TNF: Dolphins@Ravens

[Prime Time]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...ing-himself-in-altercation-with-ryan-mallett/

Ndamukong Suh says he was defending himself in altercation with Ryan Mallett
Posted by Curtis Crabtree on October 27, 2017

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Dolphins defensive tackle Ndamukong Suh is claiming self-defense in his decision to shove Ravens quarterback Ryan Mallett in the throat late in Thursday night’s game in Baltimore.

On a third-and-1 at the Dolphins 3-yard line with seven minutes remaining, Suh jumped offsides through the offensive line and shoved Mallett as the play was being blown deal. Mallett took offense and got into Suh’s face before Suh grabbed him by the neck and shoved him away.

The play devolved from there was William Hayes poked Ravens tackle Ronnie Stanley in the eye after the Mallett/Suh incident, which was the last of three defensive penalties called on Miami on one snap.

Suh, who has a history of detrimental conduct against opposing players, said he was just defending himself.

“Simple as this,” Suh said, via Chris Perkins of the South Florida Sun-Sentinel. “He came at me and tried to attack me, and I’m protecting myself.”

He said he didn’t regret the encounter either saying he will always protect himself.

Given prior incidents, Suh probably isn’t likely to receive the benefit of the doubt from the league. The fact he was already called for another unnecessary roughness penalty earlier in the night won’t help either. The fact that Mallett never even placed his hands on Suh in retaliation also makes his self-defense claim somewhat lacking in substance.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...-way-he-could-have-avoided-hit-on-joe-flacco/

Kiko Alonso: “No way” he could have avoided hit on Joe Flacco
Posted by Curtis Crabtree on October 27, 2017

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Miami Dolphins linebacker Kiko Alonso doesn’t think the hit was avoidable.

Alonso’s thunderous blow to Baltimore Ravens quarterback Joe Flacco on a second quarter scramble knocked Flacco out of the game with a concussion. Flacco tried to slide to the ground and Alonso hit Flacco in the head, which left Flacco with a concussion and a lacerated ear that required stitches.

Alonso doesn’t think he could have avoided the contact due to the timing of Flacco’s slide.

“No. I mean no way,” Alonso said, via Omar Kelly of the South Florida Sun-Sentinel. “That’s the target. When a guy slides the target is very small. I just think it was like a second late, which is why I hit him to be honest with you.

“At first I was anticipating him (sliding) and thought he was going to slide and then it got to the point where I was like ‘I got to hit him’ cause he slid too late. It was bang, bang (play).

“He got to the point where maybe if he slid a second sooner… I was anticipating he was going to slide and I was going to not hit him but I think it was like a second late which is why I hit him.”

Flacco was ruled out shortly after the collision and will need to pass through concussion protocol in order to return to the field for the Ravens. He was an extra few days to be cleared before the team’s next game against the Tennessee Titans next Sunday.

Alonso could face a fine or possible suspension for the collision. Whether he could have avoided it or not, the NFL puts the onus on the defensive player to avoid the collision in those situations.

Alonso said he’s not sure what to expect from the league regarding discipline for the play.

“That’s out of my hands,” he said. “Like I said, it’s a bang, bang play and I hope he’s all right. I truly do.”

 

[Prime Time]

https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/10/26/miami-dolphins-baltimore-ravens-thursday-night-football-mmqb

Kiko Alonso’s Hit on Joe Flacco Shows Problems in NFL’s Safety Guidelines
By Conor Orr

Three thoughts from the Ravens’ 40-0 win over the Dolphins on Thursday Night Football...

1. The hit everyone is talking about. The bewildered look on Joe Flacco’s face, even a full minute after Dolphins linebacker Kiko Alonso blasted the Ravens quarterback in the head with a hard right shoulder, stayed with anyone watching Thursday night’s Dolphins-Ravens game.


View: https://twitter.com/WillBrinson/status/923726023786680326?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.si.com%2Fnfl%2F2017%2F10%2F26%2Fmiami-dolphins-baltimore-ravens-thursday-night-football-mmqb

The aftermath was about 45 seconds of chaos. Flacco wobbling to the sideline and eventually into concussion protocol, eyes wide open and mouth agape. Alonso getting pummeled to the ground by 320-pound offensive lineman Ryan Jensen and having his helmet forcibly removed by a hard right-handed swing. Ndamukong Suh knocking Jensen to the turf in retribution. Ravens head coach John Harbaugh screaming at Alonso. And yet Flacco was the only player who had to leave the game.

It all started when Flacco, who was eventually ruled out with a concussion and an ear laceration that required stitches, wheeled out of the pocket on a third-and-10 at the Miami 20-yard line. As he was sliding to the ground, Alonso closed in hard from midfield and seemed to hammer his right shoulder toward the ground. His pads clipped Flacco’s helmet, spun it off his head and ignited a micro-Royal Rumble with about three minutes to go until halftime.

Officials scrambled to get the scene under control, but missed the opportunity to restore order to a game that only got uglier as the night wore on. Kicking Alonso off the field seemed like the obvious choice, but this is what happens when gut instincts are pinballed through a thousand different qualifiers.

The NFL’s operations manual on sliding players reads as follows:

(1) Defenders are required to treat a sliding runner as they would a runner who is down by contact.

(2) A defender must pull up when a runner begins a feet-first slide. This does not mean that all contact by a defender is illegal. If a defender has already committed himself, and the contact is unavoidable, it is not a foul unless the defender makes forcible contact into the head or neck area of the runner with the helmet, shoulder, or forearm, or commits some other act that is unnecessary roughness.

(3) A runner who desires to take advantage of this protection is responsible for starting his slide before contact by a defensive player is imminent; if he does not, and waits until the last moment to begin his slide, he puts himself in jeopardy of being contacted.

It also gives officials grounds to eject a player if they deem a player defenseless on the ground and a hit overtly flagrant.

At halftime, the CBS broadcast showed a bird’s eye view of the play and how close Flacco was to the first-down marker (about two yards) when he started an awkward slide. At that moment, Alonso already seems to be leaning off one foot and barreling toward Flacco.

Does that mean Alonso was right? The moment represented a microcosm of one central issue facing NFL officiating crews this season: How far should they be willing to go in order to protect the game’s lifeblood (quarterbacks) against the backdrop of an Infinite Jest-sized rule book that seems to have a rigid guideline for everything? Alonso certainly will receive his punishment this week, but will it be considered too late?

2. That was not the end of the scrums. With 6:50 to go in the fourth quarter, another scuffle broke out resulting in two personal fouls on the Dolphins defense. The slow motion image of Dolphins defensive tackle Ndamukong Suh grabbing Ryan Mallett by the throat will be another lowlight for the league’s officiating crew to stew over Friday morning.

Suh chipped Mallett in the backfield well after a handoff, which prompted the Ravens quarterback to get in Suh’s face. Almost instantly, Suh raised his left hand, wrapped it around Mallett’s neck and shoved him forward. All this happened, by the way, while Ravens offensive lineman Austin Howard was battling Dolphins defensive end William Hayes.

This is what losing control of a game looks like from an official’s perspective. I think Tony Romo spoke for many of us while watching the replay against the sound of booing in Baltimore: “Looks like we’re going to actually snap this ball and finish this game, so I can go home.”

3. So much for Matt Moore yanking Jay Cutler’s starting job from underneath him. Cutler (cracked ribs) was in street clothes for Thursday’s farce and will be back under center as soon as he’s deemed healthy enough to play. Miraculously, the Dolphins (4-3) still have a winning record and could finish the weekend tied for second place in the AFC East behind the Patriots.

But the bottom line was ugly. Before the game, the Miami Herald reported that it would take a "Marino-like" performance for Cutler to lose the starting job. Moore threw two interceptions returned for touchdowns. Miami gained fewer than 200 total yards and punted eight times in 28 minutes of possession. Your job is waiting for you, Jay.

 

[OldSchool]

Poor lil Suh getting intimidated by the big mean backup QB.

 

[Prime Time]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...g-but-only-kiko-alonsos-penalty-was-enforced/

Official threw flag on Ryan Jensen for retaliating, but only Kiko Alonso’s penalty was enforced
Posted by Michael David Smith on October 27, 2017

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Dolphins linebacker Kiko Alonso was penalized for hitting Ravens quarterback Joe Flacco on Thursday night, but what hasn’t been explained is why Alonso was the only one penalized.

In an ensuing scrum, multiple players clearly engaged in post-play hits that should have been flagged. And in fact, Ravens center Ryan Jensen was flagged — it just wasn’t enforced.

The video clearly shows that the line judge, Jeff Seeman, threw his flag not on Alonso’s hit but only after Jensen retaliated by drilling Alonso. Seeman was looking directly at Jensen and Alonso and threw the flag immediately after Jensen jumped on Alonso.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4M1O0X5488

So why, once the officials broke up the scrum and discussed the penalties, did they only enforce the penalty on Alonso? The most likely answer is that they thought Alonso’s hit was so flagrant that it wouldn’t be right to wipe it out with an offsetting penalty. But that’s not an official’s job: The officials are supposed to call the penalties they see, not decide to overrule one penalty with another, more flagrant penalty.

Meanwhile, Dolphins defensive tackle Ndamukong Suh jumped on Jensen after that, and Suh should have been flagged as well, but wasn’t. Suh did draw two personal fouls later in the game, but he should have had three.

The league office will surely discipline Alonso, and Jensen, Suh and other players in the post-play scrum. Those players also should have been penalized at the time, but only Alonso was.

 

[-X-]

Looks like he slid too late to me. Flacco would have been better off leading with his shoulder if he was trying to get the first down. Can't expect a defender to anticipate a slide there at that last possible second. And yes, I would say the same thing if it happened to Goff. Keenum woulda TRUCKED Alonso though. Tell ya that much. =)

 

[Snaz]

Two offsetting personal fouls plus and an additional personal foul = 1 personal foul. Enforced correctly in my opinion. The other two offsetting to occurred after the play was over. So you only enforce the one.

 

[Snaz]

Flacco slid very late, but if you watch it, Kiko Alonso though targeted Flacco with his shoulder. No attempt to pull up or lessen the blow, and he should have. If Flacco didn't slide then Alonso was targeting his knee? Don't buy it, he went low to punish Flacco and thought he could get away with it.

 

[dieterbrock]

Looks to me like he slid too late

 

[OldSchool]

My favorite part of this is it should end the cte issue. It's the players fault it seems that other players hit the in the head after all.

 

[RamFan503]

bullcrap. I see players avoid hitting a sliding QB like that every week.

Joyner's hit was illegal. I don't think it was intentional from Joyner, though. Alonso's hit was intentional.

Nah. You see QBs getting hit all the time when they start their slide that late. The elbow contacting the helmet is what sets this one apart IMO.

No, they don't. Those players just know to pull off. Let's put it this way, Flacco was on the ground when Alonso hit him. If Alonso were just trying to tackle him and not aiming for his head, why was he aiming so low? What LB aims for a QB's shins/knees?

Yeah - I'm gonna say bullshit here. As soon as a defensive player gives a QB less than a half second to slide because he thinks he is going to slide, the QBs push it just that much farther. As to the low part? You move with your target. Sorry but you are going after him and if he slides before you launch, you can hold up. You change your trajectory to match your target once you have committed. And sorry man but if the QB gives you a shot at him, you take it. You simply can't allow him to turn these runs into 1st downs because you were pulling up when he takes another couple steps before the slide he's probably going to take. The elbow is what I see as the foul. But Flacco absolutely deserves some of the blame. He gave Alonso that shot. He has to get down sooner. He can't feel like he is safe running across the middle of the field. He's the QB and is already protected too much. He tried to push it too far. And Alonso's hit, while deserving a penalty, is only about 6" lower than where Flacco's waist would have been had he tried to juke instead of sliding.

I can't believe I trusted Moore....with all my ROD$$$......how am I gonna catch some of you guys????

Did you not watch OSU when he was there?

It was the elbow that made it dirty

Not sure how that’s debatable

That's what I see. He gave him that added "get that shit out of here" elbow to the head.

Flacco's an idiot. He should've taken a powder a yard or two sooner. Was it worth it Joe?

That being said, Alonzo should've at least made an attempt at turning his shoulder away. He decided Flacco's was going to stay up and went for the kill shot.

Bottom line? They're both wrong. They both freaked it up.

Pretty much exactly what I saw. And after watching it about fifty times, I still see it that way.

Flacco doesn't bear the responsibility here any more than a WR who goes up for a catch bears the responsibility for a SS launching into his head with the crown of his helmet.

Apples and oranges much? It was the elbow to the helmet - not the timing of the hit. A SS launching with the helmet is equal to the elbow to the head but that has zero to do with a QB and the timing of his slide. Flacco deserves part of the blame because he slid too late - not because his head was in the way of Alonso's elbow.

Include @kurtfaulk and @LACHAMP46 and everybody else who's standing up for Alonso but you guys are making him out to be an even bigger scumbag than @jrry32 and I are making him out to be. If he wasn't going for the big hit and new he Flacco was going to be sliding then he was diving straight at the dudes knees. Take your pick either way the guy made a dirty intentional play. He was either head hunting or knee hunting either way it was dirty.

I'm not standing up for Alonso (though he is a former Oregon boy). I don't think he would have gone at the knees if Flacco stayed up. It would have been more at the thigh or waist level. Personally, I think Flacco was trying to pull the shit I get so tired of seeing QBs get away with. They are protected to the point where they feel they can draw a flag anytime they can get a defender to hit them in any way that might get the referee's attention.

I'm not going to comb through everything as I'm quite certain I didn't say Alonzo's hit was clean. I believe I said he was going for a kill shot. I'm not defending Alonzo.

What seems to be lost in all this is that, in my opinion, I believe Flacco should've slid earlier. Had he done so, he likely doesn't get hit.

Yep - pretty much what you said before.

:banghead::banghead::banghead:

Late slides by a QB tick me off more than almost anything else in the game. There are certain QBs... like the umpa loompa in Seadderall... who do it with the intent to draw the extra 15 yards.

Flacco slid too late. He should have been blown up.

The hit was illegal though with the elbow to the helmet. If he would have just hit him without that extra "business" it may not have drawn a flag.

And probably shouldn't have.

(2) A defender must pull up when a runner begins a feet-first slide. This does not mean that all contact by a defender is illegal. If a defender has already committed himself, and the contact is unavoidable, it is not a foul unless the defender makes forcible contact into the head or neck area of the runner with the helmet, shoulder, or forearm, or commits some other act that is unnecessary roughness.

(3) A runner who desires to take advantage of this protection is responsible for starting his slide before contact by a defensive player is imminent; if he does not, and waits until the last moment to begin his slide, he puts himself in jeopardy of being contacted.

What yuh think? A little from Column 2 and a little from Column 3?

 

[OldSchool]

I'm not standing up for Alonso (though he is a former Oregon boy). I don't think he would have gone at the knees if Flacco stayed up. It would have been more at the thigh or waist level. Personally, I think Flacco was trying to pull the crap I get so tired of seeing QBs get away with. They are protected to the point where they feel they can draw a flag anytime they can get a defender to hit them in any way that might get the referee's attention.

I get what you're saying but I've watched that clip just now several more times and he's going right at the knees if Flacco, who is 6'6" tall, if not for the slide. All we've heard is the slide was too late and Alonso was committed to the tackle it's Joe's fault. If he doesn't slide it's as bad if not worse because Joe's so tall it's right at those knees. If you watch the sideline view you can see the defender behind him Alonso comes in at that guys knee height while running. That other defender happens to be Suh who is 2" shorter than Flacco. So if he's coming in at the height Suh's knee's he's absolutely going shoulder first into Flacco.

One play doesn't make a guy dirty I'm not putting him on the level of his scumbag teammate or Burfect or one of the Harrison idiots. But this was a dirty hit. Alonso committed to the dive tackle and led with the shoulder.

 

[kurtfaulk]

.

have another drink joe, while you lament your foolish decision to slide a yard too late.

.

 

[VilleDeal]

Glad many people see it like I did/do.
I still say put flags on the players you do not want to be subjected to getting hit.

 

[RamFan503]

I get what you're saying but I've watched that clip just now several more times and he's going right at the knees if Flacco, who is 6'6" tall, if not for the slide. All we've heard is the slide was too late and Alonso was committed to the tackle it's Joe's fault. If he doesn't slide it's as bad if not worse because Joe's so tall it's right at those knees. If you watch the sideline view you can see the defender behind him Alonso comes in at that guys knee height while running. That other defender happens to be Suh who is 2" shorter than Flacco. So if he's coming in at the height Suh's knee's he's absolutely going shoulder first into Flacco.

One play doesn't make a guy dirty I'm not putting him on the level of his scumbag teammate or Burfect or one of the Harrison idiots. But this was a dirty hit. Alonso committed to the dive tackle and led with the shoulder.

The thing I see and Alonso said it himself. you move with the target. It's a small target. Even though he was too late to hold up, it doesn't mean you have no body control. You can still drop as the target drops. I think you've played before. You know this. I think if Flacco stays up, so does Alonso. I agree the shot with the elbow seemed shitty but take that away and I don't think it is a dirty play. In fact, I think it is completely legit at that point.

 

[SteezyEndo]

Sorry I had a flash back....

 

[RamFan503]

Sorry I had a flash back....

Yeah see now THAT deserves a suspension. And a long one at that. Suh has had too many warnings already.

 

[kurtfaulk]

Yeah see now THAT deserves a suspension. And a long one at that. Suh has had too many warnings already.

it deserves nothing but an atta boy. you wanna get in someone's face talking shit you better be prepared for retaliation. these are grown men who don't take kindly to stiffs shit talking to them in their grill.

.

 

[RedRam]

I had to wonder if some poop came out of Mallett at that moment...

 

[SteezyEndo]

I had to wonder if some poop came out of Mallett at that moment...

Pretty sure he sharted.

 

[RedRam]

Pretty sure he sharted.

Seems justifiable!