You’ve got to see Rams Joseph Noteboom to believe him

[BonifayRam]

He is too tall for a guard. His legs are more susceptible to injury on the inside.
I hope they do not use him at guard.

Are you speaking of the lower stick legs of Noteboom?

WR Josh Reynolds might have larger lower legs than #70.

 

[“Turbo set!”]

Are you speaking of the lower stick legs of Noteboom?

WR Josh Reynolds might have larger lower legs than #70.

Exactly.

That is why it didn’t surprise me he was injured.

 

[shovelpass]

Blythe being destroyed by Michael Brockers who let's face it isn't the best NT Austin is going to face

It's actually Donald, who destroys most OL and is the best DL that he'll face but don't let that stop you from endlessly bashing our players and coaches. Also people blink.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

WTF? It’s 2020,not 2021

There is still time & players develop

My question would be,want would have happened without Whitworth & Blythe this season?

There is a difference between developing and not showing signs of being able to handle the job. I like to see some flash plays. That shows that a player can develop. I didn't see them with Noteboom at guard. If he's such a wonderful prospect at tackle then why sign Whitworth for all of that money and three years? Wouldn't it be wise to put the cheap young stud in at OLT next year?

That's all well and good, but I can counter it with the opposite. Again, 6 total games a career does not make. He has proven teachers to develop him. Also, the downfall of the OL mostly happened AFTER he went out, due to a number of other factors as well.

I'm not saying it's a foregone conclusion that Joe Noteboom is gonna be a stud. What I'm saying is that he should be given a chance. This current staff drafted him, and obviously like him enough to keep him around and not get his replacement like some on the internet clamor for.

Let. Him. Develop.

What in his games at guard made you think he will develop there?

I speak my opinions on a regular basis around here. I've said more times than I can count I'm not ruling out any players before the season starts nor any schemes we run until the players are coached and we see them on the field. Scrimmages like yesterday mean exactly jack shit. We all know from watching this sport for as long as we have that the defense is always favored in these early stretches.

Lets take a look at the OLine when we had our last great offensive season before everybody lost their minds.

LT Whitworth we'll just use your description on him and say he excels in pass pro.
Saffold was very good in run blocking and above average in pass pro
Sullivan like Blythe excelled at neither wasn't bad at either but wasn't good either.
Blythe started the majority of the games at RG and while he was better in 2018 than last year he isn't good at either pass or run blocking, to hear most around here he's terrible aside from his knowledge of the line blocking calls.
Havenstein we'll use your description of him as well.

So how is this line that's little changed from 2018 suddenly so terrible? That team was #2 in scoring #3 in rushing #5 in passing.

Was Saffold so all world that we went from a top 5 line to atrocious? He was good but I think we've seen some injuries cause a major problem last year and two young guys who weren't as ready to start as the 9 year vet Saffold and the 10 year vet Sullivan. Those are their years of experience as of the 2018 season.

Everybody is entitled to their opinions and has the right to give them, I certainly do for mine. And everybody has the right to disagree with somebody else's opinions and explain why. I think I've made it perfectly clear over the many years that I'm not going to assume anything before the season has even started, especially after one scrimmage. I'm also pretty certain I've made it absolutely clear I'm not going to cut somebody or say the idiotic things that people around here say about players after a handful of bad games and most definitely not going to do that or suggest we cut them after those games took place in their first run of starts. Do I think that this oline is going to be among the Rams greats all time? No not really, but I doubt they're going to be as bad as all the cool kids seem to be predicting around here.

Short memory. 6 man fronts destroyed the line and every other team followed suit the next year. They aren't strong enough up the middle to run inside, especially with Saffold gone.

Saffold had a solid rookie year, stunk up the joint before getting injured in his second year, and then had some up and down play and injuries in the subsequent years. He didn't emerge as a very good to great OG until Kromer and Whitworth arrived. Before that, he was more of an average player.



It's worth keeping in mind that Noteboom was also playing his first real football at Guard in his life. He played Tackle in college. And he was doing so on an OL that was out of sorts next to a Center who was an abject disaster. The line didn't gel until later in the season. What's significant to me is the fact that David Edwards, who played solid football as a rookie, has been supplanted by Noteboom, while Brian Allen isn't running with the 1's.

We might just find out that part of Noteboom's struggles last year were due to the guy next to him (with the other part being inexperience). I trust our offensive staff. If Noteboom is pushing Edwards to the bench, he must be showing something. It's also worth remembering that Bobby Evans is another guy who could play OG if Noteboom wasn't showing anything. It's not like we lack depth now. Let's wait and see.

Saffold looked very good the first time we saw him at guard. It was the injuries that took away from his play. It was obvious he would excel as a guard once moved inside, it he could stay healthy.

Noteboom still wasn't strong enough after 4 years in a college weight room and two in an NFL weight room. How does he miraculously find the strength? I've lifted weights for many years. There are some things that just can't be changed without steroids. His targeting on second level blocks was atrocious, almost as bad as Allen's. That's a vision problem along with speed and quickness. His strength at the point of attack was inadequate for run blocking. I don't think any of that gets coached into a player. He's a pass blocker primarily and the fact that he's at guard either tells me that Kromer is in love with agile lateral movers, none of the other options are any better or don't really fit the scheme (ouch Les Snead). I guess that may be different if they had more cap room. They may have made some changes, but Oline is an expensive position to fill in free agency. Supposedly they would have picked Ruiz if they had a first round pickk. If he wasn't ready to start at Center it's likely he'd he's be the starting LG.

 

[Angry Ram]

What in his games at guard made you think he will develop there?

I don't know. I'm not a coach or a scout. All I'm saying is 6 games does not a career make. Let the man develop, who knows if he becomes an all-pro or someone that should be replaced. What bugs is that people seem to jump to the latter based on very small sample size.

What's more likely, with the vast majority of players is he becomes a JAG. Not the best, not horrible and somewhere in the middle until the team finds an obvious upgrade or he leaves on his own.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

I don't know. I'm not a coach or a scout. All I'm saying is 6 games does not a career make. Let the man develop, who knows if he becomes an all-pro or someone that should be replaced. What bugs is that people seem to jump to the latter based on very small sample size.

What's more likely, with the vast majority of players is he becomes a JAG. Not the best, not horrible and somewhere in the middle until the team finds an obvious upgrade or he leaves on his own.

Not a coach either but I’ve seen a lot of football and there is good and bad that stands out. I see more bad with Notebooms game. I was seriously asking you what you saw btw. I’d look for it next chance I get.

I know some people are thinking I’m rooting against a lot of these guys. I’m not. I hope they all surprise me and the Rams end up with the best Oline in the game. I’ll eat crow gladly. But I really can’t see that happening. We’ve seen some good Oline play in the league and it looks much better than what we saw from this group all last year. In the end that is the true comparison imo.

But your comment about even if he’s just a jag and a placeholder. That’s the part that drives me crazy. The window is open with the defense, the WB, WRs TE. If this line takes three to four years to get ironed out, how many of these great players are going to be in decline or on other teams? Olinemen can take a few years to develop, even for the really good ones. I think they are short a few studs and a bunch of mediocre will not get the job done before the window closes. To me I feel urgency but it seems very few others do. If I’m a GM Oline is my start point and needs constant attention for maintenance.

 

[oldnotdead]

He is too tall for a guard. His legs are more susceptible to injury on the inside.

I hope they do not use him at guard.

I assume you are talking about Noteboom. I'm completely with you bro and it's why I don't like Kromer at all. He played Edwards who came in as one of the more raw rookies at RG last year. Like Noteboom, he's built to play OT not OG. Meanwhile, he had Evans playing at RT who has the feet and the build of an OG not OT. He was all ass backwards last year and people want to know why it was a clusterF**? He totally ruined Demby with all his BS cross-training of a rookie who needed to learn to be an OG much less playing OT and center as well. Kromer is an arrogant ass who does fine with vets but has no clue with rookies. IMO he has destroyed Demby with his nonsense. Demby may or may not have become a solid player, but now he's got confidence issues as reflected by Brockers in Hard Knocks. This could be the end of any chance for Demby. How many more rookies will you let Kromer and Dickerson destroy?

If anyone out there has played either o-line or d-line you understand how to use power and leverage and hand play. All those things matter and physical metrics matter. Arm length, height are legitimate concerns. OG is about playing with power and leverage which dictates the OG keeps his pads low. Any OT is about quick feet, height and length to give a good play radius. With the increased mandate for keeping 9 o-line on the roster the need to cross-train isn't the pressing need, it was before. OG's to play both sides, OTs to play both sides and a Center. I get the need to have your OGs being able to play both sides inside, the same as OT's being able to play both sides. But to expect an OG to also play OT and play it well makes no sense because the physical nature of the play at their respective positions is completely different.

Edwards played as well as can be expected at RG when his height was a disadvantage, making it difficult to keep his pad level down. Yet he had Evans who came in far more polished and had the physical metrics you want in an OG playing OT. WTF??? Then people say these guys can't play because they struggle when the damn coach plays to their weaknesses, not their strengths? Sorry people but I know good coaching when I see it and Kromer hasn't shown me that kind of judgment.

The NFL is technique heavy and when you play people out of position you put them at a distinct disadvantage. Yes, it happens when you have no choice. But the Rams did have choices. Doesn't it seem weird that an O-line coach would play both his projected starting OT's at OG, a position neither has ever played? Then playing a guy I'm sure they originally projected as a RG at RT? Every legitimate player profile had Evans moving inside to OG for two reasons. He lacks the physical metrics to play OT at this level but he has very good metrics to play inside at OG. He's the classic height, weight, arm length, and although he lacks the feet to mirror on the outside he's got good enough quickness to play in the OG phone booth. So why didn't Kromer move Edwards to RT when Havenstein went out and play Evans at RG? They knew Evans didn't have the feet to play outside so on many plays they were forced to provide TE help with chip blocks and he still struggled. That is why I have always said it's not player talent that is the issue. It's coaching decisions that doomed last year's o-line.

When teams struggle that is when coaches rise to the occasion or not. Hiring O'Connell as OC was IMO a rebuke to Kromer who was in effect the OC last year. So I think I'm not the only one questioning Kromer and Dickerson. I would rather see Whitworth as the 0-line coach next year I think he would be an excellent choice. He's already an on the field coach.

 

[DR RAM]

I’m not giving up on Boom yet. Kind of looking forward on what he’s made of. If he struggles it will be evident soon enough, which probably would have come in the preseason, in a normal year.

I don’t think he’ll be on a long leash, butI do think they’ll give him a little time to figure it out. I’m going to do some personal research, and refresh my mind with his struggles.

 

[BonifayRam]

I’m not giving up on Boom yet. Kind of looking forward on what he’s made of. If he struggles it will be evident soon enough, which probably would have come in the preseason, in a normal year.

I don’t think he’ll be on a long leash, butI do think they’ll give him a little time to figure it out. I’m going to do some personal research, and refresh my mind with his struggles.

Can not fault Noteboom with this situation ongoing @ LG. He goes to work @ the post that Kromer assign's him to.

Noteboom will make a fine starting LT in the NFL. He has all the natural physical traits to be an effective starting LT. He has a great wingspan that is used to redirect NFL pass rushers on a regular basis. He has great feet & mobility & has all the athletic ability to dance & mirror with the best NFL pass rushers. By the way just information purposes.... Noteboom during the combine of 2018 ran the best times in the 3 cones time drill, best 20 yd dash & the best 40 yd dash times of all 14 signed Ram OL'ers.

Ask the all pro LT Andrew Whitworth how well he was able to perform @ LG the first 3 years of his NFL career.

Joe Noteboom feels 'way more comfortable' now at guard

Joe Noteboom is hitting his stride at left guard this summer.

theramswire.usatoday.com

 

[DR RAM]

I rewatched the first game of last season, sole focus on Joseph Noteboom at LG. I came away very encouraged. I studied this on all 22 coaches film, and watched every offensive play, at least 3 times from every angle. I used to do play by play reports. I didn’t do that. I am just going to do more of a scouting report.

Best:

- Very fluid player, and his athleticism jumps out at you.
- Smooth footwork, utilizes quick choppy steps.
- Didn’t miss one assignment.
- Easily performs combo blocks on running plays. Maybe our best OL at that.
- Very adept at Slip, and zone blocks.
- Hands, and hand placement are very good.

Worst:

- Dropped head on initial pass blocks, lost balance.
- Leverage issues at times, too upright in his stance.
- Lacks hard punch, lacks hard finish.
- Inconsistent re-anchor.

Summary:

Noteboom is a very athletic player, and appeared to have a very fast learning curve in game. Most of the negatives from the worst list, disappeared after the first series. He stopped dropping his head, he anchored better, and he ended up with 3 pancakes.

Noteboom didn’t miss one assignment, and there were only two plays which resulted in negative plays, one of which he was covered, blocked his assignment, and then another DL came in full speed and engaged him. Goff still got the ball off, neither player got past Boom.

He had several key blocks in the game, including a couple GL plays, and Gurley’s longest runs in the game. In the run game Noteboom performed several combo blocks, including key on GL TD. Noteboom made Key 2 pulling kick out blocks during the game, sparking big runs.

Noteboom gets downfield easily, but he needs to break down better to engage smaller players (this is hard to do). He was still able to get pieces of players. If he had a more explosive punch, he would have had more pancakes downfield, as he had opportunities.

He is very alert in passing game, with his head on a swivel, very willing, and often helped when uncovered. He left his zone to help, a little early on one play, allowing a delayed blitzer to get late pressure. Didn’t see him do that again, he appears to be very coachable.

Grade for game B+, or 91, or 4.5 out of 5.

In this one game, I came away very encouraged. No missed assignments, major adjustments during the game, several key blocks. The one thing really missing for me was a lack of assertiveness, but as the game went on, he showed more and more of that.

I’m interested in reviewing game 2.

 

[LARAMSinFeb.]

snip

That was an eyeful--but can't say I disagree with any of it. Hope you're wrong, but I'm really concerned about our interior. Goff needs a sec.

Do you think Corbett is at least well-positioned at RG?

 

[DR RAM]

Just studied the 2nd game, and in the 1st half, And in 35 offensive plays, he only had 5 negative or zero impact plays. Of his 3 negative plays, the first one, he got bulled and walked back, his first play on a covered pass. He gave up a pressure.

His next neg play came on the first play in 2Q, 2nd series. He was covered, it was a stretch play, his side, he needed longer sustainment, his Man got his hand up toward his face.

The only other neg play was on the final series in 2Q., and it was a carbon copy of his last neg play, same play, same outcome, and his man had a hand near his face. He doesn’t seem to like that.

Now, the zero plays, are that they have no impact, not even a fake sell. Usually opposite side, or no opposition on the play.

That leaves 30 plus plays, it means he did his job, didn’t give up a sack, pressure, or a miss causing a tackle. He had zero missed assignments. Out of these plays, Noteboom had 4 ++ plays, which are either exceptional, or key blocks.

I know when the wheels came off the bus, Demby came in for Blythe at RG, and all hell broke loose.

Just a comment, in this game, in contrast to the first game, Noteboom was covered most of the game, so it was good to see two very different looks for him.

I am now very pumped to see Boom perform. I believe he’s a natural OLT, but performed extremely well with little experience at LG. If he can play with a little more edge, he’ll be great, and I do think he has the potential, if isn’t already a top 3 OL for us.

Thanks for reading.

 

[DR RAM]

I jumped to the game against the Shecocks. He played well, in fact, the whole OL played well through 3 1/2 quarters. RT Havenstein, RG Blythe, C Allen, LG Noteboom, and LT Whitworth.

In this game he got all kinds of looks, going against NT’s, Ansah, and Clowney. Very solid game. The Rams run over him on short yardage plays in every game I checked out.

I’m moving on from Boom, I expect him to be above average.

 

[Reddog99]

I jumped to the game against the Shecocks. He played well, in fact, the whole OL played well through 3 1/2 quarters. RT Havenstein, RG Blythe, C Allen, LG Noteboom, and LT Whitworth.

In this game he got all kinds of looks, going against NT’s, Ansah, and Clowney. Very solid game. The Rams run over him on short yardage plays in every game I checked out.

I’m moving on from Boom, I expect him to be above average.

I've yet to watch Noteboom very close on film but this definitely makes me feel better.

 

[Ram65]

I jumped to the game against the Shecocks. He played well, in fact, the whole OL played well through 3 1/2 quarters. RT Havenstein, RG Blythe, C Allen, LG Noteboom, and LT Whitworth.

In this game he got all kinds of looks, going against NT’s, Ansah, and Clowney. Very solid game. The Rams run over him on short yardage plays in every game I checked out.

I’m moving on from Boom, I expect him to be above average.

Thanks for all three posts and evaluations of Noteboom. I looked at the highlights of his last series where the Rams ran the ball down the Whiners throat. He looked good in that serious. You have to think that Kromer/McVay came to the same conclusion you have thus giving him back his starting spot makes sense. I see a lot of hope for the offensive line this year with a rejuvenated Havenstein and focused Whitworth.

 

[DR RAM]

Thanks for all three posts and evaluations of Noteboom. I looked at the highlights of his last series where the Rams ran the ball down the Whiners throat. He looked good in that serious. You have to think that Kromer/McVay came to the same conclusion you have thus giving him back his starting spot makes sense. I see a lot of hope for the offensive line this year with a rejuvenated Havenstein and focused Whitworth.

Over the next few days, I’m going to take a sample look at the last 4 or 5 games, to get a better idea of Corbett, Evans, and Edwards.

 

[Zaphod]

Also one other thing of note here, just irt the basic strengths of our current starting 5...

Whit: pass pro is his strength. He struggled much more in the run i.e. with the physicality side in 2019 which makes some sense given his cardio approach to sustain that longevity. He may bounce back of course, but just looking at last season he dipped considerably in the run game.

Boom: pass pro is his strength. He may have had a miraculous offseason in which he pulled an SJD and got a lot stronger and I hope that's the case. But looking just at last season the physicality was his weakness and an extension of that were his struggles in the run game.

Blythe: line calls are his strength. He isn't really good at run or pass blocking.

Corbett: pass pro is his strength. This guy has struggled with his run game since he came into the league and it's why he came available to us. Like with Boom who knows maybe he'll turn a corner in that run game but gonna need to see that.

Hav: run blocking is his strength. He's always been a plus run game dude who just survives in pass sets with his size.

Looking at this group overall it appears we will probably struggle running the ball.

I was thinking the same thing. It really appears that they have decided to prioritize pass protection, and it kind of makes sense because most teams seem hell bent on stopping the rush.

You gotta be good at something?

I think they already have a plan for changing things up on the right side should they really want to commit to a horizontal spread.

 

[Zaphod]

Everyone rips Noteboom's play but IMO that's not the case. The problem was Kromer threw him to the lions and simply didn't know (which he should have) that Noteboom wasn't ready. IMO Noteboom isn't the LG for the future. This year is supposed to be what last year was, to give him game experience before moving to LT. When he got hurt they had no choice but to re-sign Whitworth. What we are seeing in Joe is the result not only of the excellent training staff in Joe's rehab, but the mentoring of Whitworth. IMO Whitworth's calling is as an O-line coach. You can see him talking up the guys on the field, correcting their mistakes. If Joe plays well this year it will give them options with Whitworth next year.

That was the reason they played Edwards at RG last year to season him to take over at RT. Evans doesn't have any business playing OT at this level. He suffers from the same problem that Rob does, he's slow-footed. That was the knock on Rob in his predraft evals that he lacked the feet to play at OT in the NFL, and was too tall to play inside as he couldn't get his pads down as he must at OG. It's the same problem Edwards suffers from at RG and why they simply moved Corbett into that position. Next year if he plays well, Noteboom will move to LT with Corbett moving back to LG. Edwards will replace Havenstein at RT and Evans will move into the RG spot.

Blythe IMO isn't the center of the future. He was brought back exactly for this contingency, i.e. Allen not being ready. Allen may or may not play this year, depending on how the season goes and how well or not the o-line plays. Blythe's problem at center is two-fold IMO opinion. Watching his play be it at OG or center, he looks to lack good field vision and therefore field awareness. Once he commits, he struggles to disengage and lacks the athleticism and quickness to redirect. This lack of field vision and lack of quickness also shows in his hit or miss second-level blocking. For whatever reason Kromer doesn't seem to have confidence in Shelton who has the field vision and mobility you want in a center. IMO Kromer is much like Wade in that he doesn't like to play younger guys even if they might be better than the vet he's relying upon. The defensive book is clear on Blythe and was clearly evident in how teams played him, especially on passing downs. He's a very poor blocker if he's faced with speed. He also struggles to redirect, so many times the MIKE will simply wait until Blythe is engaged in a double and simply run right by him.

Blythe is a 5-year vet so he's all he's ever going to be. I'm hoping that this inside zone and power gap run attack which masks his flaws in run blocking. I only hope one that missed block in the passing game doesn't get Goff hurt. That will be mitigated by the emphasis on coaching up Goff to get rid of the ball quicker on time. Blythe is a COVID expedient until Allen is healthy enough to regain his starting position.

Sullivan was a fan favorite I get it. But his play wasn't as good, as some seem to suggest as it has been with Bythe as well. In his first starting year, Allen outplayed both. In the long run, I can see clearly why Snead didn't spend serious draft capital on the o-line this past draft. McVay simply hasn't had the guys healthy enough to implement the complete change. They have the talent to put together a very good o-line if they put them into a position that will simply play to the strengths of his players.

The change in the mandate of requiring at least 4 o-line active on game days will mitigate the need to continually cross-train. Through the years I have seen the value of cross-training the o-line, with one caveat that you do so with veterans who are already established and experienced in one position. When you do it like Kromer did last year with a bunch of rookies you retard their development. Rookies need to adjust to the speed of the game as well as the increased emphasis upon good technique. Now throw in constantly switching positions with the need to change techniques before they even have one position nailed down is foolish in the extreme. I'm not simply just an amateur observer seeing this, but several conversations with an ex-NFL Probowl lineman confirmed what I've seen. We saw the results in last year's camp when Kromer tried to do it with all the rookies. My friend should know because he was converted from a college DT to an NFL OG and it took him 4 years before he began his outstanding career.

From what I've seen they are practicing inside zone and gap blocking schemes for their run attack which I think will be largely between the tackles. The threat of a strong inside run game prevents the LBs from dropping too quickly and enhances the play-action game. Since few teams will be able to match up in man coverage with the 11 personnel of the Ram's pass attack Goff IMO will see a lot of zones. He needs to more quickly read the flavor of the zone and get rid of the ball faster, and from what I'm reading and seeing that is exactly what the Ram's are focused upon.

I really do think that he's going to look much better run blocking in a gap scheme at center, and with inside zone, the double teams should help him considerably.

 

[Angry Ram]

Not a coach either but I’ve seen a lot of football and there is good and bad that stands out. I see more bad with Notebooms game. I was seriously asking you what you saw btw. I’d look for it next chance I get.

IDK. Everytime I watch a game and the OL it all looks the same to me. A jumbled blob of humanity.

I know some people are thinking I’m rooting against a lot of these guys. I’m not. I hope they all surprise me and the Rams end up with the best Oline in the game. I’ll eat crow gladly. But I really can’t see that happening. We’ve seen some good Oline play in the league and it looks much better than what we saw from this group all last year. In the end that is the true comparison imo.

I never said people are rooting against them. I just don't understand the judgement on him with the very small sample size.

But your comment about even if he’s just a jag and a placeholder. That’s the part that drives me crazy. The window is open with the defense, the WB, WRs TE. If this line takes three to four years to get ironed out, how many of these great players are going to be in decline or on other teams? Olinemen can take a few years to develop, even for the really good ones. I think they are short a few studs and a bunch of mediocre will not get the job done before the window closes. To me I feel urgency but it seems very few others do. If I’m a GM Oline is my start point and needs constant attention for maintenance.

Who said give him 3 to 4 years? Obviously if a player doesn't show progress by then he's going to be a backup if he's lucky. More than likely out of the league.

Let him get bigger, stronger, more experience and let the coaches develop him during that.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

IDK. Everytime I watch a game and the OL it all looks the same to me. A jumbled blob of humanity.



I never said people are rooting against them. I just don't understand the judgement on him with the very small sample size.



Who said give him 3 to 4 years? Obviously if a player doesn't show progress by then he's going to be a backup if he's lucky. More than likely out of the league.

Let him get bigger, stronger, more experience and let the coaches develop him during that.

This is year 3. Make or break imo. If he doesn't show marked improvement then they need to move on from him at least starting at guard. I watch the games. Then I watch the game and so I no the plays, or I watch the all 22, and replay plays. It's a fun way I see the plays unfold and it really shows up who is missing blocks or getting beat at the line.