3rd Round | Pick 89, Rams select: QB Sean Mannion

[Faceplant]

The more I watch Mannion, the more I like him. From what I understand, he has improved quite a bit since the season ended by working on mechanics and footwork also. The tools are there. Big arm? Check. Ability to run a pro style offense? Check. Prototypical NFL QB measurements? Big Check.

I will bet on a mature, intelligent QB with those tools to progress further at the NFL level than a less mature or intelligent player who may look better coming out. Again, that's just me.

 

[FrantikRam]

Then all you are saying is if you don't personally know a player then you cannot know if he will succeed? In some cases that is true. In most other cases it is false. I watched every PSU game that Jimmy Kennedy ever played. I hated that pick because I was able to accurately evaluate his game from watching him play. In fact I bet I saw him play more than the scouts and coaches ever did. Then there are cases like Ray Ray Armstrong where you get a pretty good idea of his character just from the news and scouting reports.

I understand that Tavon Austin still has time to improve but so far my evaluation of what he would be in the NFL is spot on. It wasn't luck. It was deductive reasoning.
Scouts have differing opinions all of the time. One scout will love a guy and another will hate him. Same guy, same games. How is that different than a fan observing play?

Regarding Vince Young, didn't you get a feel for who he was? Cant you say there are general rules to follow that could clue you into a guys prospects for success? Sure in some cases we need more information and in others we have enough. In the case of bad character guys I tend to say don't pick them, but I cannot research them like coaches. So I tend to stick to on field ability and how they translate to the NFL. However I do feel that in most cases if you give a guy millions that it will only amplify who he truly is. Despite his on field tools, I predict failure for Jameis Winston.

If the NFL really has access to so much more knowledge and information about prospects And still fail at the rate in which they do, then they are actually much worse at the player evaluations than some of the fans on this board who don't have as much access to information. Or maybe they take it too far and over analyze, which I contend every year. Just watch the games and you can see who can play.

No, that's not all I'm saying. It's one of the many reasons I list that any NFL front office is going to be better than fans at scouting (along with the time they have to do it versus fans, and the fact that their livelihood depends on it). Your comment about Jimmy Kennedy - I would guess that anyone drafted in the first round, a scout or coach will watch every snap they played. So at best, you're tied with them for how much you probably saw him. On top of that though, they would be given access to film that you wouldn't. Not sure why you would think you could possibly watch a player more than an NFL team/scout?? Even one from your favorite college team. You have a full time job. That IS their full time job.

It's great that you are able to guess how a player will do. Congrats. But you still don't know why those players were busts. And how do so many teams miss? Good grief....every year somebody has to win, which means somebody has to lose. The draft is no different. Good players and busts will come out of every draft. But had Jimmy Kennedy been drafted by the Ravens, he might be a star. We'll never know. And that's my point.

 

[RamFan503]

Seumalo played every game, 503. He moved from center to play right tackle to cover for all of the injuries on the line, but he played every game and had two surgeries on his foot in the offseason.

Excuse me Mem but Seumalo used 2014 as his red shirt year. He didn't play a single game while recovering from surgery on his foot.

As for Lauina, there are plenty of guards with lack of foot movement that went in last year's class alone. There's always an offensive line coach who thinks that they can coach up those players and unlock their potential.

Seriously? You are going to say because some Guards went into the NFL that lacked good foot movement that it somehow translates to Lauina being coachable to NFL level? The guy is either NFL level talent or he isn't. I would love for him to be but he isn't.

Storm Woods and Jarmon Hunter (who, despite being a freshman, immediately clicked with Mannion and was his favorite target. There aren't any highlights of him yet, but I guarantee that there will be next year because he opened a lot of eyes with his skillset. Just watch the Mannion tapes; you'll hear Hunter's name all the time.) are far from "nothing."

Clicked with Mannion? Favorite target? He had 20 catches for 334 yards.

You are really reaching with this.

 

[Memento]

Excuse me Mem but Seumalo used 2014 as his red shirt year. He didn't play a single game while recovering from surgery on his foot.

Seriously? You are going to say because some Guards went into the NFL that lacked good foot movement that it somehow translates to Lauina being coachable to NFL level? The guy is either NFL level talent or he isn't. I would love for him to be but he isn't.

Clicked with Mannion? Favorite target? He had 20 catches for 334 yards.

You are really reaching with this.

Then forgive me for my ignorance on Seumalo. I thought that he played in 2013.

Yes, he clicked with Mannion, and he was his favorite target. I'll give you the others, but I won't give you that. Hunter did well as a freshman, and he and Mannion have talked about how much they clicked in 2014. There have been multiple interviews with both of them about this, and they did click. Watch the tapes. Stanford, Oregon, every one in 2014. Mannion threw to Hunter whenever he could.

 

[RamFan503]

RF503, I value your insight but I gotta disagree here. If Stanford felt Mannion's supporting cast was so dreadful, they wouldn't have utilized the game-plan they did. They saw a weakness in Mannion's game and capitalized on it.

You can beat a defense bring 6-7 blitzers even with a weak supporting cast. Blitzing like that leaves you susceptible to quick hitters and hot routes. And those sort of throws have the potential to result in a huge play because you have so few guys in coverage. Stanford was gambling all game long that they wouldn't get burned and they didn't.

They were bringing the blitzes from every direction and Mannion was struggling to recognize and exploit them. And he's definitely not athletic enough to do much escaping when they bring pressure. They recognized that if they could force him off his spot and to make quick decisions, he'd struggle. And he did.

Come on Jrry. Sounds a lot like what the Giants did to the patsies. Does Brady suck too? The tactic used by Stanford is not all that uncommon. Hit the head and the body will die. If you can take the most important player out of the game then you win. The Cardinal knew that O-line couldn't block them and they knew that talent level couldn't consistently burn them for it. They saw a weakness in the BEAVERS game and they capitalized on it.

There isn't a QB in college that could have delivered in that situation. Even your boy Jameis played like crap when he had extreme pressure. And he had NFL level quality around him - quite a bit in fact. Clearly Winston is better than Mannion but to use that Stanford game as an example to say he sucks is just ignoring the reason WHY he sucked.

 

[Rmfnlt]

As far as draft busts or successes go - there are a hundred reasons, and we'll never know why. Tom Brady on the Rams could have been Tony Banks, and Tony Banks on the Patriots could have been Tom Brady. The city they live, their personal lives, their coaches, their friends, their teammates - all of these things could have an impact over whether they are "good" NFL players or not. And all of these things are things that we as fans will never really know or experience first hand, because we don't know these NFL players.
This is an interesting point to me.

While I'm not a fan of the old "you are what your record says you are", the sum of all you wrote (and I agree with it, BTW) is the record.

The break down could occur for any of the reasons you mention... but, if the coaches and scouts have all this information... if they are good at their craft (actual coaching), then the record should reflect that, no?

The "wild card" here is injuries.... but I go back to building a roster that is sound because they were good at using all these tools we don't have and coaching them up to be "next man up".

The record thus far has been below average.... IMO, that gives "some" fans cause for concern and it's no unreasonable. I won't dog them for it.

We all want success... but nothing's guaranteed. All we have to go by is history.

 

[RamFan503]

Then forgive me for my ignorance on Seumalo. I thought that he played in 2013.

Yes, he clicked with Mannion, and he was his favorite target. I'll give you the others, but I won't give you that. Hunter did well as a freshman, and he and Mannion have talked about how much they clicked in 2014. There have been multiple interviews with both of them about this, and they did click. Watch the tapes. Stanford, Oregon, every one in 2014. Mannion threw to Hunter whenever he could.

Seumalo did play in 2013 but not in 2014.

And you may have seen some clips where they mention Hunter's name but he was Mannion's 6th receiver. Maybe you were hearing the name Victor? Jordon Villamin maybe? I'm not sure where you are getting this but if you followed the Beavs at all you would never come away with Hunter clicking with Mannion right away or that he was Mannion's favorite target. It's simply not the case. There were 5 players with more catches than Hunter and he only had one TD the entire season. If you want to hold to the idea that Hunter was Mannion's go to guy then I'd have to say it only hurts your argument that he had talent around him. 20 catches, 334 yards, 1 TD and that is who you hitch your wagon to?

And last year not only was Storm not all that impressive, Terron Ward was actually the go to RB in meaningful situations.

My son went to OSU and we live about 40 miles from the campus. I follow them and the Ducks, where my other son is a student, pretty closely.

 

[Memento]

Seumalo did play in 2013 but not in 2014.

And you may have seen some clips where they mention Hunter's name but he was Mannion's 6th receiver. Maybe you were hearing the name Victor? Jordon Villamin maybe? I'm not sure where you are getting this but if you followed the Beavs at all you would never come away with Hunter clicking with Mannion right away or that he was Mannion's favorite target. It's simply not the case. There were 5 players with more catches than Hunter and he only had one TD the entire season. If you want to hold to the idea that Hunter was Mannion's go to guy then I'd have to say it only hurts your argument that he had talent around him. 20 catches, 334 yards, 1 TD and that is who you hitch your wagon to?

And last year not only was Storm not all that impressive, Terron Ward was actually the go to RB in meaningful situations.

My son went to OSU and we live about 40 miles from the campus. I follow them and the Ducks, where my other son is a student, pretty closely.

I did not hear Victor. I heard Villamin's name called a bit (who is also a talented wideout, by the way, thank you for mentioning him or I would have forgotten. And for the record, yes, he's more talented than any of Mizzou's receivers last year and this year. He has to be.) Again, like I said, Hunter may not have caught a lot of passes thrown to him, but he was clearly clicking with Mannion, and Mannion trusted him a lot. I know that you watched them, and I respect that because you caught a lot of things that I didn't know. But against Stanford, I heard Hunter's name at least seven times. I heard Villamin's name called as well.

 

[RamFan503]

I did not hear Victor. I heard Villamin's name called a bit (who is also a talented wideout, by the way, thank you for mentioning him or I would have forgotten. And for the record, yes, he's more talented than any of Mizzou's receivers last year and this year. He has to be.) Again, like I said, Hunter may not have caught a lot of passes thrown to him, but he was clearly clicking with Mannion, and Mannion trusted him a lot. I know that you watched them, and I respect that because you caught a lot of things that I didn't know. But against Stanford, I heard Hunter's name at least seven times. I heard Villamin's name called as well.

What? Is the Stanford game the only game anyone here watched? I guess that just sums up Mannion as a player. And for the record, Hunter had three catches in that game. I think it was his biggest game yardage wise but not sure.

 

[Memento]

What? Is the Stanford game the only game anyone here watched? I guess that just sums up Mannion as a player. And for the record, Hunter had three catches in that game. I think it was his biggest game yardage wise but not sure.

Three catches. At least seven targets. Catches aren't the end-be-all to how much a receiver is trusted by a quarterback. Villamin got his named called quite a bit as well.

I just can't buy that Mannion did everything he did with nothing available to him. No quarterback does that with nothing. Not even Manning or Marino did.

 

[Rmfnlt]

Just for the record, I am smarter than Snead, Demoff and Fisher combined.

Just waiting for the call from Kroenke on that job offer!

 

[RamFan503]

Three catches. At least seven targets. Catches aren't the end-be-all to how much a receiver is trusted by a quarterback. Villamin got his named called quite a bit as well.

I just can't buy that Mannion did everything he did with nothing available to him. No quarterback does that with nothing. Not even Manning or Marino did.

No but it was pretty clear when he had nothing - like last year.

 

[jrry32]

Come on Jrry. Sounds a lot like what the Giants did to the patsies. Does Brady suck too? The tactic used by Stanford is not all that uncommon. Hit the head and the body will die. If you can take the most important player out of the game then you win. The Cardinal knew that O-line couldn't block them and they knew that talent level couldn't consistently burn them for it. They saw a weakness in the BEAVERS game and they capitalized on it.

There isn't a QB in college that could have delivered in that situation. Even your boy Jameis played like crap when he had extreme pressure. And he had NFL level quality around him - quite a bit in fact. Clearly Winston is better than Mannion but to use that Stanford game as an example to say he sucks is just ignoring the reason WHY he sucked.

As I recall, that's not what the Giants did. They did what I was talking about that Stanford did NOT do. Their front four dominated that game so they didn't blitz the heck out of Brady. They sat back and let four or five rushers wreak havoc.

They saw a weakness in Mannion's game imo. Hell, you bring up Jameis, there were teams that blitzed the crap out of him too and got plenty of pressure...difference is that Jameis adjusted and forced them to stop by beating the blitz. The Notre Dame game comes to mind as an obvious example. Notre Dame blitzed heavily during the first half and FSU/Winston struggled. Winston came out in the second half and started beating their blitzes which forced them to back off and FSU had their way with them.

I'm not using the Stanford game to say he sucks. I'm using the game to illustrate flaws he has that Stanford attacked and he was unable to overcome...a slow release, a lack of poise under pressure, poor footwork, poor movement skills, mediocre arm strength without sound lower body mechanics, inconsistent accuracy especially when moved off his spot, struggles diagnosing exotic blitzes, etc.

That's why Stanford did what they did. They saw a weakness in Mannion's game and they exploited it.

Think you overlooked the word "entire"

Amazing how some of you just can't admit you could be wrong about Mannion.

This is going to either make football genius' out of some of you or put a huge dent in your credibility down the road, I guess we'll see. I guarantee I for one remember who said what, hey if the Mannion detractors are somehow:notworthy: actually right, I'll be the very first to congratulate you on your fore sight that Snisher miss calculated...and sing your praises as true football gods

How? Trent Green was the starting QB and missed the entire 1999 season. I don't think I overlooked that word.

I don't want my praises sung. I don't want to be right. Mannion is a Rams QB now. I just wanted the Rams to draft a guy that I felt would do well. But that didn't happen. And Mannion has my full support as long as he is on htis team.

 

[OC--LeftCoast]

How? Trent Green was the starting QB and missed the entire 1999 season. I don't think I overlooked that word.

Oh...that QB

My apologies, you are correct
(Wrong in your analysis on Mannion, but 100% correct on that point)

 

[jrry32]

Oh...that QB

My apologies, you are correct
(Wrong in your analysis on Mannion, but 100% correct on that point)

I'll take that. Yea, I wasn't sure if you thought I was referring to another year or not. For the record, I hope you and Stu are right. Because this team needs a QB of the Future and I'm far from perfect as a talent evaluator.

 

[SteezyEndo]

I don't think he should wear #14 though for another Shaun has wore it before. Too bad he can't get #18...

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

No, that's not all I'm saying. It's one of the many reasons I list that any NFL front office is going to be better than fans at scouting (along with the time they have to do it versus fans, and the fact that their livelihood depends on it). Your comment about Jimmy Kennedy - I would guess that anyone drafted in the first round, a scout or coach will watch every snap they played. So at best, you're tied with them for how much you probably saw him. On top of that though, they would be given access to film that you wouldn't. Not sure why you would think you could possibly watch a player more than an NFL team/scout?? Even one from your favorite college team. You have a full time job. That IS their full time job.

It's great that you are able to guess how a player will do. Congrats. But you still don't know why those players were busts. And how do so many teams miss? Good grief....every year somebody has to win, which means somebody has to lose. The draft is no different. Good players and busts will come out of every draft. But had Jimmy Kennedy been drafted by the Ravens, he might be a star. We'll never know. And that's my point.

I totally disagree with everything you just posted. First the coaches and scouts don't watch every snap a player has taken. How much time do you think they have?

And you call it a guess. Well it's great that you can assume that what draft fans do is guess. Many spend hours upon hours watching games that they record and games on YouTube to be sure to evaluate every pick possible. Picking lottery numbers is a guess. Because you have nothing to go by. I dont go down a list and say, he will be good, he will too, he won't, etc just on a whim, without knowing anything about players. I have formed opinions based in collected information. By your estimates the Coaches and scouts are just guessing too. If they collect information and I collect information then how is my prediction a guess and theirs is not? How can I be adament that Johnny Manzeil will not succeed and back it up with sound reasoning and some NFL team can get it wrong despite having so much more information?

Your assertion that every draft produces good players and bad players so it is certain that teams will have a high percentage of failure is true but I am talking about round1 and 2. If a team has the first pick in the draft that means they chose 1 player out of a couple hundred. They had several hundred possible players to choose from and months to figure out which is the best and it gets screwed up often. Teams get the top ten picks wrong often. All that extra information that they have and I don't, yet they can get it wrong and I can get it right. go figure.

Now how you presume to know that Jimmy Kennedy would be good if he was drafted by the Ravens is revealing. Jimmy Kennedy wouldn't have been good with any team. The fact that you believe that he could, sheds some light on things. He wasn't good with the Rams, he wasn't good on a very good Vikings defense, he wasn't even that good on PSUs defense. However you believing that Jimmy Kennedy would be good if the Ravens had drafted him, is indicative of why you wont ever accept that a fan can accurately predict a draft pick based on watching games, interviews, and reading about that player. Because you yourself have no understanding of the process or how to go about it. Until you try it with a real concerted effort and spend the time that many fans do, you really have no idea how accurate a fans picks are. It really is not that difficult to see which players are good. I am not sure why it is so difficult for you. The fact that you struggle with evaluations explains why you cannot accept that it is possible for others to accurately predict picks. I guess in that case there is nothing more to say that can convince you otherwise about that topic, other than that not understanding something doesn't mean it is wrong.

 

[jrry32]

No, that's not all I'm saying. It's one of the many reasons I list that any NFL front office is going to be better than fans at scouting (along with the time they have to do it versus fans, and the fact that their livelihood depends on it). Your comment about Jimmy Kennedy - I would guess that anyone drafted in the first round, a scout or coach will watch every snap they played. So at best, you're tied with them for how much you probably saw him. On top of that though, they would be given access to film that you wouldn't. Not sure why you would think you could possibly watch a player more than an NFL team/scout?? Even one from your favorite college team. You have a full time job. That IS their full time job.

As Elm said, this is incorrect. Scouts do not have nearly enough time to watch every game and neither do coaches. Typically, the area scout will visit the school once or twice during the season and watch a few games on film while there while also interacting with coaches/trainers/etc. to get a feel for their character and medical. Then they'll watch practice. They'll write up the report and leave.

If the team is serious about a player, they'll send a national scout or one of the top dogs in the personnel department to watch him play and view more film on him. The coaches don't get involved until late in the process (after the season ends).

It's highly unlikely that a single person has watched every snap they played...especially of guys who started multiple years.

 

[Dodgersrf]

The more I watch Mannion, the more I like him. From what I understand, he has improved quite a bit since the season ended by working on mechanics and footwork also. The tools are there. Big arm? Check. Ability to run a pro style offense? Check. Prototypical NFL QB measurements? Big Check.

I will bet on a mature, intelligent QB with those tools to progress further at the NFL level than a less mature or intelligent player who may look better coming out. Again, that's just me.

Yeah, I'm with you. I watched some games from '13 and '12. He looked more comfortable with some protection and weapons.
There seems to be a skill-set to work with. He needs time though.

 

[VegasRam]

My eyes are starting to glaze over.
Could be the wine tho...
Honestly, I am (was) not in the camp thinking we had to draft a QB.
And I believe it's very probable Snisher weren't either.
Actually, neither was Seattle - they had Flynn - but saw something they liked.
As did the Rams.
Grayson , Petty and Hundley = Ponder, Locker and Gabbert.
Mannion is for real.

'Course, having never played Madden, what do I know.