Why Did Belicheat Not Call a Time Out?

[kurtfaulk]

But I am not a conspiracy theorist and I think the deflating balls fiasco is dumb and a waste of time. I highly doubt the other 31 teams were following this rule.

and yet the first time it was tested only one team had deflated footballs. strange.

.

 

[mike_2133]

and yet the first time it was tested only one team had deflated footballs. strange.

.

Have they ever tested the footballs before in the history of the NFL? I've never heard of it.

 

[bluecoconuts]

Have they ever tested the footballs before in the history of the NFL? I've never heard of it.

I don't think so, but I know the Panthers complained in their game against the Seahawks though.

 

[mike_2133]

I don't think so, but I know the Panthers complained in their game against the Seahawks though.

Interesting. It's just weird to me that in the history of the NFL, this issue has never come up. I bet the majority (myself included) never even really considered that this specifically could become the issue. Whether you like NE or not, I think you have to give them that their smarter than to do something so explicitly obvious.

 

[Boffo97]

I think cheating is subjective, people who played the game 100 years ago may look at the game now and think that the forward passing, gloves, etc is cheating. Hell look at warfare, it was considered cheating to hide behind trees and ambush enemy soldiers during the revolutionary war, but if you asked someone about it now they wouldn't think so. That doesn't excuse the Patriots for anything they may have done, but it's probably part of why its a bigger deal to some than others.

Rule changes and cheating aren't the same thing. If they change the rule to say that you can have the balls at whatever pressure you want (they won't because that makes a big difference) and the Patriots continue to play with deflated balls then, that's just fine.

But deliberate violation of the rules as they are now is wrong and makes the game pointless. And I don't believe all 32 teams are doing that.

 

[Thordaddy]

Let's say hypothetically it was known that Brady didn't have anything to do with the footballs being deflated. You really think he is obligated to tell the referee? Every player who grabs a facemask, is offside, etc. who knows a rule is being broken is obligated to tell?

I'm absolutely saying if the feel was not to his liking he'd have said something, tactile feedback is very important,it's like if you have a weak key on a piano ,it throws you off

 

[mike_2133]

I'm absolutely saying if the feel was not to his liking he'd have said something, tactile feedback is very important,it's like if you have a weak key on a piano ,it throws you off

Sure, but when it is to his advantage, he's not going to say anything. Which is the point I'm getting at. When a bad penalty is called, the team who gets the advantage doesn't complain.

 

[bluecoconuts]

Rule changes and cheating aren't the same thing. If they change the rule to say that you can have the balls at whatever pressure you want (they won't because that makes a big difference) and the Patriots continue to play with deflated balls then, that's just fine.

But deliberate violation of the rules as they are now is wrong and makes the game pointless. And I don't believe all 32 teams are doing that.

Probably a bad example on my part, was more trying to convey that to someone this may seem like a huge plan from the get go to cheat, others may see it more as them just not saying anything or not a huge deal. Frankly in terms of the Indy game, I don't think it would have made a difference, the Colts got spanked up and down that field, and after the balls were replaced the Patriots were even better. Maybe the deflated balls were actually holding them back? I dunno, but I do know that players on every team in every sport will turn a blind eye to something if it helps them win. Shit last year I watched the Detroit Redwings score a goal against LA that went up into the net and out of play. The rules said they couldn't review the goal, and it counted, giving when LA had a 1 goal lead in the dying seconds of the game. Kings lost the game in the shootout.

Did the Detroit players know the puck was out of play? You bet your ass they did. Did they correct the ref? Not a chance.

If the balls were deflated in some plot then I would say that's different from the Patriots just keeping their mouth shut.

 

[Thordaddy]

Sure, but when it is to his advantage, he's not going to say anything. Which is the point I'm getting at. When a bad penalty is called, the team who gets the advantage doesn't complain.

So then you agree it's obvious Brady knew

 

[mike_2133]

So then you agree it's obvious Brady knew

I don't know if he didn't know, if he knew it was deflated but was unable to tell the difference 11.5 and 12.5 PSI, or if he was in on it.

All but 1 of the footballs were fairly close to the minimum. I don't know what the pressure of the balls that were actually use in the game were, but I imagine he doesn't know the difference if it's really close to the minimum.

 

[mike_2133]

Probably a bad example on my part, was more trying to convey that to someone this may seem like a huge plan from the get go to cheat, others may see it more as them just not saying anything or not a huge deal. Frankly in terms of the Indy game, I don't think it would have made a difference, the Colts got spanked up and down that field, and after the balls were replaced the Patriots were even better. Maybe the deflated balls were actually holding them back? I dunno, but I do know that players on every team in every sport will turn a blind eye to something if it helps them win. crap last year I watched the Detroit Redwings score a goal against LA that went up into the net and out of play. The rules said they couldn't review the goal, and it counted, giving when LA had a 1 goal lead in the dying seconds of the game. Kings lost the game in the shootout.

Did the Detroit players know the puck was out of play? You bet your ass they did. Did they correct the ref? Not a chance.

If the balls were deflated in some plot then I would say that's different from the Patriots just keeping their mouth shut.

Yeah, I agree. If were arguing that Brady instructed that the ball be deflated well under the minimum pressure, that's one thing. If you think Brady wasn't involved but knew the ball was deflated, you really think he's going to tell the refs? Is that even his role? This is professional sports, it's not an unofficiated rec league.

People are arguing Brady should be suspended for a season. The logic to that is beyond me. If any other QB did it, we'd be arguing for a $25,000 fine. McSorley got a two minute penalty in 93' for an illegal curved stick!

 

[bluecoconuts]

Yeah, I agree. If were arguing that Brady instructed that the ball be deflated well under the minimum pressure, that's one thing. If you think Brady wasn't involved but knew the ball was deflated, you really think he's going to tell the refs? Is that even his role? This is professional sports, it's not an unofficiated rec league.

People are arguing Brady should be suspended for a season. The logic to that is beyond me. If any other QB did it, we'd be arguing for a $25,000 fine. McSorley got a two minute penalty in 93' for an illegal curved stick!

Don't remind me of that stick!

 

[Boffo97]

Probably a bad example on my part, was more trying to convey that to someone this may seem like a huge plan from the get go to cheat, others may see it more as them just not saying anything or not a huge deal. Frankly in terms of the Indy game, I don't think it would have made a difference, the Colts got spanked up and down that field, and after the balls were replaced the Patriots were even better. Maybe the deflated balls were actually holding them back? I dunno, but I do know that players on every team in every sport will turn a blind eye to something if it helps them win. crap last year I watched the Detroit Redwings score a goal against LA that went up into the net and out of play. The rules said they couldn't review the goal, and it counted, giving when LA had a 1 goal lead in the dying seconds of the game. Kings lost the game in the shootout.

Did the Detroit players know the puck was out of play? You bet your ass they did. Did they correct the ref? Not a chance.

If the balls were deflated in some plot then I would say that's different from the Patriots just keeping their mouth shut.

First off, I don't see any way it could have just happened that the balls were deflated and the Patriots weren't to blame. The "rogue ballboy" theory makes no sense because there's no motivation there.

And there's a difference between keeping your mouth shut on a bad call in your favor (after all, you can't get the call changed any more than the opponent can) and just rolling with it when something in the game isn't right. Maybe I'm naive but I have no doubt that Bradford would instantly feel the ball, know something is wrong, and inform the official so it could be corrected. Brady's statements that he didn't know fail the smell test.

 

[bluecoconuts]

I don't think Bradford would, I'd like to think he would, but I don't think so. In fact I wouldn't be shocked if Bradford liked an overinflated football, it would certainly explain why so many guys have issues with drops when he throws them the ball, when they didn't previously. If I had to take a guess he likes it right near the upper limit, and if one was more inflated beyond regulations he'd happily use it.

 

[Boffo97]

I don't think Bradford would, I'd like to think he would, but I don't think so. In fact I wouldn't be shocked if Bradford liked an overinflated football, it would certainly explain why so many guys have issues with drops when he throws them the ball, when they didn't previously. If I had to take a guess he likes it right near the upper limit, and if one was more inflated beyond regulations he'd happily use it.

Until there's some kind of credible accusation otherwise, I choose to believe the Rams play within the rules. If you disagree, that's your right.

 

[bluecoconuts]

Until there's some kind of credible accusation otherwise, I choose to believe the Rams play within the rules. If you disagree, that's your right.

I don't necessarily think they go about cheating, but I don't think that every player is just so altruistic that they would never break the rules or would immediately ensure that if anything was wrong they'd run to tell the refs. We've had players pop hot for drugs, we've had players with off the field issues, etc. Sam is a fierce competitor, I think he'd do just about anything to win. I do think his line would be intentionally going out and attempting to cheat before a game started, I don't think he would run to the refs to inform them if he was getting a slight advantage over something like this.

Similar to when players always give themselves a favorable spot, it's technically cheating because you're trying to give yourself extra ground that you did not actually earn, yet there's not an outrage every game about players attempting it. Every team does it, so while not everyone is scheming to break rules, they'll all happily place the ball a little further than it is, and happily accept if the refs don't catch it. Just like if they get away with a hold, or a facemask or something similar, they'll happily let it go.

Now if the Patriots did in fact go and alter the footballs before the game that would be one thing, but if they just happened to benefit from it happening then that's another thing. Now reports are saying that only one ball was really deflated, 2 pounds under the minimum, the rest were just a few ticks under. So perhaps Brady likes lower pressure, which the temperature drop would certainly allow for a few ticks under the minimum. 2 pounds would be different, as there wouldn't be enough of a temperature change to cause that however. If the reports are true that it was in fact only 1 ball, then I would say it doesn't appear to be some big scheme.

I don't know, I just believe if there is very solid evidence or proof that the Patriots did in fact alter the footballs then that would be one thing, but right now I don't see any proof of that, and the evidence has been contradictory in some cases. Maybe it's all a big cover up, but at this point that remains to be seen.

 

[Mojo Ram]

In fact I wouldn't be shocked if Bradford liked an overinflated football,

Well i hate to be "that guy" because it doesn't really matter as it pertains to this debate....but the fact is that Sam does not like an over inflated ball. Go to the 8 minute mark.
[av]http://cdn.stationcaster.com/stations/wwls/media/mp3/Sam_Bradford-1422475664.mp3[/av]

 

[Boffo97]

I don't necessarily think they go about cheating, but I don't think that every player is just so altruistic that they would never break the rules or would immediately ensure that if anything was wrong they'd run to tell the refs. We've had players pop hot for drugs, we've had players with off the field issues, etc. Sam is a fierce competitor, I think he'd do just about anything to win. I do think his line would be intentionally going out and attempting to cheat before a game started, I don't think he would run to the refs to inform them if he was getting a slight advantage over something like this.

Similar to when players always give themselves a favorable spot, it's technically cheating because you're trying to give yourself extra ground that you did not actually earn, yet there's not an outrage every game about players attempting it. Every team does it, so while not everyone is scheming to break rules, they'll all happily place the ball a little further than it is, and happily accept if the refs don't catch it. Just like if they get away with a hold, or a facemask or something similar, they'll happily let it go.

Now if the Patriots did in fact go and alter the footballs before the game that would be one thing, but if they just happened to benefit from it happening then that's another thing. Now reports are saying that only one ball was really deflated, 2 pounds under the minimum, the rest were just a few ticks under. So perhaps Brady likes lower pressure, which the temperature drop would certainly allow for a few ticks under the minimum. 2 pounds would be different, as there wouldn't be enough of a temperature change to cause that however. If the reports are true that it was in fact only 1 ball, then I would say it doesn't appear to be some big scheme.

I don't know, I just believe if there is very solid evidence or proof that the Patriots did in fact alter the footballs then that would be one thing, but right now I don't see any proof of that, and the evidence has been contradictory in some cases. Maybe it's all a big cover up, but at this point that remains to be seen.

I agree that teams let little things slide all the time. But in this case, especially now, I think Sam would report it just for CYA purposes.

I don't know about this whole just one ball thing... it honestly smells to me after NFL cover up, especially since a report came out earlier that the officials did not log the PSI in each ball.

 

[Stranger]

I don't necessarily think they go about cheating, but I don't think that every player is just so altruistic that they would never break the rules or would immediately ensure that if anything was wrong they'd run to tell the refs. We've had players pop hot for drugs, we've had players with off the field issues, etc. Sam is a fierce competitor, I think he'd do just about anything to win. I do think his line would be intentionally going out and attempting to cheat before a game started, I don't think he would run to the refs to inform them if he was getting a slight advantage over something like this.

Similar to when players always give themselves a favorable spot, it's technically cheating because you're trying to give yourself extra ground that you did not actually earn, yet there's not an outrage every game about players attempting it. Every team does it, so while not everyone is scheming to break rules, they'll all happily place the ball a little further than it is, and happily accept if the refs don't catch it. Just like if they get away with a hold, or a facemask or something similar, they'll happily let it go.

Now if the Patriots did in fact go and alter the footballs before the game that would be one thing, but if they just happened to benefit from it happening then that's another thing. Now reports are saying that only one ball was really deflated, 2 pounds under the minimum, the rest were just a few ticks under. So perhaps Brady likes lower pressure, which the temperature drop would certainly allow for a few ticks under the minimum. 2 pounds would be different, as there wouldn't be enough of a temperature change to cause that however. If the reports are true that it was in fact only 1 ball, then I would say it doesn't appear to be some big scheme.

I don't know, I just believe if there is very solid evidence or proof that the Patriots did in fact alter the footballs then that would be one thing, but right now I don't see any proof of that, and the evidence has been contradictory in some cases. Maybe it's all a big cover up, but at this point that remains to be seen.

For what it's worth, I'd say there is a huge difference between players trying to gain an advantage on an individual ad hoc basis, and a team like the Cheatriots who have implemented an institutionalized and highly strategic program of gaining advantage, whether inside or outside the rules, that is operated across executive, management and player level. And when the advantage is found to be outside existing rules, a coordinated and deceptive effort is crafted to change the rules.

 

[bluecoconuts]

Well i hate to be "that guy" because it doesn't really matter as it pertains to this debate....but the fact is that Sam does not like an over inflated ball. Go to the 8 minute mark.
[av]http://cdn.stationcaster.com/stations/wwls/media/mp3/Sam_Bradford-1422475664.mp3[/av]

Well then what the hell is the reason why everyone is dropping so many of his damn passes? Lets just hope if the Rams get that outdoor stadium and a home game in January they don't test Sam's footballs then.

I agree that teams let little things slide all the time. But in this case, especially now, I think Sam would report it just for CYA purposes.

I don't know about this whole just one ball thing... it honestly smells to me after NFL cover up, especially since a report came out earlier that the officials did not log the PSI in each ball.

Probably, but there wasn't enough proof for me to "convict" in the first place. A lot of players seem to think it's not a big deal, maybe they're all being directed to protect the shield as well, but I'm inclined to think it's not a big deal.

For what it's worth, I'd say there is a huge difference between players trying to gain an advantage on an individual ad hoc basis, and a team like the Cheatriots who have implemented an institutionalized and highly strategic program of gaining advantage, whether inside or outside the rules, that is operated across executive, management and player level. And when the advantage is found to be outside existing rules, a coordinated and deceptive effort is crafted to change the rules.

If they change the rules they change the rules, I'm not a fan of the Patriots obviously, but I don't think everything they do is automatically cheating, even if they've done it first. At any rate, it's too late now the NFL has seemingly made up their mind, and most experts agree it's not a big deal. I think it's a lot of people looking for a story now.