Tua's TBI

[XXXIVwin]

Concussion expert Chris Nowinski was critical of the way Tua's injury was handled in the Bills game. Nowinski warned that Tua had no business playing against Bengals.

Concussion expert warned Tua Tagovailoa shouldn't play, now says brain damage is possible

Tua Tagovailoa shouldn't play, concussion expert Chris Nowinski tweeted before Thursday's Dolphins game. Now he fears the QB might have brain damage.

www.palmbeachpost.com

 

[RamDino]

I do not want to get into a medical debate, but I did not think that Tua would get a concussion from the hit from the Bills defender. In fact, it wasn't even a hit but rather a simple "push" down to the ground. I did see Tua's head snap back and hit the field, but didn't think it was enough to get concussed from. That is why I was buying the argument about his back being the reason for his staggering. We will find out more in time.

 

[den-the-coach]

The official view was that the concussion protocol wasn't followed because they "believed" it was a back issue.

Respecting what you have been through and I concur medical experts are not always right or on the same page and thank you for your service, one combat veteran to another.

In reference to Tua Tagovailoa, I felt the same way about Brandon Cooks years ago, in fact, I was glad the Rams traded him because of the number of concussions he had endured. I also felt he should retire immediately. Since then Cooks has gone on to be an excellent receiver in Houston & has not had another concussion since. Quite remarkable and it doesn't make it right, but it just showcases that others have done it and who knows the lingering effects down the road for Cooks, but Tagovailoa has to make that decision even though at times, players do need to be protected from themselves.

 

[IBruce80]

When I got back from Nam I knew I had a problem. The official VA diagnosis was PTSD so I was prescribed a bunch of psychologists. I fought for 6 years that the diagnosis was wrong. I knew it was TBI and began my own treatment regime. Finally, I was allowed a board of 3 neurologists who took 1 hour to say that it was TBI.

Respect to you, sir.

 

[OldSchool]

I'm not a tin foil hat guy at all either. But I do think doctors disagree with each other all the time. And it sounds like several concussion experts disagree (based on the video of Tua after the hit in the Bills game) with the neutral doctor who allowed Tua back in the game. Also, the diagnosis of a "mild" concussion can be difficult, especially if a patient feels motivated to be untruthful about subjective symptoms (such as dizziness or blurred vision or "not feeling quite right", etc. )

I'm not taking a side on this debate until after I hear more info about the investigation. I'm just saying there might not be easy answers, even after we get more info. Concussion diagnosis can be tricky, and doctors can have conflicting opinions.

Absolutely doctors can and do disagree about a diagnosis this isn't anything new and we've seen it adnauseam for the last couple of years about the subject which must not be discussed. The only thing we can assume with any degree of certainty is the neutral doctor cleared him to go back on the field. That doctor communicates straight to the officials. We saw this in one of our games when that doctor stopped a play mid touch down when we scored and stopped the play.

The bolded is what we should all be doing but very few of us are.

 

[tempests]

NFL Players Association terminates Unaffiliated Neurotrauma Consultant involved in Bills-Dolphins controversy​

The official investigation regarding the decision to clear Dolphins quarterback Tua Tagovailoa remains pending. For now, however, the NFL Players Association has decided to take action.

Per a source with knowledge of the situation, the NFLPA has exercised its prerogative to terminate the Unaffiliated Neurotrauma Consultant involved in the decision to clear Tua to return to action.

The concussion protocol provides that players who demonstrate gross motor instability may return only if the team physician, in consultation with the UNC, determines that the instability did not have a neurological cause.
Although specific findings have not been made regarding how and why Tua returned, the union lost confidence in the UNC, given that the impairment of the player was obvious. Based on the available video, Tua should not have returned.
Ravens coach John Harbaugh made that point on Friday, as tactfully as he could.
“I couldn’t believe what I saw last Sunday,” Harbaugh said regarding Tua clearly wobbling and later returning to the game. “It was just something that was astonishing to see. I’ve been coaching for 40 years now, college in the NFL, almost 40, and I’ve never seen anything like it before. I couldn’t believe what I was seeing.”
The NFLPA couldn’t believe it, either. And the union saw enough to move on from the UNC who was involved in the situation, regardless of the investigation’s specific findings.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.c...nsultant-involved-bills-dolphins-controversy/

 

[XXXIVwin]

NFL Players Association terminates Unaffiliated Neurotrauma Consultant involved in Bills-Dolphins controversy​

The official investigation regarding the decision to clear Dolphins quarterback Tua Tagovailoa remains pending. For now, however, the NFL Players Association has decided to take action.

Per a source with knowledge of the situation, the NFLPA has exercised its prerogative to terminate the Unaffiliated Neurotrauma Consultant involved in the decision to clear Tua to return to action.

The concussion protocol provides that players who demonstrate gross motor instability may return only if the team physician, in consultation with the UNC, determines that the instability did not have a neurological cause.
Although specific findings have not been made regarding how and why Tua returned, the union lost confidence in the UNC, given that the impairment of the player was obvious. Based on the available video, Tua should not have returned.
Ravens coach John Harbaugh made that point on Friday, as tactfully as he could.
“I couldn’t believe what I saw last Sunday,” Harbaugh said regarding Tua clearly wobbling and later returning to the game. “It was just something that was astonishing to see. I’ve been coaching for 40 years now, college in the NFL, almost 40, and I’ve never seen anything like it before. I couldn’t believe what I was seeing.”
The NFLPA couldn’t believe it, either. And the union saw enough to move on from the UNC who was involved in the situation, regardless of the investigation’s specific findings.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.c...nsultant-involved-bills-dolphins-controversy/

Well, we're all still gathering information, but from what I've seen and read about it so far, it sounds to me like the UNC (that cleared Tua in the Bills game) really, really screwed up.

 

[SteezyEndo]

View: https://www.instagram.com/p/CjJaO3EJSbQ/?igshid=NDc0ODY0MjQ=


So apparently he is fine and ready to get back to playing? Was a gun held to his head when he made this statement?

 

[Pancake]

I've seen that hit he took against the Bills and honestly it doesn't look like his head hit the ground very hard. That is scary. Whats going to happen when he takes a real shot and his head slams into the turf? If I were him I'd take the guaranteed 30 mil and go live a long, healthy and low stress life.

 

[rdlkgliders]

NFLPA fires independent doctor involved in treating Tua Tagovailoa injury

An NFLPA representative confirmed the independent doctor's dismissal Saturday to USA TODAY Sports.

www.usatoday.com

 

[12intheBox]

How bout that.

 

[XXXIVwin]

I've seen that hit he took against the Bills and honestly it doesn't look like his head hit the ground very hard.

The shove from the Bills player wasn't that hard... but it looked to me like Tua's head "whiplashed" pretty hard backward. His butt hit the ground first, and then his head whipped back pretty violently into the turf. Looked to me like it was definitely enough for the brain to shift inside his skull and cause a concussion. And yeah, the way Tua stumbled awkwardly afterwards was disturbing.

Here's a video of Tua's injury in the Bills game


View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=d5c_zR85ca4

 

[XXXIVwin]

What makes you think the protocol wasn't followed?

Just as a matter of clarification...

As I understand it, the phrase "concussion protocol" usually refers to the protocol that is followed BETWEEN games.

The "sideline evaluation for concussion" is the procedure that is followed by the UNC (independent doctor) at the time of the injury on game day, to determine whether the player can return to the game.

For Tua on Sunday, the UNC determined that he did NOT suffer a concussion. Therefore, the following Monday, and in the subsequent days leading up to the Bengals game, the Dolphins acknowledge that Tua was NOT in "concussion protocol".

Here's an article confirming that Tua was NOT in the "concussion protocol" last week:

Dolphins Quarterback Tua Tagovailoa Avoids Concussion Protocol - Sports Illustrated

Miami’s starting signal-caller briefly left Sunday’s game against Buffalo after taking a hard hit in the second quarter.

www.si.com

And here's another article that goes into more depth about the sideline evaluation criteria, and how Tua could have fallen into the "loophole" of the protocol:

We Need Answers to the Questions Surrounding Tua Tagovailoa’s Injuries | Sports Illustrated

 

[RamFan503]

It is interesting how many neurological experts there are. And how many people were there to examine Tua with the independent doctor responsible the night of the two games.

Yeah... I agree to an extent. But that shit looked BAD. And 1 week removed from a concussion and this one didn't even look like a harsh blow?

Boy I'd be reconsidering my line of work and collecting my pennies. He may have a life after football. Hopefully it's not as a vegetable.

 

[Jacobarch]

Football is a violent sport like it or not. Players know the risk. He's a man let him make his own choices

 

[OldSchool]

Yeah... I agree to an extent. But that shit looked BAD. And 1 week removed from a concussion and this one didn't even look like a harsh blow?

Boy I'd be reconsidering my line of work and collecting my pennies. He may have a life after football. Hopefully it's not as a vegetable.

It did look bad. And it's 1 week removed from what some people think was a concussion but we'd been told wasn't one. Now the independent doctor has been fired because he missed steps. It may have been a concussion but we really don't know because of the people in charge of inspecting him screwing up so badly.

Then after this weeks episode he was sent to a hospital to be checked out and they cleared him not just of concussion but to fly. You have a concussion no doctor in the world is going to clear you to fly no ifs ands or buts about it.

There have been enough mistakes and enough screwy things going on in games that everybody is rightfully confused. But I still circle back to the fact that nobody here regardless of their area of expertise or past experiences knows what happened with Tua.

 

[XXXIVwin]

You have a concussion no doctor in the world is going to clear you to fly no ifs ands or buts about it.

But I still circle back to the fact that nobody here regardless of their area of expertise or past experiences knows what happened with Tua.

Respectfully, I think I disagree with ya, OldSchool.

Regarding flying and concussions-- sounds like some recent research has suggested that flying is actually (surprisingly) NOT linked with a worsening of concussion symptoms. Here's an article about it:

Can you fly with a concussion? What to know after Tua Tagovailoa's hospitalization

Dolphins QB Tua Tagovailoa's horrific Thursday night injury stirred questions about the NFL's concussion protocol and how to care for the head injury.

www.usatoday.com

And as regards the question of "what injury did Tua experience in the Bills game", I'd argue that there are a few DEFINITIVE criteria for diagnosing a concussion. For example-- if he lost consciousness, even briefly, that would be an irrefutable sign. And I'd argue that the "gross motor instability" is a sure sign as well. We all saw the video... Tua held his head and then stumbled around like he was drunk, he almost fell completely over two separate times. The only question is, was this "gross motor instability" caused by a hit to the head, or by "tweaking his back"?

The fact that the UNC was fired strongly suggests that Tua's "gross motor instability" was not caused by a back injury.

Therefore, if it is indeed the case that Tua's stumbling around was caused by the blow to the head he experienced just seconds earlier, I'd argue that's pretty irrefutable proof he suffered a concussion. We'll see what happens in the next few days, but my prediction is that doctors are going to be pretty unanimous in saying, "Yeah, of course Tua suffered a concussion in the Bills game, the video is all the proof that's needed."

Anyway, just my opinion, and glad to keep the discussion civil as always, cheers.

 

[rdlkgliders]

We seem to be flirting with what we can and can not have strong opinions on in regard to the 4 days of Tua and the 2 plays.
"He absolutely was concussed, he absolutely wasn't concussed, Tua absolutely would not be cleared to fly had he suffered a concussion. The DR's were absolutely following protocol and acted in Tua's best interest........ on and on"

Injuries like this occur all the time without being this polarizing so apparently, it is a discussable topic and questioning has merit.
We all know that this is a Football Group and we often discuss without the luxury of absolutes and that is often the charm.

I am far from an "expert" however I found it strange that after bouncing his head off the ground he got up shaking his head never reached for his back, did reach for his head ran forward like one would while drunk and off balance which would be strange to me being running seems a strange response to a back injury.

I agree the decision to play again is his but the way the league the NFLPA and the medical experts with the responsibility of keeping players safe and the NFL from being liable need to continue to grow their knowledge base and how it is applied

 

[Flint]

I've seen that hit he took against the Bills and honestly it doesn't look like his head hit the ground very hard. That is scary. Whats going to happen when he takes a real shot and his head slams into the turf? If I were him I'd take the guaranteed 30 mil and go live a long, healthy and low stress life.

If he would decide to retire they probably want some of that money back, if he can’t pass a physical that’s different.

 

[oldnotdead]

When you have the power to stop self-destructive behavior and do nothing their blood is on your hands. The NFL knows what TBI and CTE are. CTE is a result of repeated TBI. The NFL knows this there is no doubt about it. At what point do you say "I'm sorry but you can't play anymore." Take their millions and drink beer on a hot beach with a hot babe.

The NFL should ensure all players forced into retirement are provided for in terms of lifetime healthcare and income. The NFLPA is complicit in this problem. What Tua experienced was not the average concussion. It was full blown TBI that was clear to anyone with experience watching the game. That is a concussion on steroids. That's why he needs to be shut down now. The only cure is to stop playing and exposing himself.

Someone needs to talk to him honestly in all seriousness about what he is facing and the long term consequences of additional trauma. Unfortunately from Tua's comments, no one is. I was lucky I had a neurologist who did that for me. I was going to make the military my career with a specialty in trauma care. I had just made E5 after 2.5 years so my career path looked good. But with a trauma hold on my record, it would stifle my continuation as I wouldn't be deployable. So I knew my then-current enlistment would be my last.

I'm 73 and I was 21 then. I've lived a good and very happy life. I've got good memories I can still recount. I've never regretted one day of walking away from my planned career path, and I didn't have $30M to live on either. The Navy was rightly not willing to extend me and one neurologist talking to me was the best thing that could have happened to me.