Was the LA Rams owner murdered for fixing NFL games? | Carroll Rosenbloom’s mystery death (1979)

[Selassie I]

80 degree weather is okay for me and I am from California but I wouldn't be out there long.

Depends on the water temperature really.

And April water temperature is not for me. It usually averages around 75 degrees in April. I like the water temperature around 80 plus.

However, Carroll Rosenbloom grew up in Baltimore Maryland so he could be okay with that temperature. I know lots of people in Virginia where I work like the weather to be in the 60s at the highest, especially if they are heavy drinkers. So he could theoretically be okay with that water temperature.

I'm half lizard... so I don't understand cold or people who claim to enjoy it.

I won't take my boat out if it's under 75°. Seriously.

I love surfing and diving... but not if a wet suit is needed.

 

[Tano]

I'm half lizard... so I don't understand cold or people who claim to enjoy it.

I won't take my boat out if it's under 75°. Seriously.

I love surfing and diving... but not if a wet suit is needed.

I hate the cold too. And under 75 degrees is too cold for me to be out on a boat too.

 

[Ramhusker]

When's the movie?????????????

 

[So Ram]

I hate the cold too. And under 75 degrees is too cold for me to be out on a boat too.

Went to watch the summer solstice in Newport.Can’t believe people getting in the water where I have to have a hoodie.Have a lot of surfer from from Northern Cal who get out in the morning in 60* water.

 

[RamFan503]

80° ain't swimming weather for me.

I used to body surf at Zuma beach when it was much cooler than that. Now? Fuck that! And I'm not Rosenbloom age. Not quite anyways. @VegasRam knows what it'd be like being ancient in those waters.

 

[VegasRam]

I do.
Thank god the 2 klics I swim every other day are in a pool.

 

[VegasRam]

Love cold water.
Rafting below the dam in August, water’s 55-60 degrees.
Absolutely perfect.
My pool gets over 74 degrees, I don’t go in.

 

[XXXIVwin]

Somebody forced him out in that water and made sure it was the last time he'd ever go swimming. Common sense should tell us all that.

Alright, @Selassie I, I don't necessarily want to do a "deep dive" (pardon the pun) into Rosenbloom's death, but I gotta admit it's an interesting subject...

For me, "common sense" leans to the likelihood of drowning, mainly because (a) it's so damn common and (b) even though I'm getting older and supposedly wiser, I think humans in general do dumb shit all the time-- even the "wiser" ones over 70...

But I guess one thing that sticks out to me is the idea that someone both "forced him out in the water" AND "made sure he drowned."

Now I ain't no expert on murder... but I have slept in a Holiday Inn and I've watched my share of gangster movies... and it just seems like a really weird and unreliable way to kill somebody.

Regarding "forcing him in the water"... it sounds like the cops interviewed a witness who tried to convince Carroll not to swim. From the SI article that @Classic Rams posted, bold added:

"Astonishingly, Frontline investigator Scott Malone talked to no one mentioned in the police report of Rosenbloom's drowning except Tanguay. Not to Alexander Papp of the Bronx, the last person to speak with Rosenbloom. Papp warned Rosenbloom before he entered the water that the undercurrent was especially strong that day. Not to retired Golden Beach Police Chief William Henrikson, who pulled Rosenbloom's body out of the surf and said at the time that the ocean conditions were the worst he'd ever seen. Not to two women who witnessed the drowning from a second-story window, one of whom last week described the "dark object" as possible debris or sea moss. Not to Officer Ron Nasca, who helped Henrikson retrieve the body. Not to Charles Major, the chief investigating officer, who last week said that Rosenbloom's body bore none of the signs one would expect from a struggle, such as bruises or broken fingernails."

It sounds like there were several eye-witnesses. Why would killers risk "forcing" someone in the water in broad daylight? And what about this guy Alexander Papp, who supposedly warned Rosenbloom about not swimming that day?

And as far as some scuba dude holding Rosenbloom underwater until he drowns-- that sounds pretty implausible to me. I've spent my share of time in the ocean, and there's nearly always a "dark patch" of something swirling around, so that sounds like extremely flimsy "evidence" to me. But mainly-- if somebody wanted to murder a dude, would they really go through the crazy risk of hiring a scuba diver to hold them underwater? And somehow have the diver be in just the right spot at just the right time and then swim hundreds of yards away without being detected? Just sounds like a super-weird and risky murder plan to me.

Lastly-- I'm just kinda annoyed at the "Ctrl-Alt-History" video clip because it makes the murder insinuations while completely ignoring all the evidence that points to drowning by accident. Why not present both sides?

Bottom line-- I do think it's possible that Rosenbloom was murdered. It does sound like he had a major gambling problem and had some shady connections. And yeah Georgia was a witch and it's plausible that she'd do anything for money. And Steve's suspicions (Carrol's son) carries some weight with me. And yeah, sounds like several other family members have suspicions too.

I still lean in the "accident" direction for 2 main reasons: (1) sounds like the cops put a lot of work into this and found a lot of evidence to indicate a drowning with zero evidence of foul play and (2) "forcing a guy into the ocean and having a scuba dude hold him underwater" just sounds like a really weird and risky and implausible murder plan to pull off in broad daylight. Wouldn't there be much simpler ways to do it?

Just my 2 cents, and we'll never know for sure...

 

[Selassie I]

Deep Dive !

NICE

That's what makes this so intriguing to me. No matter which way one might lean on what really happened... you simply cannot deny that you could easily be wrong. Well, at least if you're being honest with yourself.

@XXXIVwin I'm usually the guy who leans in the direction you're leaning on this kinda thing man. Go look in the UFO thread for a great example of that. It's just that I sometimes get a strange feeling about something... like I have a real Spidy Sense. It's not a common thing for me to feel it, but when I do it has usually been correct even when everything else was telling me otherwise. I've always had that weird feeling come up with this subject. It makes me believe that none of us have all of the information.

Now... I realize that occam's razor is normally the best bet and that I could be jaded to the point that I will never be able to see clearly on this. But I'm being honest when I say that when I get this strange feeling about things... it's really never lead me down the wrong rabbit hole. If it wasn't for that feeling I have... I'd be the voice of reason on this too.

 

[Tano]

Alright, @Selassie I, I don't necessarily want to do a "deep dive" (pardon the pun) into Rosenbloom's death, but I gotta admit it's an interesting subject...

For me, "common sense" leans to the likelihood of drowning, mainly because (a) it's so damn common and (b) even though I'm getting older and supposedly wiser, I think humans in general do dumb shit all the time-- even the "wiser" ones over 70...

But I guess one thing that sticks out to me is the idea that someone both "forced him out in the water" AND "made sure he drowned."

Now I ain't no expert on murder... but I have slept in a Holiday Inn and I've watched my share of gangster movies... and it just seems like a really weird and unreliable way to kill somebody.

Regarding "forcing him in the water"... it sounds like the cops interviewed a witness who tried to convince Carroll not to swim. From the SI article that @Classic Rams posted, bold added:

"Astonishingly, Frontline investigator Scott Malone talked to no one mentioned in the police report of Rosenbloom's drowning except Tanguay. Not to Alexander Papp of the Bronx, the last person to speak with Rosenbloom. Papp warned Rosenbloom before he entered the water that the undercurrent was especially strong that day. Not to retired Golden Beach Police Chief William Henrikson, who pulled Rosenbloom's body out of the surf and said at the time that the ocean conditions were the worst he'd ever seen. Not to two women who witnessed the drowning from a second-story window, one of whom last week described the "dark object" as possible debris or sea moss. Not to Officer Ron Nasca, who helped Henrikson retrieve the body. Not to Charles Major, the chief investigating officer, who last week said that Rosenbloom's body bore none of the signs one would expect from a struggle, such as bruises or broken fingernails."

It sounds like there were several eye-witnesses. Why would killers risk "forcing" someone in the water in broad daylight? And what about this guy Alexander Papp, who supposedly warned Rosenbloom about not swimming that day?

And as far as some scuba dude holding Rosenbloom underwater until he drowns-- that sounds pretty implausible to me. I've spent my share of time in the ocean, and there's nearly always a "dark patch" of something swirling around, so that sounds like extremely flimsy "evidence" to me. But mainly-- if somebody wanted to murder a dude, would they really go through the crazy risk of hiring a scuba diver to hold them underwater? And somehow have the diver be in just the right spot at just the right time and then swim hundreds of yards away without being detected? Just sounds like a super-weird and risky murder plan to me.

Lastly-- I'm just kinda annoyed at the "Ctrl-Alt-History" video clip because it makes the murder insinuations while completely ignoring all the evidence that points to drowning by accident. Why not present both sides?

Bottom line-- I do think it's possible that Rosenbloom was murdered. It does sound like he had a major gambling problem and had some shady connections. And yeah Georgia was a witch and it's plausible that she'd do anything for money. And Steve's suspicions (Carrol's son) carries some weight with me. And yeah, sounds like several other family members have suspicions too.

I still lean in the "accident" direction for 2 main reasons: (1) sounds like the cops put a lot of work into this and found a lot of evidence to indicate a drowning with zero evidence of foul play and (2) "forcing a guy into the ocean and having a scuba dude hold him underwater" just sounds like a really weird and risky and implausible murder plan to pull off in broad daylight. Wouldn't there be much simpler ways to do it?

Just my 2 cents, and we'll never know for sure...

What I want to know is did anyone look into the background of the witness.

If I was the mafia and I wanted to make it look like an accident, I would make sure I had a witness who would say all those things.

About dragging Rosenbloom into the water, I would first have my witness divert Rosenbloom's attention away from the divers coming behind Rosenbloom and then they hit him over the head and knock him out. Any autopsy would conclude he hit his head while going under in the waters.

As to why the Mafia would want to make it look like an accident is due to Georgia's involvement. If it was an out an out murder, suspicion would definitely have looked at Georgia and then her owning the team would get tied up during the investigation and Steve would have done something thru the court to delay her from taking over the team. Better to make it look like an accident.

I have watched way too many datelines.

 

[kurtfaulk]

.

Have a look at this photo. It's from the ghost train fire at Luna Park in Sydney in the late 70s. The police determined the morning after the fire that an electrical fault was the cause of the fire, in which 7 people died including 6 kids, and then proceeded to gut the site that morning. Everything was taken away before the afternoon.

Now see that box in the left corner. That's the electical circuit box. It's the only thing that didn't burn.

Eventually it was determined in an enquiry that a cigarette butt was the cause, even though many witnesses said they smelt kerosene inside the ride. Why did they come to that conclusion? Because none of those testimonies were submitted and none of those witnesses were interviewed.

Why was that? Because the police at that time were more crooked than the crooks. Lawyers and judges weren't angels either.

Why am I telling you this story? Because don't believe everything you hear from authorities.

Those poor people and their families will never see justice.

.

 

[PARAM]

Everybody loves a good conspiracy!! But sometimes, it's Occam's Razor. He was 72. He had bypass surgery. I don't know that he drank or smoked but many "gentlemen" of that era did both. The only thing that raises a question in my mind is his son saying he was a poor swimmer who never went into the water alone. But there are people who die in severe undertow often.

On one hand, the coroner said it was an accident.
On another, the authorities claimed they were dragged 150 yards down the beach by the undertow while retrieving the body.
On a third, the documentary suggesting a "hit" said the Candian tourist who tried to rescue him saw a "dark object" going in the opposite direction as he approached Rosenbloom. Yet another account says nobody saw anything unusual in the water.
Is it a stretch to think a Vegas showgirl might have some connections to the mob?
Finally, we'll never know.

 

[Tano]

Everybody loves a good conspiracy!! But sometimes, it's Occam's Razor. He was 72. He had bypass surgery. I don't know that he drank or smoked but many "gentlemen" of that era did both. The only thing that raises a question in my mind is his son saying he was a poor swimmer who never went into the water alone. But there are people who die in severe undertow often.

On one hand, the coroner said it was an accident.
On another, the authorities claimed they were dragged 150 yards down the beach by the undertow while retrieving the body.
On a third, the documentary suggesting a "hit" said the Candian tourist who tried to rescue him saw a "dark object" going in the opposite direction as he approached Rosenbloom. Yet another account says nobody saw anything unusual in the water.
Is it a stretch to think a Vegas showgirl might have some connections to the mob?
Finally, we'll never know.

I agree with you that we will never know.

But Georgia marrying Frontiere who had strong links to the Mafia just 9 months after Carroll's death makes it awfully suspicious.

 

[PARAM]

I agree with you that we will never know.

But Georgia marrying Frontiere who had strong links to the Mafia just 9 months after Carroll's death makes it awfully suspicious.

Add CR's death to list of things we'll never know joining Hoffa, Erhardt, Epstein, etc.

 

[Tano]

Add CR's death to list of things we'll never know joining Hoffa, Erhardt, Epstein, etc.

At the firm that I worked at, a running joke was that if you make any of us mad, we could make you disappear at a rendering company. That joke always made me wonder if the mafia owned a rendering company.

 

[Selassie I]

.

View attachment 65909


Have a look at this photo. It's from the ghost train fire at Luna Park in Sydney in the late 70s. The police determined the morning after the fire that an electrical fault was the cause of the fire, in which 7 people died including 6 kids, and then proceeded to gut the site that morning. Everything was taken away before the afternoon.

Now see that box in the left corner. That's the electical circuit box. It's the only thing that didn't burn.

Eventually it was determined in an enquiry that a cigarette butt was the cause, even though many witnesses said they smelt kerosene inside the ride. Why did they come to that conclusion? Because none of those testimonies were submitted and none of those witnesses were interviewed.

Why was that? Because the police at that time were more crooked than the crooks. Lawyers and judges weren't angels either.

Why am I telling you this story? Because don't believe everything you hear from authorities.

Those poor people and their families will never see justice.

.

This is an excellent point Brudda!

The 2 main media sources back in 79 that reported on the drowning were The New York Times and Sports Illustrated. Back in those days, basically no person even thought to question a media source about anything... especially well known ones like these two. If it was printed... it was TRUE. We were all like sheep back in those days. It's crazy when you look back now.

Today... most people have become aware that media sources are mostly controlled by the elite so that they can create the news and control almost everything that is printed or reported. It's absolutely nutz today seeing media sources who no longer follow the rules of journalism and have full on become propaganda machines instead of trusted news sources. Today, even though the media sources blatantly serve an agenda... and do it completely out in the open... many people still believe almost everything they see in print or on TV. Think about the common warning that came out just a few years ago - "Don't believe everything you see on the internet"... it was sadly a much needed warning label that most human beings have heard many times. But guess what, there are still people all around us who absolutely do not heed that warning. How crazy right. It's really extremely sad.

But back then nobody would question The New York Times or Sports Illustrated. Their word was like gold you could take directly to the bank. These same two media sources today are known to be a few of the most agenda driven propagandists in existence. They have absolutely no shame about it either because they know there there will always be a percentage of the population who will never think to, or maybe want to, question their integrity.

Well... I have to believe that creating the news was like taking candy from a baby back in the 70's. The mob controlled and did things back then that people know is true, but those things were just so terrible it is much easier for many people to say that those truths were just rumors or made up scary stories. Human nature can be dumb. The 2 main media sources reporting on the drowning back then were just as crooked then as they are today. That's what I believe. They controlled the story/truth. It's much easier and less threatening to believe the opposite though.

 

[Merlin]

Mob connections. Shady dealings and bets on NFL games with his team. Wife with six previous marriages and a boyfriend she later married who was connected with the mob. Death with highly questionable circumstances. Death of primary business/betting associate shortly thereafter by mob hit. Movie in Hollywood that forecasted the situation to some extent, which probably was at least partly fed by inside rumors of Georgia's behaviors and standing among the Hollywood business elite. Clown show celebrations when his fortune passed to her. Criminal treatment of his son shortly after his passing by firing him from all team responsibilities. She then ends up fleeing LA with her broke ass team and front office when the STL offer threw her a lifeline.

None of us really know what happened. But there's enough smoke to where I have always believed Georgia is a filthy <c-word> who killed her husband and short changed Rams fans of an iconic owner. Stan has done a great job btw of course, and his performance so far serves to lessen the anger I have around Georgia and her era, but I will go to my grave hating the memory of that bitch.

 

[Selassie I]

View: https://www.instagram.com/reel/C8pjptWPEQz/?igsh=MXB0ZGFlZXJ3MWdodA==




Not off topic... lol

This is how the beaches pretty much look in South Florida wave/surf wise. Basically nonexistent. Just saw this and wanted to share for those who have never been down to the beaches there.

 

[RhodyRams]

reading about all you pussies who don't go on the water if it's too cold makes me laugh

the ocean here hits a max of 74°, and I go for a swim once a month year round

did a polar plunge Jan1 this year the water temp was about 37

Feb was about the same..

May it was 60 and right now its around 70

 

[Selassie I]

reading about all you pussies who don't go on the water if it's too cold makes me laugh

the ocean here hits a max of 74°, and I go for a swim once a month year round

did a polar plunge Jan1 this year the water temp was about 37

Feb was about the same..

May it was 60 and right now its around 70

Hahahahahahaaaaa

You mean ME.

It goes both ways... usually. I'll be down in the Keys in August soaking up the heat and humidity while out on the water. My fam thinks the world of you and Mrs Mikey. Come on down and swim with da lizards. @Ramrasta will be your free diving buddy and show you how to get you some warm water bugs with no claws. If you can hang with him... my old pussy ass will take a Midol and maybe change your mind. Ya fucking polar bear.