Tick, tick, Brian Quick
- Thread starter CGI_Ram
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Brian Quick - First two seasons: (so far)
22 receptions, 382 yards, 3 TDs (long of 73)
Vincent Jackson - First two seasons:
30 receptions, 512 yards, 6 TDs (long of 55)
How about we let the season play out, and then we can ridicule Snead for saying Quick reminds him of Vincent Jackson, or that Quick is already a wasted pick (after 1.5 seasons). Because as it stands right now, physically, he is reminiscent of Jackson, and stat-wise, he's not very far behind VJ's first two years. In fact, he's on pace for this stat line after two years. Feel free to compare:
28 receptions, 516 yards, 4-5 TDs (still a long of 73).
22 receptions, 382 yards, 3 TDs (long of 73)
Vincent Jackson - First two seasons:
30 receptions, 512 yards, 6 TDs (long of 55)
How about we let the season play out, and then we can ridicule Snead for saying Quick reminds him of Vincent Jackson, or that Quick is already a wasted pick (after 1.5 seasons). Because as it stands right now, physically, he is reminiscent of Jackson, and stat-wise, he's not very far behind VJ's first two years. In fact, he's on pace for this stat line after two years. Feel free to compare:
28 receptions, 516 yards, 4-5 TDs (still a long of 73).
I gave him a 'redshirt' year last year, but he definitely needs to show that he can be a matchup problem and someone to account for. I think he'll make the jump soon, similar to T. Austin. I still look at Alshon Jeffrey and wish we would've grabbed him.
Not sure why Snead keeps insisting to compare the two. Other than the small schools, VJ is much better in every other attribute. VJ is/was faster, better vertical, shuttle, more bench reps, hands, height, intelligence(BQ's biggest issue, IMO. VJ had a 33 on wonderlic, BQ had an 8) etc. I wouldn't consider the two similar when they were prospects.
What I find curious, is how fans seems to think its as simple as saying just find him plays so he can contribute. People seem to think that Austin's break out game somehow was merely Schottenheimer "deciding" to draw up some "special plays" so they can finally show what Austin can do.
It's just not that simple. The Indy game was more about what Indy was doing, than it was about the Rams somehow "figuring it out" regarding Austin's breakout performance.
Same thing can be said about Quick. Add in the fact that this entire offense is still "trying to figure out" who they are and what they have to be to be successful, to expect any single player to be the focus on a week to week to basis is just not realistic.
Now add to the mix that you have a backup QB, while performing better than expected, is limited in his ability to get the ball downfield. (and please spare me the one long pass to Austin), someone like Quick is just not going to have as many opportunities. They only threw the ball SIXTEEN times and won by 30.
I have been one of the biggest proponents of what Brian Quick is to this team. After watching him through TWO training camps, and seeing what he is able to do WHEN targeted, I still maintain he is the most athletic and gifted WR on the roster. How long will it take for him to be utilized in that role? Who knows, but I don't think its has as much to do with anything QUICK is or isn't doing, as it is about this offense trying to find its identity in general.
Other than Stacy, name ONE player who has produced at even a similar level as last year. Givens? NOT!.. Pettis? not with all the chances he was given at the start of the season. Kendricks? not IMO. Missing ALL of training camp took a toll on his early season production, and he was just starting to approach the level he was at last year before breaking his finger. Cook? has shown flashes, but his inconsistency mirrors the offense as a whole. So to think Brian Quick, who is one guy who has in fact out performed last years production, is more about fans expectations than it is about anything else.
It's just not that simple. The Indy game was more about what Indy was doing, than it was about the Rams somehow "figuring it out" regarding Austin's breakout performance.
Same thing can be said about Quick. Add in the fact that this entire offense is still "trying to figure out" who they are and what they have to be to be successful, to expect any single player to be the focus on a week to week to basis is just not realistic.
Now add to the mix that you have a backup QB, while performing better than expected, is limited in his ability to get the ball downfield. (and please spare me the one long pass to Austin), someone like Quick is just not going to have as many opportunities. They only threw the ball SIXTEEN times and won by 30.
I have been one of the biggest proponents of what Brian Quick is to this team. After watching him through TWO training camps, and seeing what he is able to do WHEN targeted, I still maintain he is the most athletic and gifted WR on the roster. How long will it take for him to be utilized in that role? Who knows, but I don't think its has as much to do with anything QUICK is or isn't doing, as it is about this offense trying to find its identity in general.
Other than Stacy, name ONE player who has produced at even a similar level as last year. Givens? NOT!.. Pettis? not with all the chances he was given at the start of the season. Kendricks? not IMO. Missing ALL of training camp took a toll on his early season production, and he was just starting to approach the level he was at last year before breaking his finger. Cook? has shown flashes, but his inconsistency mirrors the offense as a whole. So to think Brian Quick, who is one guy who has in fact out performed last years production, is more about fans expectations than it is about anything else.
My problem with Quick isn't his lack of production it's what I've seen from him when he actually does get a chance. Thus far, I haven't seen much natural ability to go get the ball and worse, much desire. Being raw in terms of experience, running the route tree, reading the defense, seeing the field the same way as your QB, blitz adjustments and all the rest are things I expected him to take time with. But he's had plenty of opportunities to make a play on catchable balls and just stood there. Maybe, hopefully it's just a confidence issue and he does bloom into the receiving stud that everyone hopes but I just haven't seen a guy with natural talent trying to acclimate. I've seen a physical specimen who doesn't play football at an NFL level.
Its the 8 on the wunderlic that worries me. He just seems a lil dumb to me. Not that he has to be Steve friggin Hawking, but at least show that the light is on in there. Hoping he figures it out.
He's not insisting on anything. He said it once, and as a scout himself, why wouldn't he be entitled to that opinion? Especially since that's the primary method for his scouting (e.g., "who does this player [visually] remind me of?") And how do you know VJ is much better in every other attribute? I just showed you how they're on pace to have nearly identical seasons in their first two years. If you want to talk about scouting numbers, then let's do that now.
Jackson:
40 yard dash: 4.46
20 yard dash: 2.63
10 yard dash: 1.57
Vertical: 39 inches
Broad: 10.9 feet
Bench: 23 reps
Quick
40 yard dash: 4.50
20 yard dash: 2.53
10 yard dash: 1.47
Vertical: 34 inches
Broad: 10 feet
Bench: 15 reps
I wouldn't say, based on that, that Jackson dominated Quick at the combine. If anything, I'd say Quick has a much faster initial burst. On the field, Quick showed no indication that he can't strong arm a DB (think: SF last year), and his vertical doesn't seem to be hampering him any (think: MIN last year). If their numbers are (projected to be) nearly identical, and Quick has the upside that Snead thinks he has (and he's realizing it), then what's the problem?
Mental acumen, right now, is the only thing holding him back. If he can fully grasp NFL defensive concepts and get in sync with the QB on reads and blitz pickups, then there's no stopping this kid in the next several years. I, for one, have faith in his ability as well as faith in the coaches to get him there.
If you want to judge burst and change of direction, I prefer the 20 yard shuttle and broad jump. As for the coaches, I have little faith they can get him there. Our best WR has actually regressed this year and the rest have done little to nothing. The coaching of this team has been very Jekyll and Hyde this year. There have been some very questionable moves that have many questioning what the Rams were thinking. I know you don't agree but it's been mentioned many places. I'm not just pulling this out of nowhere. And even if the coaching isn't the issue, I just don't believe in Quick. If a guy is afraid of hands in his face, no amount of coaching is going to change that.
Here is a link to Pro Football reference so you can see for yourself Jackson had 30 catches his first 2 years.
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/JackVi00.htm
I prefer not to use combine numbers to assess a player's worth. As a rule, really. I was only commenting on how your concept of their combine numbers somehow translated to an indictment of Snead's opinion of Quick. Not only are their numbers close, but they can't really be used to debunk an opinion from the GM about Quick's potential. He sees the player one way, fans see him another. Is what it is.
Faith in the coaches is a personal opinion, and yeah ... we differ on that. I'm not going to exhaust a lot of time in trying to make you see things my way, just like you won't take the time to make me believe they're bad coaches (e.g., futile endeavors). I firmly believe that execution has been the issue with this young team this year, and now that they're starting to come together, the production is beginning to manifest itself. Should it have happened much sooner? Yeah, I guess. But here's the thing. They designed this offense around all of these receivers getting open and running crisp routes with the QB having more than a couple of seconds to let the routes develop. That didn't happen. The O-line was shaky early on, the running game sputtered, and the receivers weren't fully acclimated with the scheme yet. The result was spotty execution. Those things have improved as a result of the coaches being pragmatic and adjusting the scheme to what the offense could do well. As well as a refocus on the run game predicated on coaching the O-line to get their collective shit together.
The defense was this team's achilles heel as well early on, and that too has since improved quite a bit. Injuries to the safety position, new players on the front 7, and a new scheme appeared to be the culprits, but now they're getting it together too.
As a result, the level of competition and resolve this team demonstrates week in and week out has improved dramatically over the past 6 weeks. If the coaches didn't know what they were doing, it would be a whole lot worse right now.
Vincent Jackson and Demaryius Thomas weren't exactly Pro-Bowl players in their first two years either, and Quick's second year isn't even over yet. It does take most wide receivers three years to grow into who they really are. Maybe we should give Quick a little more time before we throw the baby out with the bathwater?
Four years is a bit long for my tastes but it really is going to depend on what that fourth year brings. One of my biggest problems with that is if he takes his entire rookie contract to bust out on the scene, he is going to want to be paid like a #1 receiver. So we either at that point pay the man or let him walk. I would hate to see him take four years to develop and then we are forced into a situation of either paying him big and cutting someone else or letting him walk only to become special elsewhere. I'd be less pissed if we simply missed on a 2nd round pick.
If he plays like a #1, whatever that means, in his last year of his rookie contract doesn't he deserve to be paid like one thinking he will produce like one going forward? I'd rather pay a young guy hitting his stride than a guy on the downhill side of his career.
Whether he deserves it or not isn't the question for me. He is being paid like others who DO produce within their rookie contracts BTW. But that is beside the point. I just would like to see us get some value out of his first contract. And I hate one year wonders that have a really good contract year and look like they are going up with a bullet only to have them level off after you have paid them enough to keep them off other teams. So yes, I'd much rather sign a young guy on the upswing than an older guy heading down but I'd like to see him pay some dividends BEFORE that contract so we not only get better bang from our draft but also see that there is a somewhat reliable trend.
Well hopefully we will see increased production again next year and then good numbers again in 2015. But there is only 1 ball and with Austin and Cook Stacy or whoever is the RB. I don't expect to see any one guy with 120 catches a year it would be great with me to see 3 or 4 guys with 75-80 catches a year and a RB with 1200+ yards rushing. Spread it around and keep the opposing defenses guessing.
Yeah - I think what we should be able to expect though is to see games in which he excels due to match-ups. It's not like teams are doubling him so his numbers are low. And I'm not down on him at all actually. I may not understand why he isn't getting the touches but I see him make some hard nosed blocks and I think the guy really WANTS to be good. From what I see, he can be and probably WILL be. I'd be just fine with 75-80 catches and/or him drawing the tough defensive assignments. The guy averages 20 yards per catch. At that rate, 50 - 60 would be great if we are getting production elsewhere as well.
I think part of the problem is so many people put these type of expectations regarding numbers, and equate them with being successful. Not accusing YOU of this, but that just wreaks of Fantasy Football mentality.
To me, the thing that keeps being overlooked, when it comes to the numbers game, and these sort of predictions, is the type of offense this team needs to play to be successful. Like it or not, they need to run the ball first and foremost, and everything in the passing game will come out of that. Be it play action or being balanced at best, expecting any of our receivers to be in that 75-80 catch range is setting them up for disappointment. If that is truly what people expect from Quick, or anyone else in THIS offense, then I don't think he will ever live up to those expectations.
For me, what does he accomplish in the RedZone? Does he develop into a guy that will make the tough catch on 3rd down, and stretch the field on occasion (i.e. vs. Carolina). If and when he becomes a reliable target, he should be the PERFECT compliment to BOTH Givens and Austin.