nah, Todd will be our running back for years to come, Case probably has two years tops behind center for the Rams. They'll have drafted a new QB by then.

 

[dieterbrock]

Journeymen never win Super Bowls.

Except for Rich Gannon.
And Trent Dilfer.
And Doug Williams.
And Jeff Hostetler.
And Mark Rypien.
And Brad Johnson.

Some times a "like" just isn't enough...

 

[-X-]

Nah, Todd will be our running back for years to come, Case probably has two years tops behind center for the Rams. They'll have drafted a new QB by then.

That's what I'm counting on unless Keenum blows up somehow. I'd like the Rams to do the opposite of what they did with Bradford. Somehow, someway, get a Bruce/Holt combination with Austin in the slot (our Az-Hakim). We've already got Gurley and a young developing line. We're so close to putting it all together, that I'd hate to see them give away the farm to move up and draft a QB who may or may not succeed in this offense.

 

[Faceplant]

I <3 this thread. I don't see the Rams going 14-2 next year, hell I would be pretty happy with 8-8, but I just don't understand all of the CK bashing. All the kid has done is play his guts out in a moving target of an offense...and win some games. How about we get behind the idea of our QB having an entire off season to learn a new offense? How about we give that same QB the benefit of the doubt that he can improve with a semblance of stability and a coaching staff behind him? How about we give Case fucking Keenum a fraction of the love we gave Samuel fucking Bradford?

How about we stop finding ways to tear down players that pour their heart out on the field to achieve what we fans seem to feel is owed to us?? Lets start thinking about how we can win with this team plus some draft talent (ahem...Treadwell). I swear it has been a millennium since we have been in this position.