What went wrong with our last title defense (2000), and how can we prevent it from happening again?

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Kupped

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The Rams currently have a front office and HC who work incredibly well together.

I see that as being the single biggest reason to think we won't see that kind of repeat... and, instead, a team that is a legitimate contender for the Super Bowl again.
 

Spider2YB

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Honestly as long as this team is healthy, they should at minimum be back in the NFCCG….and I’ll ride with AD, Ramsey, Kupp, and Stafford against anyone.
 

thirteen28

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Part of what made the 99 defense so good is you had several guys that had career years all at the same time. Lyght, Jones, Agnew, others that have been mentioned here. But after that, they fell off the next year and each of them was pretty much a spent force. Plus, Kevin Carter wanted a new deal and kind of half-assed it for much of the season and got traded out of town.
 

Classic Rams

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Here's a story with some reasons the Rams D fell off in 2000.


Martz's moves shake up Rams' defense

10/26/2000

Mike Martz is experiencing what drove Jimmy Johnson and Marty Schottenheimer out of the game. Only Martz is just fresh enough on the job -- just feisty enough, too -- that he has again sent a message to the rest of the NFL and his own team: the St. Louis Rams will not stick their heads in the sand just because they have an offense that is envied across the league.


Martz's response to the Rams' 54-34 loss to the Chiefs was to act on his prior instincts. He brought in Bud Carson to oversee the defense that has been too complex, fundamentally unsound and uninspired. He benched a pair of Pro Bowl players, Kevin Carter and Todd Lyght, for their lack of effort and poor performance.

Carter, a defensive end who led the NFL with 17 sacks in 1999, protested his benching loudly, saying he has indeed given his best effort. Martz not only challenged that assertion but he made it clear that if Carter continues to practice with the same indifference this week that he could even be inactive Sunday against the 49ers.

Is Martz overreacting? Not according to a Chiefs' coach, who told us one day after the game, "If I were (Martz), I'd bench Carter's rear end. Just preparing for this game, and then playing it Sunday, the Rams are getting cheated by that guy."

Yet, it is clear that Carter, and even Lyght, are playing as if the Rams were cheating them. Both guys had contract issues after the '99 season, apparently exacerbated by the Rams' Super Bowl title and their own first Pro Bowl selections.

Lyght was blocked from free agency by the Rams' franchise tag -- a salary that pays him a little more than $4 million, not bad chump change. Carter had one year remaining on his original six-year deal signed out of college as the team's No. 1 pick. His base salary for 2000 is $1.1 million (he originally received a $5 million signing bonus).

Carter had an opportunity to sign a multi-year contract. In fact, the Rams' brass had three "star" players to address after the Super Bowl -- Carter, quarterback Kurt Warner and wide receiver Isaac Bruce. They budgeted enough money to sign two of the three players to long-term deals, valued around $42 million with $12 million signing bonuses.

Carter was given the first shot to sign a new deal. He wanted more money. He rejected it. Warner and Bruce were next, and they took the packages, with some tweaking.

The consequence is that Carter now knows that the Rams will use the franchise tag on him when the season ends, which will restrict his leverage. The interpretation of Carter's lackluster play this year is that he is sulking over his contract. He denies it.

The asinine aspect is that Carter only hurts his value by hurting his team. NFL club executives have grown reluctant to overpay for disgruntled defensive linemen, having witnessed wasted money and draft picks for such players as Sean Gilbert, Chester McGlockton, Dana Stubblefield and Dan Wilkinson.

Lyght, at least, admitted that his contract hassles motivated him to skip the team's off-season conditioning program as well as a portion of training camp.

When Jimmy Johnson re-entered the NFL with the Miami Dolphins, it took him only a year to recognize that money had changed the game and the players. Likewise, Schottenheimer feels the salary cap has handcuffed coaches from taking appropriate action when players shut it down, such as Carter has with the Rams.

For Martz, the coach is showing healthy signs that he is the captain of the ship. If he has any repairs to do with the club, he is making them, even if he is somewhat responsible for breaking some parts himself.

How? When Dick Vermeil retired after the Super Bowl and Martz was promoted, he felt compelled to choose between one of the Rams' co-defensive coordinators -- Peter Giunta or John Bunting. Martz chose Giunta, who handled the secondary, over Bunting, who coached the front seven.

In hindsight, it may have been the wrong choice. Bunting brought more passion to the defense and clearly had more success motivating the likes of Carter.

But Giunta had served as an assistant under Carson, most recently in St. Louis before Carson retired in '97 after Vermeil's first year. Martz believes Carson is the greatest defensive coach in NFL history, so he wanted that lineage from Giunta.

Carson is so admired by Martz that he told me, "He can have any title he wants. He can be co-head coach, if he wants. He will help us immeasurably, on both sides of the ball."

That's interesting because it probably will take Martz's high-powered offense to assume a slightly different role.

One rival head coach suggested Martz will have to slow things down: "When you're ahead 28-10 and you score in three plays, do you think that's helping the defense? He's going to have to be a little more methodical until he's confident Bud has fixed some things."

Another head coach with Super Bowl experience suggested three weeks ago that Martz "knows he can't win in January with that defense, no matter how good his offense is ... it doesn't work that way in this league."

As a Rams' official also told me this week, "You know, the worst thing -- and maybe the easiest thing for Mike to do -- would have been to wait until February and say, 'Yep, I knew back in September that these things were going to cost us.'
 
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SWAdude

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Am I the only one that wonders what lessons we can learn from a team 22 plus years ago?

Rehashing that past will only haunt us today.

Maybe the better question would be how do we repeat next year.

Repeating is one of the most difficult accomplishments in sports. Like winning the Triple crown. (Horse racing)

The draft will likely not help us this next year. Or the year after to be truthful. So we have to rely on the appeal for some to come to the Rams in Free Agency. Also retain who we have.

With a healthy receiver core, we are good. Still sign OBJ. He could be very helpful sooner than later. Time will tell.

Our O-line needs some continuity. I think Big Whit has another year left. But we still need Noteboom. Lets see what happens. Corbett is replaceable.

Solid on the D-line. Would be nice to resign Joseph-Day but not a must do.

Good at Running back. Someone will get re-signed.

TE better than good. SB proved that.

Defensive backfield is not bad. Giving up 75 legitimate yards in the second half of the SB is pretty good. Six sacks helped as well. Team sport.

Would LOVE to get Von Miller back. No worries in the Linebackers there if we do.

Special teams is solid. Hekker worried me early but showed pro-bowl form late in the season. Pro-bowl kicker. Better than Money IMO.

Turnover in coaching gives me ZERO worries this year. Lost our OC and the tight-ends coach(?) Phillips. Like in this team those are not highly replaceable positions.

We need depth at virtually every position. Free agency will take care of that nicely. Being in LA helps much with all this.

I am feeling pretty damn good about next year.

Road trip next February to Arizona anyone?

GO RAMS!!!
 
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FaulkSF

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Don't let your defense get complacent and replace your aging offensive line.
 

SWAdude

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Don't let your defense get complacent and replace your aging offensive line.
With Big Whit the average of the o-line is 29.

Is that too old?

Noteboom is 26 and not included.
 

SWAdude

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Thanks. Long day dude, meant free agents.
Who can't understand that.

Also on a humble note, it was a serious question. I am not the Rams brainiac on this board for sure.

Get some good rest.

GO RAMS!!!
 

XXXIVwin

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Can't quite understand why this thread isn't overwhelmed with posts that state the glaring big point-- 2000 Rams were all O and no D.

2000 Rams weren't about Warner's broken finger. Or Hakim's muffed punt.

It was all about the crazy record setting offense, and the disaster on D, making for an exciting--yet mediocre-- 10-6 team.

From wiki on the Rams 2000 season:

The Rams became the first team in NFL history to score more than 500 points on offense, while allowing more than 450 points on defense.... The Rams' offense offset the team's defensive struggles: St. Louis' 471 points allowed in 2000 is the most ever surrendered by an NFL team with a winning record.[4] The Rams had the best offense in the league, but had the worst defense in the league.
 

XXXIVwin

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The Rams currently have a front office and HC who work incredibly well together.

I see that as being the single biggest reason to think we won't see that kind of repeat... and, instead, a team that is a legitimate contender for the Super Bowl again.
Agreed. 2000 Rams had a dysfunctional front office, which contributed to Lyght and Carter sulking about their contracts. Can't imagine the current 2022 front office would let morale become a problem like that.
 

Kupped

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Can't quite understand why this thread isn't overwhelmed with posts that state the glaring big point-- 2000 Rams were all O and no D.

2000 Rams weren't about Warner's broken finger. Or Hakim's muffed punt.

It was all about the crazy record setting offense, and the disaster on D, making for an exciting--yet mediocre-- 10-6 team.

From wiki on the Rams 2000 season:

The Rams became the first team in NFL history to score more than 500 points on offense, while allowing more than 450 points on defense.... The Rams' offense offset the team's defensive struggles: St. Louis' 471 points allowed in 2000 is the most ever surrendered by an NFL team with a winning record.[4] The Rams had the best offense in the league, but had the worst defense in the league.
I think most of us get that's what played out..

My post was about why it ended up that way, imo.
Martz + Front Office wasn't a good mix.
 

Ballhawk

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What happened after the 99 season was that the front office decided to pay their stars more money and let the backbones of the defense and o line leave.
Recipe for disaster!
 

Allen2McVay

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What happened after the 99 season was that the front office decided to pay their stars more money and let the backbones of the defense and o line leave.
Recipe for disaster!
I don't know. I believe Billy Jenkins was the only starter from the '99 Defense who did not return for 2000.

Still. the Defense fell from 4th in the NFL in 1999, to dead last in scoring-defense in 2000.

They did lose Gruttadauria and Miller off the O-Line but he Rams continued to be #1 in scoring.
 

Ballhawk

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Pretty sure that is when they let London Fletcher walk.
 

Merlin

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The key is you gotta project where you're gonna have dropoff. And be honest about it. It's not easy to look at a roster and talk about trading fan favorites but that's probably gotta happen if they want to do this again.

If the Rams are lazy this offseason I'm not gonna care too much because I'm still on a championship high. But if they end up being the overpaid team that doesn't have enough lunchpail types to get the job done it's gonna suck.
 

RamsOfCastamere

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The key is you gotta project where you're gonna have dropoff. And be honest about it. It's not easy to look at a roster and talk about trading fan favorites but that's probably gotta happen if they want to do this again.

If the Rams are lazy this offseason I'm not gonna care too much because I'm still on a championship high. But if they end up being the overpaid team that doesn't have enough lunchpail types to get the job done it's gonna suck.
The thing about next year is that our core skills guys are under contract. No issues with Stafford Kupp Woods Akers Higbee Donald Ramsey Floyd under contract. Aside of Miller and OBJ that are luxuries, and Whitworth that’s retiring (potentially), the guys we have to replace are roll players. Stafford and Morris should be in stride going into their second year.
 

lordbannon

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We were a dropped punt away from potentially repeating despite the rough regular season.

That was just such a gut punch. Down by 18, we waste Hakim's huge punt return with an INT halfway through the 4th. Then two quick touchdowns and and a stop. Everyone in that stadium knows its over, the Rams are going to march down the field and win.

And then Hakim muffs the fair catch.

Losing the Super Bowls in 2001 and 2018 hurt worse. But that was the whiplash loss. I was at work that day, first play I saw was the Saints walk in TD to go up 24-7. Went from dread to euphoria and back in mere minutes.
 

den-the-coach

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In hindsight Saunders learned enough of Martz offense to run it. They should have kept Vermiel and let Martz move on.

But who knew?
I don't think that was a choice, Vermeil felt the time was right and then realized later, he made a mistake.