3rd Round | Pick 89, Rams select: QB Sean Mannion

[RaminExile]

im not i hav faith in fisher, plus they gotta be better then Dahl and Joseph

Dahl wasn't that bad. He was just overpaid. Actually did well in pass pro and got some push. Wish we'd kept him over Davin Joseph....

I'm a little worried about center but I though Barnes did ok when he played - a few technical things to clean up (like dipping his head on the snap) and they're really keen on Rhaney (I don't know why - literally never seen him snap the ball)....Barrett Jones is an unknown at this level. He should have played more before this point though.

 

[Riverumbbq]

Of course, a strong rushing attack does wonders for pass protection. Also a QB with weapons that knows where to go with the football can, too.

No doubt. Hope it works out this way.

 

[den-the-coach]

Former NFL quarterback Jordan Palmer discusses former Oregon State Beavers QB Sean Mannion’s preparation for the NFL draft. Palmer says NFL teams ‘will fall in love’ with Sean Mannion.

Watch Palmer Talk Mannion

 

[den-the-coach]

Oregon State Beavers quarterback Sean Mannion goes inside Rick Neuheisel's dungeon on 'Under Center'

Oregon State quarterback Sean Mannion recently descended into Rick Neuheisel’s Los Angeles "dungeon," the place where the coach-turned-broadcaster evaluates quarterback film for the Pac-12 Networks.

Mannion was part of Neuheisel’s new show called “Under Center,” which breaks down the strengths and weaknesses of the conference's signal-callers. It has a similar tone and objective as Jon Gruden’s QB Camp, which dissects NFL Draft prospects on ESPN.

Here are some highlights of Mannion’s appearance:

*The first throw Neuheisel called up was Mannion’s 20-yard touchdown strike to Brandin Cooks in the Beavers’ upset of Wisconsin in 2012.

Mannion broke down the double-post play. Slot receiver Kevin Cummings ran what Manion called a “b-line” to control the safety. That left Cooks 1-on-1 against the cornerback to run a “lean post,” where he leaned into the defender before turning into his break toward the end zone. Once that happened, Mannion threw right down the hash to the wide-open Cooks. Touchdown.

On what he felt after that score: “I was going nuts. I couldn’t believe it. It was such a great win for our team. When we went up 10-0, and the way our defense was playing, we felt really good. Man, it was exciting. It’s something that you’ll always remember.”

On Cooks being so open: “When they’re so open, it’s scary.”

*Neuheisel wanted to highlight Mannion’s “magnificent” deep ball, an element the former coach said will translate well in the NFL.

He first picked a deep post play against UCLA in 2012 that resulted in a touchdown.

Mannion said he read the safety and knew he’d get 1-on-1 coverage deep. Neuheisel pointed out Mannion benefits from his 6-5 stature, because it allows him to see over the line of scrimmage and deep down the field.

Later, Neuheisel called up a deep throw in the shadow of the Beavers' end zone against California last season that perfectly hit Cooks in stride. Mannion was asked to grade the pass.

“Let’s put it this way, I was real happy with this throw.”

*Neuheisel brought up Mannion’s 2012 knee injury and Cody Vaz’s performance in his place. Mannion noted that following surgery, he asked the training staff if he could take the ice machine home so he could lay in bed, elevate his knee, ice and repeat.

Mannion: “Part of what was so frustrating about it was it was a complete fluke thing. It was actually a run play I got hurt on. I was wearing a knee brace. You just ask, ‘How could this happen?’ The doctors kind of had to take it out of my hands and say I had to have surgery, and from that point, you just try to get back as soon as you can.”

*Cut to film of Mannion’s return against Washington.

On one of his four interceptions, Mannion noted that he “double hitched,” or got his feet back into throwing position following his drop-back twice, instead of once. That usually means his timing is late. Neuheisel also pointed out that Mannion’s eyes were locked on Cooks, rather than the free safety lurking back.

Later, Mannion missed high on a wide-open tight end. Mannion said he didn’t step over his front foot enough. “I can just drive it to him. It’s wide open.” Vaz replaced Mannion after that misfire.

On his feelings after the game: “Probably about as bad as I’ve felt after any football game in my life.”

*Neuheisel asked how Mannion handled the quarterback competition going into the 2013 season.

Mannion: “I wouldn’t say I felt (slighted). I think maybe, without me even knowing it, it made me a better player. I know myself during the competition, I just tried to just block it out, just tried to focus on being the best football player that I could be. My parents, my aunts and uncles, grandparents, everything, they were just triyng to support me and be positive with me. I think it helped and I think, really, in a way, took my mind off of the competition. I think I had a great camp in large part because I didn’t think about it. I just thought about going out to practice, executing and improving myself as a quarterback.”

* Neuheisel gave Mannion a trivia question: Which quarterback owns the Pac-12 single-season record for passing yards? John Elway, Troy Aikman, Aaron Rodgers or Sean Mannion? Mannion sheepishly answered that he did.

“I’ve never been someone that’s been real into stats. It’s all about wins. But at the same time, to be in a conference with so many great quarterbacks through the years … it’s really humbling to me. But if anything, I want it to reflect on my teammates and what they enabled me to do with their help.”

Neuheisel called Mannion a “throwback,” or a quarterback that is “not gonna win any races, but they certainly can control the game from the pocket.”

*Neuheisel decided to “take a Beaver to the beach.” Cue the jokes about how much it rains in Oregon and a shot of Mannion practicing in a downpour. And a jab at Mannion for being fair-skinned and needing sunscreen.

Mannion: “All the jokes aside about the weather, it’s really an awesome place to live and I couldn’t be happier anywhere.”

*Mannion on the decision to pass on entering the NFL Draft to return to Oregon State for his senior season: “There wasn’t any wrong decision, just two different ones. But when it came down to it, I love Oregon State so much and I enjoy spending time with my teammates and coaches and I thought I could continue to improve as a player.”

*The show finished up with an exercise with Neuheisel’s “Old Board,” a wooden board with a football field painted on. Neuheisel took Mannion through a rapid-fire, two-minute drill, where the quarterback needed to call out underneath or longer throws and quickly react to any result of the play that Neuheisel decided.

Neuheisel: “This is what the whole next is going to be for you … the ability to make plays despite pressure because you’ve rehearsed it.”

*The show wrapped with Mannion signing the “Passion Bucket” in the dungeon.



-- Gina Mizell

http://www.oregonlive.com/beavers/index.ssf/2014/04/oregon_state_beavers_quarterba_5.html

 

[Mojo Ram]

 

[LACHAMP46]

No, not everybody can evaluate talent. Lots of people THINK they can, but your livelihood isnt on the line....I'm all for discussing prospects and what we think, but when people start acting like they know better than the coach and GM, it's getting ridiculous.

this coach & gm have done WHAT in 4 years? what makes what they say or do beyond reproach? this franchise has lost for 10 straight years..they probably NEED a jrry32, coacho, alan...rambill, stranger, X, or somebody in here to give them a stand back type view....see things they may miss....

Again, coaches and GMs have access to tools that you, I and people on this board will never have. Heck, they probably have tools that we would never even believe. So to say that you know better than guys that get paid to do this, that have resources you couldnt even dream of, is about as ignorant as it gets IMO.

Somewhere in these comments, an obvious question arises, then why do they miss? Really, pro football is "cronyism/nepotism" at it's best...How the hell does Schotty have a job? Spags too...Devaney....Man I could go on and on....So with all their tools, they grab a 4th-5th round graded tackle in the 2nd. Last year they waited to grab EJ Gaines in the 6th...Bunch of guys in here loved him, I guess they had some super secret computer program that said Gaines can really play...
Personally, I don't think looking at young men, that play a game, and figuring out who'll be better as they age is pretty simple...The, who will continue to work hard is the difficult part. So save me with, "if any one thinks they know as much is as ignorant as it gets"...Designing the space shuttle is difficult. Picking out players is relatively easy for ANYONE that has played, then watched the game for a while...

Can't find his career fumbles. Anyone have this ?

30 fumbles I read somewhere...

 

[Corbin]

Ok so taken a few days to get away and mentally redigest everything from the draft.... I can get the OL picks to a certain degree where we are a running team yada yada yada and we have coach Bou who can make chocolate mousse out of a pile of shit (or so I've heard) but this Mannion pick? Really? It's a real waste of a pick IMO. This FO is so huge on BPA and I seen no BPA past the first pick, with them getting so much acclaim for the previous years deals they might be getting a bit to fool hearty. IDK

 

[FrantikRam]

this coach & gm have done WHAT in 4 years? what makes what they say or do beyond reproach? this franchise has lost for 10 straight years..they probably NEED a jrry32, coacho, alan...rambill, stranger, X, or somebody in here to give them a stand back type view....see things they may miss....

Somewhere in these comments, an obvious question arises, then why do they miss? Really, pro football is "cronyism/nepotism" at it's best...How the hell does Schotty have a job? Spags too...Devaney....Man I could go on and on....So with all their tools, they grab a 4th-5th round graded tackle in the 2nd. Last year they waited to grab EJ Gaines in the 6th...Bunch of guys in here loved him, I guess they had some super secret computer program that said Gaines can really play...
Personally, I don't think looking at young men, that play a game, and figuring out who'll be better as they age is pretty simple...The, who will continue to work hard is the difficult part. So save me with, "if any one thinks they know as much is as ignorant as it gets"...Designing the space shuttle is difficult. Picking out players is relatively easy for ANYONE that has played, then watched the game for a while...

30 fumbles I read somewhere...

No disrespect to the guys you named, I love reading their insights. But do those gentlemen get to: talk to these prospects in person? Do they hire a PI or some other firm to dig into every facet of their life? Do they have the experience that the Rams coaching staff has? Do they have the financial wherewithal to fly out and watch them live?

Fans do not see things that FO guys miss. I can't know that for sure obviously, but it's common sense. They spend more time and money on assessing these guys than we do, and they've been doing it longer. It'd be like if you were a fan of medicine, read a few medical books, and then when a doctor screws up a surgery say, "I could have done that better". Come on.

As far as draft busts or successes go - there are a hundred reasons, and we'll never know why. Tom Brady on the Rams could have been Tony Banks, and Tony Banks on the Patriots could have been Tom Brady. The city they live, their personal lives, their coaches, their friends, their teammates - all of these things could have an impact over whether they are "good" NFL players or not. And all of these things are things that we as fans will never really know or experience first hand, because we don't know these NFL players. The crux of it all is, for the most part, you are either "right" or "wrong". A player turns out to be either "good" or "bad" (or Sam Bradford - and the internet blows up arguing over whether you are good or bad). It's essentially a 50% chance. So you can say right now I think Gurley and Havenstein will be good, and the rest busts. And you could turn out to be right someday - but guess what? That still doesn't mean you are "better" than the guys that drafted the players....because most likely, they end up being "bad" for reasons that you and I will never know.

It's a 50% chance because on every single play, some NFL player is trying to make their opponent turn into a draft bust. Can you imagine building a team at work and then having another team do everything in their power to stop them???

That is what makes this more complex than building a space shuttle.....you're dealing with human beings and all the feelings and emotions that come with us.


And again, this is an internet talk forum, we can obviously talk about whatever....I just don't like it when people bash the coach and GM before they deserve it.

As far as what they've done so far.....they've done a pretty good job. Had we had average NFL starting QB play the past two years, we would have been right in the playoff mix.

 

[ausmurp]

...

All makes perfect sense. We can only speculate but in reality these people (scouts for teams) get paid probably $400K a yr to just watch these players, investigate them, study them, see them play live, etc. 40+ hrs a week doing this, could you even imagine? Sure some of them probably aren't as intelligent as me or you or some others on this board, but they still know more about college prospects than we do. I'm a lot smarter than most plumbers or flower shop owners - I'm a programmer/developer I write code, I have my masters degree - and I don't know near as much about plumbing or flowers as the aforementioned. Not to mention this isn't only their career but its probably their passion. And yeah there are thousands of other factors per drafted player that go into the player they become in the NFL, just as you said. Just imagine if Bradford was drafted by the Patriots, with their OL play and coaching. Brady would probably be out of a job by now and Bradford would be their starter, and a potential MVP candidate yr round lol.

 

[LACHAMP46]

But do those gentlemen get to: talk to these prospects in person? Do they hire a PI or some other firm to dig into every facet of their life? Do they have the experience that the Rams coaching staff has? Do they have the financial wherewithal to fly out and watch them live?

Information age is wonderful....The information most have is right at the fingertips of almost anyone....And if you happen to live in the area of a prospect, you probably know more about their personal lives than any area scout could hope to accumulate....

I just don't like it when people bash the coach and GM before they deserve it.

So, when do you start to bash them? How many non-playoff years? How many blowout losses? How many missed draft picks? How patient must one be before you even begin to question their "expertise"?

Had we had average NFL starting QB play the past two years, we would have been right in the playoff mix.

It's their job to anticipate the possibilities...especially with an injury prone QB...Their answer was to sign Clemmons & Hill....oh, and sign Austin Davis...or was he drafted, which would make this choice even worse.

 

[VegasRam]

Actually Champ, I've always hated the expression "It ain't rocket science", because whatever's driving the conversation probably IS harder since in most endeavors, you're not dealing with unlimited budgets, unlimited testing, and unlimited manpower. So drafting IS harder than building a shuttle.

Also, it's 3 years, not 4 - big difference, and did I misread you, or are you really bagging on the Rams for not picking Gaines SOONER?

If this sounds personal, it's not, we just disagree completely. I am a HUGE UCLA fan, watch every minute of their games, and really tried to like Hundley, but couldn't, and if your knock on Mannion is his lack of mobility, fine, but he's a way better QB.

BTW, how's Ray-Ray doing?

 

[FrantikRam]

Information age is wonderful....The information most have is right at the fingertips of almost anyone....And if you happen to live in the area of a prospect, you probably know more about their personal lives than any area scout could hope to accumulate....

So, when do you start to bash them? How many non-playoff years? How many blowout losses? How many missed draft picks? How patient must one be before you even begin to question their "expertise"?

It's their job to anticipate the possibilities...especially with an injury prone QB...Their answer was to sign Clemmons & Hill....oh, and sign Austin Davis...or was he drafted, which would make this choice even worse.

The information age doesn't allow you and I to get to know these prospects personally, no matter what we read about them. That blows that argument out of the water. On top of that, even in this information age, those guys probably pay people to DIG into their lives to figure out what they are all about - do you do that? Thought not.

Lol anticipate the possibilities huh? Tell me, please, one team that has made the playoffs after losing their starting QB for the ENTIRE season. Hasn't happened in a LONG time....wonder why that is?

I'm not really the bashing type, because at the end of the day they do a better job than I ever could. But I suppose my emotions would get the better of me once I stopped seeing continuous improvement. But I've seen continuous improvement since they've taken over.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

No, not everybody can evaluate talent. Lots of people THINK they can, but your livelihood isnt on the line....I'm all for discussing prospects and what we think, but when people start acting like they know better than the coach and GM, it's getting ridiculous.

Again, coaches and GMs have access to tools that you, I and people on this board will never have. Heck, they probably have tools that we would never even believe. So to say that you know better than guys that get paid to do this, that have resources you couldnt even dream of, is about as ignorant as it gets IMO.

I know some posters that are very good at predicting success or failure of college players entering the NFL.

I will never understand posters thinking that this scouting thing is more than just a matter of opinion. If it was the exact science that only skilled professionals can accurately and affectively carry out, like you seem to think it is, then explain guys like Ryan Leaf and Vince Young. Explain Mike Mamula, Jason Smith, Trung Canidate, Jimmy Kennedy, etc...there are bad picks every year. The 2010 draft had nearly an entire top ten out of the league in 4 years.

And if it is so unfathomable that, Fans who study the game could ever have a valuable opinion on a prospect then why are they able to frequently spot a bad player that wont work out when paid professionals cannot. The draft is full of failed picks every year. The overall success rate is not very high, and those picks are being Mae by GMs and coaches with access to resources that we couldn't even dream of....your words not mine.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

I don't think the Rams would have drafted him there if Cignetti and Weinke didn't believe there was a decent possibility of that at least.

The flameout rate among QB prospects is very high - but teams need to have a decent QB at least, and that's why QBs get taken higher than their ratings might otherwise indicate. Mannion has intelligence, apparently a work ethic, size, etc. He has some flaws, many of which are likely correctable with a good QB guru - which Weinke supposedly is. I'm not going to hold my breath on Mannion - but the Rams needed to get a developmental QB, and by all reports they got the one that they most wanted, after going over all the second tier QBs. I'm going to give him some time at least. At least see if getting Mannion to hold the ball higher improves his time to throw.

QBs are overdrafted every year. I am impressed that a guy like Grayson lasted as long as he did. Maybe NFL personnel are collectively getting wiser. Maybe it peaked the year Gabbert and Ponder we're first rounders. I think Locker was that year too. I think there were better players on the board when Manninon and even Grayson were drafted, but that is the drawback that comes with needing a QB. Teams have to take them earlier than their true value.

 

[RamFan503]

Why wou

It's easy to place the blame on everyone else. As I said in a long post already, you need to examine Stanford's gameplan and ask why they would do what they did.

Why wouldn't they? No O-line, no skill players, and an offense that wasn't getting it done. What other game plan would they use?

 

[FrantikRam]

I know some posters that are very good at predicting success or failure of college players entering the NFL.

I will never understand posters thinking that this scouting thing is more than just a matter of opinion. If it was the exact science that only skilled professionals can accurately and affectively carry out, like you seem to think it is, then explain guys like Ryan Leaf and Vince Young. Explain Mike Mamula, Jason Smith, Trung Canidate, Jimmy Kennedy, etc...there are bad picks every year. The 2010 draft had nearly an entire top ten out of the league in 4 years.

And if it is so unfathomable that, Fans who study the game could ever have a valuable opinion on a prospect then why are they able to frequently spot a bad player that wont work out when paid professionals cannot. The draft is full of failed picks every year. The overall success rate is not very high, and those picks are being Mae by GMs and coaches with access to resources that we couldn't even dream of....your words not mine.

Never once did I say it is an exact science.

Did you read all of what I have posted in this discussion? I ask because if you had I don't think you would ask me to explain guys like Ryan Leaf and Vince Young.

Of course there are bad picks every year. My only contention is what makes guys bad picks, and my argument is that fans cannot possibly know. For example, is it feasible that Jason Smith, on a different team, could have been successful? YES! But we will never know. That goes for every single "bust". Which truly raises the question: why are there draft busts?? What makes a bust? There are a million possible answers to that question, but yet only two outcomes - bust, or not a bust. I could go through and give an opinion on every single player as to whether they will make it in the NFL, or not. And I could end up being more right than anyone else in the world - because at the end of the day, it would just be getting lucky with a 50% chance for each player.

And the explanation is relatively simple: on each play, a CB and WR, LB and FB, G and DT, T and DE face off right? On every single play, you can declare a winner and loser, whether they are involved in the play or not (which is essentially what advanced metrics do). In order to be deemed a "good" player, you need to win more than you lose.

But in order for that to occur, someone needs to lose more than they win - thus now they are a bust.

So in every single draft, there will be "busts" and "gems", "good" picks, and "bad" picks. But a player drafted by the Patriots and a player drafted by the Jaguars are NOT given equal circumstances, and thus cannot be judged so easily.

My contention here is, aside from what all I just wrote, fans don't even get to meet these players, and yet we form opinions and criticize the FO of the Rams as if we know everything. It's dumb.

It's not an exact science, but it's very complex. There are a million factors that can go in to whether or not a kid is successful, and just because some guy behind a computer said Vince Young would be a bust, doesn't mean he has any clue as to WHY Vince Young became a bust.

 

[LACHAMP46]

The information age doesn't allow you and I to get to know these prospects personally, no matter what we read about them.

TMZ seems to do an excellent job on investigating....I guess all they employ are detectives and private investigators....and I know a couple of PI's...whew are they so special! I guess Lexi-Nexus is just for a few certain individuals...

Tell me, please, one team that has made the playoffs after losing their starting QB for the ENTIRE season.

Not sure if Matt Cassell went to the playoffs when he led his team to an 11-5 record. Not sure if he started all 16 games that year...I do think he was either a UDFA or a 5th or 6th rounder that never started a game at SC...So, not only could he play, a bunch of experts missed him.

 

[RamFan503]

is about as ignorant as it gets IMO

The rest was fine. This part was completely unnecessary.

 

[jrry32]

No disrespect to the guys you named, I love reading their insights. But do those gentlemen get to: talk to these prospects in person? Do they hire a PI or some other firm to dig into every facet of their life? Do they have the experience that the Rams coaching staff has? Do they have the financial wherewithal to fly out and watch them live?

Fans do not see things that FO guys miss. I can't know that for sure obviously, but it's common sense. They spend more time and money on assessing these guys than we do, and they've been doing it longer. It'd be like if you were a fan of medicine, read a few medical books, and then when a doctor screws up a surgery say, "I could have done that better". Come on.

As far as draft busts or successes go - there are a hundred reasons, and we'll never know why. Tom Brady on the Rams could have been Tony Banks, and Tony Banks on the Patriots could have been Tom Brady. The city they live, their personal lives, their coaches, their friends, their teammates - all of these things could have an impact over whether they are "good" NFL players or not. And all of these things are things that we as fans will never really know or experience first hand, because we don't know these NFL players. The crux of it all is, for the most part, you are either "right" or "wrong". A player turns out to be either "good" or "bad" (or Sam Bradford - and the internet blows up arguing over whether you are good or bad). It's essentially a 50% chance. So you can say right now I think Gurley and Havenstein will be good, and the rest busts. And you could turn out to be right someday - but guess what? That still doesn't mean you are "better" than the guys that drafted the players....because most likely, they end up being "bad" for reasons that you and I will never know.

It's a 50% chance because on every single play, some NFL player is trying to make their opponent turn into a draft bust. Can you imagine building a team at work and then having another team do everything in their power to stop them???

That is what makes this more complex than building a space shuttle.....you're dealing with human beings and all the feelings and emotions that come with us.


And again, this is an internet talk forum, we can obviously talk about whatever....I just don't like it when people bash the coach and GM before they deserve it.

As far as what they've done so far.....they've done a pretty good job. Had we had average NFL starting QB play the past two years, we would have been right in the playoff mix.

This isn't surgery though. I'm not about to tell you that I know more than these guys or that I have as much information as them. But that doesn't mean that I can't be correct.

The great thing about not being paid and being under the pressure they are is that, like LAChamp said, we can all take a step back and evaluate things with perspective they cannot.

For example, Snead may have to deal with a position coach demanding one player because he can "fix him" that Snead doesn't like as much as another. But if Fisher backs the coach, Snead has to pick that guy.

We have every right to be confident in our opinions. That doesn't make us "ignorant". The people on this board are far from it. Many of them put a lot of time into watching these guys. You can be less informed without being ignorant.

And frankly, the great thing about being "less informed" is that we aren't swayed as much by some things that NFL teams arguably put too much weight in (like Pro Days).

 

[jrry32]

TMZ seems to do an excellent job on investigating....I guess all they employ are detectives and private investigators....and I know a couple of PI's...whew are they so special! I guess Lexi-Nexus is just for a few certain individuals...
Not sure if Matt Cassell went to the playoffs when he led his team to an 11-5 record. Not sure if he started all 16 games that year...I do think he was either a UDFA or a 5th or 6th rounder that never started a game at SC...So, not only could he play, a bunch of experts missed him.

Haha, I actually do have access to Lexis Nexis including the public records archives. But never thought to use it with draft prospects.