What we can learn from Case Keenum's star turn and what's next

[UKram]

I don't think he's better than Goff, I never said that.
Just right off the rip, Goff physically has a stronger arm which does not limit the game plan or alter the type of plays you have to run.

Do I enjoy watching posters change the goalposts and nitpick for small minor flaws because he actually can play when they blamed him for being the majority of the problem last year?

No not really, I'm just happy for Case and I knew he could play and win in the right situation.

Playing for Fisher was NOT the right situation.

Which goalpost did I change ? Where did I say Goff outplayed Case last year ? I think youll find I said ..Case was awful and if not for a few game saving plays by the D we would have struggled to get 4 wins

 

[Kevin]

You missed Jacksonville and Baltimore.

Another big difference between Goff last year and this year are his receivers. Just like the Vikings O-Line is better this year compared to last, the Rams receivers are light years better this year than last. And largely healthy.

 

[Raptorman]

I actually can’t believe there’s a Vikings fan here trying to make the argument that Keenum is a better QB than Goff. Goff has superior stats in every single category in just his 2nd year after being coached by Jeff Fisher. Keenum is an average QB with Alex Smith level talent at best, and he’s not even to that point yet.

Sorry. Never said Keenum is better than Goff. What I am saying is that Goff isn't as good as you think he is. Brady isn't as good as you think he is. Keenum isn't as good as people thinks he is. All to often the QB gets the credit for the win. But seldom for the losses. Superior stats doesn't mean that he's a better QB.

Since 2010, do you know how many top 5 QB's in passing according to NFL.com have been in the Super Bowl. That's 35 possibles positions. Exactly 5. Know how many actually won? 1. Eli Manning Drew Brees is consistently in the top 5, usually 1 or 2. Yet he has been back to the Super Bowl? Eli and Brees Super Bowl are the anomalies in the equation. See they didn't have top 5 or even top 10 defenses. But what did happen is that the defense's stepped up during the playoffs. Not something that usually happens.

How well your QB plays doesn't mean a damn thing unless he has a defense to help him out. Period. When talking about QB's ask yourself this question. How many teams has he beat when his defense gives up more 30 points or more? FWIW, Brady has 33 of those games in his career. He has won 12 of them. 36%.

Goff can have superior stats every year and it won't mean a damn thing if he doesn't have a defense to back him up. Just like Keenum in MN this year. If Keenum goes someplace with a crappy defense expect the 2015 Rams. If the Rams defense sinks, so will Goff's win/loss record.

 

[dieterbrock]

Since 2010, do you know how many top 5 QB's in passing according to NFL.com have been in the Super Bowl.

Top QB's how? By yardage? Passer rating? TD passes?

 

[Raptorman]

Top QB's how? By yardage? Passer rating? TD passes?

Well, since NFL.com normally rates then by passing yards..............that would be how I used this. But if you want, go ahead and rate the top 5 anyway you want, except games won, and tell us how many have won a Super Bowl the last 7 years.

 

[Kevin]

So football is a team sport and QB statistics alone do not dictate a SB win? Thanks Raptorman.

 

[dieterbrock]

Well, since NFL.com normally rates then by passing yards..............that would be how I used this. But if you want, go ahead and rate the top 5 anyway you want, except games won, and tell us how many have won a Super Bowl the last 7 years.

By passing yards? That's a silly one.
So in the 8 Superbowls played in that time frame, there were 8 QB's in the top 5 of passing yards per game (Last year both Brady and Ryan)
I'd say that's pretty solid.

 

[Snaz]

Since 2010, do you know how many top 5 QB's in passing according to NFL.com have been in the Super Bowl.
Exactly 5.

5 of 7 is 71.4% is statistically significant to state that have a top 5 QB give you a chance of making it to a Super Bowl.

Please now state how many Top 5 Defenses were in the Playoffs?

I'll tell you the best indicator of a Team Winning. It has always been point differential. The more points you beat your opponent by the greater chance you are a winning team. Points are usually put on the scoreboard by the offense. So having an offense that can score is important. You need a defense to stop the opposing offense from scoring. So having a good defense is important. Great defense keep the opponent scores really low. Great offenses put up a lot of points. Depending on the match up, one may be more important than the other in any given game.

Sometimes that great offense needs to overcome a great defense, or vice versa. But if you have both you are golden.

Great Defenses Win Championships. But occasionally a Great Offense does too. Your point is moot.

 

[jrry32]

Okay. Let me make it clear as mud for you. A good QB can and will win games for his team. He can and will do it year in and year out. See, Rodgers and Manning. But, if you want to win the Super Bowl then you have to have a top defense. And a top Defense does not need a top QB to win it. Only a QB that doesn't make stupid mistakes. If Manning was so great why only 2 Super Bowls? Did you know that if the Pats defense holds the other team to 17 points or less Brady wins 96% of those games. But they only make up 122 of his 245 starts. But it's all Brady.......

One of these teams below will win the Super Bowl this year. While none of them currently are number 1 in Points per game they all have two things going for them. A good defense and a QB that doesn't make a lot of mistakes. Listed are the teams with defensive points per game. Don't let New England fool you. Their first 4 games they gave up 32 points per game. Since then, they are down to 12.5 points per game. Funny thing, if you listen to the talking heads about the Pats, all you hear is how Brady is back to his old self.

Philadelphia Eagles     17.4
Pittsburgh Steelers     17.5
Minnesota Vikings       17.7
Los Angeles Chargers    18.4
Los Angeles Rams        18.7
Carolina Panthers       18.8
New England Patriots    20.0

I don't know anyone who is disputing the value of a good defense. I don't know how this pertains to my point about Keenum not being a "winner."

 

[So Ram]

There are people who question if the Earth is round, so I guess things could be worse.

All I really have to do is quote Tony Romo, "I don't remember a second-year QB doing as much at the line of scrimmage as Goff since maybe Peyton Manning." That should speak volumes.

As for extending plays, I disagree. People mistakenly believe that the only way to extend plays is to scramble. For a QB like Goff, he's ideally extending plays in the pocket. It's what Brady and Manning were magnificent at doing. Romo today highlighted Goff's feet, ability to move within the pocket, and ability to move without sacrificing his ability to get the ball out.

Goff is a pocket passer with a limitless ceiling. I threw out Peyton Manning as a guy he reminded me of before we drafted him. I said it would be unfair to expect any QB to be Peyton Manning, but seeing him in the NFL, that's still the QB whom I think is most comparable to Goff. Goff's mental acuity and instincts at 23 years old are amazing. The kid is still three to five years away from his prime.

Well - I agree with most of what your saying. Looking at Wentz, they are totally different.

Will see how Case grows. He might be lucky to hold the starting spot.I think he could of worked well in McVays system.

Goff is really solid with his reads. He is a head of Manning at this point of his career. Goff only went 0-7.
Aikman & Manning we’re both like 1- 15.

 

[Rmfnlt]

Case Keenum is not on the Rams
Case Keenum helped MINN beat the Rams a few weeks ago.

Case Keenum is dead to me.

 

[So Ram]

Tom Brady and Peyton Manning were winners (among many other things). Case Keenum is only a winner on a winning team. That doesn't make him a winner.

What was his record with The Rams for his career ?

Fisher freaking cost me $30,000 because he went 7-9. That last game against the 9ers & Greg the leg missing his FG. Same Baltimore game.
Look back at Giants in Europe & Miami game. There were so many games The Rams should have won.Game management was on the coaching staff.

As McVay said said yesterday. Kept peddle to medal . Believed in our QB.

 

[Rmfnlt]

How well your QB plays doesn't mean a damn thing unless he has a defense to help him out. Period.

I absolutely agree with this!

I'm am grateful McVay understands it and got Phillips.

That way, the Rams have a very good shot at being a top tier team in the NFL... Goff + Defense = Championships.

(you already know my thoughts on Keennum)

 

[Raptorman]

There are people who question if the Earth is round, so I guess things could be worse.

All I really have to do is quote Tony Romo, "I don't remember a second-year QB doing as much at the line of scrimmage as Goff since maybe Peyton Manning." That should speak volumes.

I wonder, did Tony say this before or after it came out that McVay is calling the defense and then changing plays at the LOS for Goff before they turn off the radio?

 

[So Ram]

How many times did Peyton Manning's team miss the playoffs? How many times has Tom Brady's team missed the playoffs? Those guys are/were winners. They won no matter what they around them. Don't try and dispute that. You're not going to win that argument.



You're conflating winning with winning Super Bowls. Only one team can win a Super Bowl each year. You're not disputing my point. You're not even addressing it.

If the Rams defense had this Rams offense last year, they wouldn't have given up points like they did.

If you're trying to argue that Case Keenum is a better QB than Goff (or as good), please return to whatever Minnesota-based rock you've been living under. You're not going to get much support here.

Of course - Case never got much support as The Rams QB. He sure beat Goff on his first opportunity, & there is no disputing that either.

Drew Brees lost out to Phillip Rivers who was a great draft pick & has had a better career than M. Vick( aka the dog killer).

Eli has more wins than Rivers , but Big Ben has more wins than those guys.

I will admit Goff has the most potential, but who will win the Super Bowl ? Case Keenum is not a franchise QB , but maybe in the right situation.what about Bradford ? Wentz took his spot.

 

[dieterbrock]

what about Bradford ? Wentz took his spot.

Which wouldnt have happened had Bridgewater's knee not spontaneously erupted

 

[Boston Ram]

I wonder, did Tony say this before or after it came out that McVay is calling the defense and then changing plays at the LOS for Goff before they turn off the radio?

Dont know but who is to say Goff is still not changing McVays plays at the LOS if he sees something the coaches didnt. The communication is turned off at the 15 second mark and Goff took a lot of calls to the 2 second mark. My guess is coaches are telling him what they see, but Goff is making the final call at the line. Regardless it is pretty impressive that a 23 year old QB is making any calls at the line in his first full year as a starter. He has showed poise at making sure everyone knows there assignment.

 

[So Ram]

Which goalpost did I change ? Where did I say Goff outplayed Case last year ? I think youll find I said ..Case was awful and if not for a few game saving plays by the D we would have struggled to get 4 wins

Well- if that is what you said, I personally don’t believe that . I think Wade Phillips has a lot of respect for Case Keenum.
The defense didn’t quit all season & might have even stepped up more if Case continued as the starter.

Once Goff replaced him the season was over. Hindsight is 50/50.

I’ll post back right or wrong on how Case finishes the season & career.

In no way am I saying putting Goff in was the wrong move either. The Rams made that decision before the season. I lost a lot of money last season as well.
This year I was in Vegas , but under a difficult situation. The Rams actually were a good Super Bowl prop bet as well. I do believe they can win it all.
Case & Vikings have a chance as well. Philly is the big test. Seahags are hanging in there. The NFC South is tough again.

 

[So Ram]

Which wouldnt have happened had Bridgewater's knee not spontaneously erupted

So how would that have looked ? Does Wentz start at any point last season over Bradford ?

 

[Raptorman]

So how would that have looked ? Does Wentz start at any point last season over Bradford ?

That's a good question. I think that we will never know the answer.