Where Austin Davis, Shaun Hill fit for Rams/Wagoner

[goldenram]

Give Davis or Hill that Baltimore or Tampa O-line and Defense and I think the Rams roll with Davis. Our defense ended the year very strong but we certainly didn't help our offense much at the beginning. I know a lot of people don't like Davis for his turn overs - especially the ones that resulted in points. But IMO Dilfer would have tanked even worse.

I know it's not a popular belief but I think Davis DOES have some upside. Do I want him as our starter? Hell no. But could he be serviceable for a few or more games in relief? I think so - especially if he has a better O-line.

Think you are correct, gotta remember that Davis was up 21 on The Boys and our D couldn't stop their track meet. Davis was only bout one dropped pass away from coming back against Philly. Our D didn't finish a game till bout mid season. Davis and Hill both had their moments when the OLine played well. Hell, the OLine play is the reason Bradford can't survive a season. If we could manage to fix the OLine troubles and the D could play like the end of the season, even a Dilfer, Davis, or a Hill could win games.

 

[Dodgersrf]

Sort of amazing considering how much of a no miss Dilfer was considered leaving college.

Didn't he hold out after being drafted?

 

[Sleepy1711]

Didn't he hold out after being drafted?

I hope not cuz that guy sucked ass...

 

[Amitar]

Shaun Hill maybe OK, Austin Davis no way.

 

[fearsomefour]

Didn't he hold out after being drafted?

Man, I don't remember.
I just remember being desperate for the Rams to draft him....I was convince he was The Man.

 

[Dodgersrf]

Man, I don't remember.
I just remember being desperate for the Rams to draft him....I was convince he was The Man.

Well, he did have a mean fast ball. Teams often fall in love with a strong arm.

 

[Rams43]

I dunno, fellas...

Perhaps we're underestimating Davis.

Check this out... http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/passing/sort/quarterbackRating

Note the QB's rated below him. Including Dalton, Foles, Glennon, among others.

Quite a few have been suggested as possible Ram acquisitions for this offseason. Ironic, is't it?

And let's remember that Davis was forced to play behind a disappointing OL plus GW's D was also playing miserably before finally hitting their stride in the second half of the season.

Is it possible that Davis might be a pleasant surprise if he gets a chance behind our "fixed" OL and a top 5 D this year?

I'm not suggesting as a starter, but as a backup? Perhaps the best backup QB is sitting there right under our noses?

Unless the kid was psychologically damaged by last season in the blender?

Just some food for thought.

 

[fearsomefour]

Well, he did have a mean fast ball. Teams often fall in love with a strong arm.

True enough.
He is sort of the poster boy (along with J George, Boller and others) for arm strength ruling draft day.

 

[WestCoastRam]

I'll wait to see how pro-days go and the combine but I gotta say, from what I know now about the QBs not named Mariota and Winston in the draft, I'm almost of the opinion of keeping Davis and Hill. I think Davis showed that he's actually got some stuff to work with and I think he played better than other recently drafted QBs (see Geno Smith and EJ Emanual). I'm by no means saying that Davis can get any better as a player (though there's a small chance) but what I'm saying is that I don't see any QBs in the draft being better then him or more of a developmental prospect. Again, I'll wait to see more of the QBs but that's how I'm feeling now. If I had to choose between a Hundley or Petty and Davis... I'd choose Davis right now.

 

[Thordaddy]

Shaun Hill maybe OK, Austin Davis no way.

http://www.nfl.com/teams/st.louisrams/statistics?team=STL
PlayerAttCompYdsComp %Yds/AttTDTD %INTINT %LongSckSack/LostRating
Austin Davis284180200163.47.0124.293.2592917985
.1Shaun Hill229145165763.37.283.573.1631811683.9Johnny Hekker2237100.018.500.000.01900118.8

Both were 3-5
considering two of HILLS 'WINS' were shutouts and two of Davis' were the Broncos and Seahawks it's hard for me to imagine anyone doesn't KNOW that our defense failed Davis miserably and came through for Hill in much greater measure.

IF and I know it's a big if ,but IF our defense had played as well for Davis and he'd had above average o-line play ,Hill would never have gotten back on the field.
Is Davis the answer? ardunno, but money and productivity equal amount of experience Davis is a better bet now.

 

[Thordaddy]

I'm comparing Dilfer to other QBs. I am kind of over stating my hatred for his game. I just don't see him as better than Davis or Hill when he was playing. Give Davis or Hill that Baltimore or Tampa O-line and Defense and I think the Rams roll with Davis. Our defense ended the year very strong but we certainly didn't help our offense much at the beginning. I know a lot of people don't like Davis for his turn overs - especially the ones that resulted in points. But IMO Dilfer would have tanked even worse.

I know it's not a popular belief but I think Davis DOES have some upside. Do I want him as our starter? Hell no. But could he be serviceable for a few or more games in relief? I think so - especially if he has a better O-line.

I think this deserves to be said again and again, and gthe idea that Davis has no upside is ludicrous EVERYONE his age has upside if they will work on it

 

[FrankenRam]

I have to disagree on the thought that Davis can get better. I really do not believe Austin Davis showed anything to believe that he will ever have greater success than the 12:9 TD to INT ratio he had. I think he incredibly over performed for what his talent level is. I think the success he had was 100% an aberration and any chance he gets in the NFL in the future is going to trend toward his bad performances this season rather than the surprises he had.

Sorry to be so negative...but if we are looking for a long term back up (because I think we are all on the same page in that neither guy is a viable "competition for starting"), neither Davis nor Hill are that guy IMO.

I kinda thought Davis lost all confidence once he experienced some adversity. And then started to try and do TOO much on every play. Kinda got that doe in the headlights look. I don't know if he can get better, but if he could get past that case of mental 'yips', he might be a decent backup. Maybe.

I was a little disappointed Fisher didn't give him at least some situational playing time once they were eliminated from the playoffs just to see if, with the pressure off, he could get past that overwhelmed mentality.

 

[LesBaker]

Always thought Davis should have not been benched because the season was lost , he;d had two high quality wins and he showed the resiliency to recover in game. IOW an upside that anyone claimed they knew wasn't there was projecting opinion as if it was fact

I was disappointed with that move as well. I felt like they should have let him develop.

I also thought it was funny that Hill made as many or more mistakes yet didn't get beaten up as badly by fans. Not sure why.

Posters, some anyway, are mad at the FO office for not having a developmental QB on the roster and I shake my head because that's EXACTLY what Davis is in my opinion and that's exactly why I would have kept him as the starter, so he could develop and get real game experience. I also feel like he proved the lights weren't to bright so to speak. Yeah he made mistake but he's practically a rookie and is going to make mistakes, especially against the defenses he faced!

Davis could be this teams starter in 2017. They need to keep him of the practice squad and on the roster so he can at least get real coaching.

 

[LesBaker]

http://www.nfl.com/teams/st.louisrams/statistics?team=STL
PlayerAttCompYdsComp %Yds/AttTDTD %INTINT %LongSckSack/LostRating
Austin Davis284180200163.47.0124.293.2592917985
.1Shaun Hill229145165763.37.283.573.1631811683.9Johnny Hekker2237100.018.500.000.01900118.8

Both were 3-5
considering two of HILLS 'WINS' were shutouts and two of Davis' were the Broncos and Seahawks it's hard for me to imagine anyone doesn't KNOW that our defense failed Davis miserably and came through for Hill in much greater measure.

IF and I know it's a big if ,but IF our defense had played as well for Davis and he'd had above average o-line play ,Hill would never have gotten back on the field.
Is Davis the answer? ardunno, but money and productivity equal amount of experience Davis is a better bet now.

I think if you flipped the teams they played against some people would be calling for Davis to replace Bradford right now.

OK my work here is done.

 

[Thordaddy]

I think if you flipped the teams they played against some people would be calling for Davis to replace Bradford right now.

OK my work here is done.

I THINK YOU COULD BE RIGHT,120 POINTS YIELDED WHEN HILL WAS PLAYING, 154 WHEN DAVIS WAS ,WE SCORED 161 WHEN DAVIS WAS PLAYING 167 WHEN HILL WAS
DOUBLING EACH QB'S OFFENSIVE NUMBERS DAVIS 322 HILL 334
DOUBLING THE OTHERS DEFENSIVE SUPPORT DAVIS 240 HILL 308
IOW DAVIS GOT SHIT FOR DEFENSIVE SUPPORT HILL GOT MUCH BETTER

 

[Merlin]

Well let's start by assuming they go with 3 QBs this year on the roster. Starter>Backup>Development.

Starter will clearly be Bradford. Backup is what Fish talks about when he says it's about options. Development is going to be someone they like with some upside and rawness that they draft.

So if they sign a FA like McCown or Sanchez to "compete" with Bradford, or trade for similar option, that player effectively eats the backup role. That leaves Davis in a sort of limbo, where it's hard to say he's the guy with future upside along with the fact he doesn't have the contract longevity and value of a draftee. It leaves Hill in a world of hurt, he just doesn't fit because he's not good enough as proven by the fact that Fish wants "options" this year.

Davis' only real hope is that the Rams miss out on their guy in that round or two where they plan on taking him. Maybe they want Petty or Carden in the third round, but if they're gone, maybe Davis survives another year on the roster. But still, I'd say right now Davis is a longshot and Hill has no shot.

 

[RamFan503]

I THINK YOU COULD BE RIGHT,120 POINTS YIELDED WHEN HILL WAS PLAYING, 154 WHEN DAVIS WAS ,WE SCORED 161 WHEN DAVIS WAS PLAYING 167 WHEN HILL WAS
DOUBLING EACH QB'S OFFENSIVE NUMBERS DAVIS 322 HILL 334
DOUBLING THE OTHERS DEFENSIVE SUPPORT DAVIS 240 HILL 308
IOW DAVIS GOT crap FOR DEFENSIVE SUPPORT HILL GOT MUCH BETTER

Minor point but you have the defensive numbers reversed and Hill was the QB for the Denver game.

But it is actually more stark than that. During the time that Davis was behind center, we allowed 217 points if you take out the 21 from Davis turnovers. During Hill's time behind center, our defense allowed 109 points if you take away the TD fumble. That 217 points was in 8 1/2 games whereas the 109 was in 7 1/2 games. Is there a QB in the league in the last 10 years that had a winning percentage when his team allowed 25.5 points per game? Meanwhile, 14.5 points per game while Hill was in there is a bit more reasonable - no? And then you really have to consider that two of the wins with Hill were against the Raiduhs and Redskins - two highly dysfunctional teams with really poorly performing defenses.

I don't think anyone is making the case that Davis is the next coming of Brett Favre like some did after a couple good games early on but he also isn't the worst we could do IMO. Go back and watch the Philly game. With even a decent O-line and defensive effort, we win that game BECAUSE of Davis. See if you don't agree that he was the better QB on the field that day. IMO it's not even close.

 

[RamFan503]

Well let's start by assuming they go with 3 QBs this year on the roster. Starter>Backup>Development.

Starter will clearly be Bradford. Backup is what Fish talks about when he says it's about options. Development is going to be someone they like with some upside and rawness that they draft.

So if they sign a FA like McCown or Sanchez to "compete" with Bradford, or trade for similar option, that player effectively eats the backup role. That leaves Davis in a sort of limbo, where it's hard to say he's the guy with future upside along with the fact he doesn't have the contract longevity and value of a draftee. It leaves Hill in a world of hurt, he just doesn't fit because he's not good enough as proven by the fact that Fish wants "options" this year.

Davis' only real hope is that the Rams miss out on their guy in that round or two where they plan on taking him. Maybe they want Petty or Carden in the third round, but if they're gone, maybe Davis survives another year on the roster. But still, I'd say right now Davis is a longshot and Hill has no shot.

You may be right. But I can't see the upside in taking McCown. He's Hill 2.0 and IMO not even as good as Hill. He's a 12 year vet that had one decent "season" (5 games) in his entire career. I'd rather see Hill back as he at least knows the offense. Davis on the other hand could be the #2 for us next season as I don't think any of the draft choices will be ready to play during their rookie year. If one can beat out Davis, I'd say that is a good sign.

I'd be ok with Sam, Davis, and a developmental rookie. Not sure you have a lot of better actual options out there. Colt McCoy maybe? Sanchez would probably be better than either Davis or McCown or Hill depending on how much money he wants to be a back-up.

 

[Merlin]

You may be right. But I can't see the upside in taking McCown. He's Hill 2.0 and IMO not even as good as Hill. He's a 12 year vet that had one decent "season" (5 games) in his entire career. I'd rather see Hill back as he at least knows the offense. Davis on the other hand could be the #2 for us next season as I don't think any of the draft choices will be ready to play during their rookie year. If one can beat out Davis, I'd say that is a good sign.

I'd be ok with Sam, Davis, and a developmental rookie. Not sure you have a lot of better actual options out there. Colt McCoy maybe? Sanchez would probably be better than either Davis or McCown or Hill depending on how much money he wants to be a back-up.

I suppose it is fair to say that Davis has a chance to win that backup spot. But that's his only shot IMO outside of the Rams striking out in the draft on a developmental guy. He is really gonna have to bring it to stick on this roster this season.

McCown's stretch of play that season was more than decent, btw. I don't think he's any kind of long term answer but I see him as an upgrade over Hill. Better arm, has good height to see over center for a WCO attack, and played very well in the WCO in that one year in Chicago. Dishing the ball quick suits him in my estimation. I would prefer him over the other FA types personally. Reason he was cut is his age and the fact that Tampa is going to address QB with their first pick to build with that offense, but I think he can play solid QB for us if necessary and yes higher level of play than Hill would give us.

IMO it's gonna be him and Sanchez who the Rams pursue because neither require them to give up picks. I do fear they end up with a lesser option like Gabbert, but if it comes to that they might go ahead with a trade option at least I hope so. But either way no matter how I imagine things going down it's hard to see anything but a dogfight for Davis. Which is good right? Believe me I'd be very happy to see him win out, because I do think he's got some good instincts for the position I just don't like those big INTs.

 

[RamFan503]

I suppose it is fair to say that Davis has a chance to win that backup spot. But that's his only shot IMO outside of the Rams striking out in the draft on a developmental guy. He is really gonna have to bring it to stick on this roster this season.

McCown's stretch of play that season was more than decent, btw. I don't think he's any kind of long term answer but I see him as an upgrade over Hill. Better arm, has good height to see over center for a WCO attack, and played very well in the WCO in that one year in Chicago. Dishing the ball quick suits him in my estimation. I would prefer him over the other FA types personally. Reason he was cut is his age and the fact that Tampa is going to address QB with their first pick to build with that offense, but I think he can play solid QB for us if necessary and yes higher level of play than Hill would give us.

IMO it's gonna be him and Sanchez who the Rams pursue because neither require them to give up picks. I do fear they end up with a lesser option like Gabbert, but if it comes to that they might go ahead with a trade option at least I hope so. But either way no matter how I imagine things going down it's hard to see anything but a dogfight for Davis. Which is good right? Believe me I'd be very happy to see him win out, because I do think he's got some good instincts for the position I just don't like those big INTs.

Yeah - aside from McCown, I agree. I will have to admit that I didn't watch him all that closely but what I did see didn't impress me at all. I was at the Tampa game this year and Davis was the better QB in that game too. Just don't see how McCown offers us any advantage over Davis besides height and experience as a back-up. Between the two I'd take Davis.