Vermeil on Goff, Bradford, Wentz, and qb development.

[Roman Snow]

"No question," he said. "First off, unfortunately for the Rams, how many offensive coordinators have they fired and quarterbacks have they gone through? Sam Bradford is going to prove he can really play. He can take a team to the Super Bowl. But within that environment, the supporting cast was never good enough to show that he was worthy of that first pick. . . . There are organizations where a quarterback would have to run over them with a bus for them to recognize he can play."

Dick Vermeil's voice was rising over the phone now as he made that assertion. In fact, we had already said goodbye, but he had called back because he was so set on making that point: that circumstances and coaching matter, that a promising young quarterback in a bad situation has little or no shot to succeed. But by the time we hung up a second time, the old coach was at least confident in this thought: The first NFL team he was in charge of doesn't have that problem now.

DV is always going to have a soft place in the heart of Ram fans, and he is a Northern Ca. guy. I have spoken to a number of people in the Napa Valley over the years that know him, and they all seem to genuinely like him.......buuuut he really seems to have some ax to grind against this organization. (Maybe Stan?)

Witness the way he abruptly retired after our Super Bowl win. Sometimes I wonder if there was more to the story.

I take his Goff comments as foolish ramblings, actually. It makes me respect him a bit less. It is kind of the same tone I hear from Kurt sometimes. I wish they were loyal like Marshall...

"Why aren't you loyal, like Marshall?!"

I think it's fair to say that Martz had way more to do with Warner's development than DV. In fact... without Martz, I don't believe DV would have lasted another year with the Rams.

A QB whisperer he is not.

Bingo. I think he was a good coach, but mostly along for the ride with the GSOT.

 

[Loyal]

Interesting take from Dicky V. Can't say that he's speaking from experience, because he didn't develop anyone in Philly. In fact, Jaworski had only one good season (multiple bad ones before it, and multiple bad ones after). Then he drafted Tony Banks and would have rode him until he was fired, because he liked the guy so much. He was full-on Brokeback with Banks and for whatever reason, he couldn't quit him. Warner? ALL of the credit for that offensive turnaround goes to Martz. But hey, he's entitled to his opinion. Fisher did okay by selecting McNair, who eventually became the 2003 NFL Co-MVP and a guy who helped them get to a Super Bowl a few years earlier. Of course I've already heard that this is an anomaly, and McNair was simply that good & didn't need any developing. But then again I also heard that McNair wasn't anything special, so who the hell knows what to believe anymore.

I think I'll just let this unfold and watch history write itself.

Actually, not completely true, X.

Ron Jaworski had a chance to drive the Rams to a Super Bowl in 1975. He took over for an injured James Harris in Week 13 of that season (14 game regular season back then), winning that game vs Green Bay. He then scored the winning TD in a significant game vs the eventual Super Bowl Champion Pittsburgh Steelers in the last game of the regular season.
He led the Rams to beat the St Louis Cardinals in the divisional round, and then was replaced by James Harris in the NFC Championship game, where Harris was picked off on his first pass attempt and Staubach converted for a TD. The Rams were down 21-0 by halftime, and then Jaworski was put back in for the 2nd half, but by then it was too late.
THIS was something Jaws never forgot, according to people that know him. The next year he started the first game, again for an injured James Harris, and he won the game in Atlanta...unfortunately, he was injured himself, and Pat Haden emerged by season's end as the starter (groan) in the playoffs. Jaws was traded to the Eagles the next year.

Vermeil got someone that had already won at the highest level...So sorry, Jaws isn't his success story.

 

[Roman Snow]

He was full-on Brokeback with Banks

:rolllaugh::shocking:uke:

Fisher did okay by selecting McNair, who eventually became the 2003 NFL Co-MVP and a guy who helped them get to a Super Bowl

I call BS on this. I went back and checked on his stats. McNair didn't even start his rookie season. TOTAL BUST!!

 

[-X-]

Actually, not completely true, X.

Ron Jaworski had a chance to drive the Rams to a Super Bowl in 1975. He took over for an injured James Harris in Week 13 of that season (14 game regular season back then), winning that game vs Green Bay. He then scored the winning TD in a significant game vs the eventual Super Bowl Champion Pittsburgh Steelers in the last game of the regular season.
He led the Rams to beat the St Louis Cardinals in the divisional round, and then was replaced by James Harris in the NFC Championship game, where Harris was picked off on his first pass attempt and Staubach converted for a TD. The Rams were down 21-0 by halftime, and then Jaworski was put back in for the 2nd half, but by then it was too late.
THIS was something Jaws never forgot, according to people that know him. The next year he started the first game, again for an injured James Harris, and he won the game in Atlanta...unfortunately, he was injured himself, and Pat Haden emerged by season's end as the starter (groan) in the playoffs. Jaws was traded to the Eagles the next year.

Vermeil got someone that had already won at the highest level...So sorry, Jaws isn't his success story.

Good stuff. I was talking about their time together with the Eagles though. While I don't have clear first-hand recollection of those teams (I was 9), a cursory glance of his stats with Vermeil leads me to believe that there wasn't a whole helluva lot of "developing" going on. In fact, one could argue Vermeil was holding Jaworski back. I do like Jaws, by the way. So, nothing I say is driven by a need to discredit anyone. Just a few thoughts is all.

 

[leoram]

Vermeil's eyes see what I do. I wanted Wentz simply by watching tape on him. I saw the same thing I saw w Allen Iverson in Georgetown, Tomlinson in the Senior Bowl, and Dickerson at SMU. When I saw him break down tape w Gruden, I was totally convinced he was THE MAN.

In comparison, Goff was a boy who needed time to develop. The Rams are correct in developing him slowly. He may turn out to be a fine system QB but his ceiling is Flacco, Ryan, Smith. Wentz is Rothlisburger, Bartkowski, Favre. Goff is a Ram QB now so he has my full devotion. But I won't lie about what I've seen. For Vermeil to compare Wentz to Warner is the HIGHEST compliment and DV KNOWS FOOTBALL so much better than any of us here.

 

[8to12]

I think it's fair to say that Martz had way more to do with Warner's development than DV. In fact... without Martz, I don't believe DV would have lasted another year with the Rams.

A QB whisperer he is not.

Maybe he is not, but he did get the Eagles to the Superbowl with Jaworski, and after the '99 Rams, he went on to break scoring records with Chiefs. I don't recall Martz having that type of success.

 

[dieterbrock]

Maybe he is not, but he did get the Eagles to the Superbowl with Jaworski, and after the '99 Rams, he went on to break scoring records with Chiefs. I don't recall Martz having that type of success.

You don't recall Martz as the HC of the Rams in SB 36? I don't recall Vermeil getting to the SB with the Chiefs...

 

[8to12]

You don't recall Martz as the HC of the Rams in SB 36? I don't recall Vermeil getting to the SB with the Chiefs...

What you say is true... however, the original poster wrote that Vermeil was not good with QB's.

You help prove my point that Vermeil achieved success with his offenses with 3 different teams ; Martz only achieved success with the Rams for a few seasons and none after that.

 

[dieterbrock]

What you say is true... however, the original poster wrote that Vermeil was not good with QB's.

You help prove my point that Vermeil achieved success with his offenses with 3 different teams ; Martz only achieved success with the Rams for a few seasons and none after that.

But those QB's... Vermeil isn't responsible for them. Green was groomed by Martz in Washington, and then in St Louis. Obviously Warner was also a Martz success story. Then there's Bulger too. So yeah, Vermeil owes Martz a big thank you for 2 of his 3 successful teams were QB'd by a Martz protégé

 

[~lyser]

He also drafted Tony Banks. Not #1 overall, but still...



Kinda' like you knew what you had with Warner, eh Dicky?
Lay off your product.

No, he inherited Banks - that was a Rich Brooks/Ortmayer pick. Same year that regime drafted Eddie "stone hands" Kennison over Marvin "hands like a ninja" Harrison and Lawrence "I'm drunk bitches" Phillips over Eddie "Heisman" George.

Banks was the first QB taken, but in the second round.

Rich Brooks commented at the time that that draft made the Rams "more explosive". Shit blew up alright, but it was not Dicky V's doing.

After the 1998 season, John Shaw forced Vermeil's hand in hiring a new offensive coordinator and Martz told Vermeil that Banks couldn't play. They got Trent Green, Marshal Faulk and Adam Timmerman that off season and then drafted Torry Holt (over Champ Bailey) to and the rest is sweet history.

 

[Ramhusker]

Does anybody think Goff is less ready to play now than he was in week 1? Does anybody think Goff is damaged goods for riding the pine so far? The Rams are 3-1. The offense has improved. I'd venture to say ALL the rookies on the O are better prepared for success than they were a month ago. I think the OL is starting to gel together despite a few injuries. Is our O better suited to support a rookie at QB today more so than it was a month ago? If we have a problem developing a QB this year, I don't think we have any evidence of it yet. The development strategy just might be different than what's popular with many here. Patience grasshoppers!

 

[VegasRam]

No, he inherited Banks - that was a Rich Brooks/Ortmayer pick. Same year that regime drafted Eddie "stone hands" Kennison over Marvin "hands like a ninja" Harrison and Lawrence "I'm drunk bitches" Phillips over Eddie "Heisman" George.

Banks was the first QB taken, but in the second round.

Rich Brooks commented at the time that that draft made the Rams "more explosive". crap blew up alright, but it was not Dicky V's doing.

After the 1998 season, John Shaw forced Vermeil's hand in hiring a new offensive coordinator and Martz told Vermeil that Banks couldn't play. They got Trent Green, Marshal Faulk and Adam Timmerman that off season and then drafted Torry Holt (over Champ Bailey) to and the rest is sweet history.

You're right my bad. Vermiel's first pick was Pace.
I knew that. alm: