There's a certain kind of fan...

[Ramstien]

I have been a fan thru the lean years like going 1 & 15 while earning the 1st pick in the draft and selecting Bradford. He was not surrounded by much talent and who knows what he could have done with the current players and coaches. I remember watching the games with the hope of just seeing a ram player make one good play. Of course. I also saw Roman Gabriel throwing to Jack Snow and that fearsome foursome. I hate these fair weather fans but every good team has them. They have not suffered with their team thru the lean years.

 

[Riverumbbq]

Maybe I'm seeing this debate a bit differently over the OL and our picking TuTu with our first draft pick. Many folks were reluctant to place any early trust or hope that Corbett could or would be capable of taking over the starting Center duties for 2021. Thing is we had no 2020 pre-season and a shortened training camp due to Covid, and while I believed Corbett was the ideal man to be groomed for the position at that time, I also recall that Blythe was re-signed just a day or two before he'd be qualified to become a 2020 free agent, so without the benefit of a regular camp and any pre-season games, the Rams felt cornered, unable to being able to get Corbett prepared properly to take over. Fans were quite disappointed that Blythe was re-signed and that carried right thru to the following season where many of us were concerned the same might happen again for 2021. My appreciation of Corbett's ability to nail down the Center position still didn't preclude my desiring the drafting of Quinn Meinerz though, as I liked him first as a competitor at OG and second as a potential future Center following his rookie season. Rams management must have been impressed enough at the time that Corbett would be fine and that they felt Allen's rehab & development was coming across nicely enough that they would have no such qualms as we fans were expressing.
I was as shocked as most when Tutu's name was called, although I wasn't one to melt down over it. I believed that picking up DeSean Jackson would suffice in bringing in the speed guy, although it was easy enough to understand that Tutu would be groomed as his future replacement while hopefully answering our 2021 need as a punt returner, ... school's still out on how that will eventually play out. Still, I was disappointed that our early draft pick wasn't used on an offensive lineman, any offensive lineman, as I also had an eye on the future and Whitworth's imminent retirement as well as how soon many of our current guys would be qualifying for free agency.

Evidently, management had an early and better feeling for a couple of our later round & undrafted OL like Anchrum & Brewer, although the Demby project is still baffling. While there was much concern over neglecting offensive linemen during the 2021 draft, the Rams did bring in 3 UDFA's in Alaric Jackson, Jordan Meredith and Max Pircher, then McVay made the point that getting Brewer back after his 2020 absence was like getting another draft pick. How many of these guys make the 53 roster is still unknown, although they do provide depth, even if they aren't some of the names we were calling out during the draft. The Rams have been pretty good at scouting out late round players, whether using data analytics or more traditional means, so automatically writing off some these less known players may be a mistake. I have even tried to make the point that the Rams may have accumulated too much quality OL depth, as an argument might even be made to carry an unconventional 10 players on the 53 roster, although this will likely not occur.

I suppose there are fans which appear to get too emotionally wrapped up with favorite players over the team as a whole, I don't pay much attention to them, and unless they can bring a solid argument to the debate table, it's easier to dismiss their comments. Still, this forum offers up many opinions which are informative, valuable and can add enough new perspective to open our minds to creative thought. jmo.

 

[So Ram]

If you have to root for one of your players to fail in order to say I told you so, the game cannot be enjoyable. I remember the Bradford debates. The Goff debates. As long as they were Rams players I was on their side. Defending them. Being called a "Bradford mom or Goff mom". As soon as they were jettisoned, I was no longer on their side. I was on Nick Foles side. Now I'm Matt Stafford's side. But dang, it sure was hard to defend Case Keenum.

The Warner & Bulger was a thing. I was trade SJ39. It sucked lossing & seeing where cap space went. Ty Hill vs I said Cutler.
I hope those guys did good.Tory Holt & Corey Chavous did there own draft shows as they were in The NFL.
Just upset he told management how good he was as a CB.I’m not sure about all that though ?

Then what about Mike Quick or whatever his first name was. Part of the dumb & dumber group .
Les Snead & Fisher had Bradford secretly throw to him ? Maybe it was the backup QB. I don’t know how they sold themselves on it.

I’m just happy the way The Rams Organization is run now.

—Right Now I don’t like Hopkins.I could care less where he was drafted. I think Blanton has earned a spot on The Rams roster ?” At least over him. Either way I laugh at all the Johnny Mundt hate.

Bobby Evans - I’m cheering for him & The Rams decision to draft him before David Edwards.

Tutu ? Not questioning at all. Just think still his training camp set back hurt his development.

E. Brown I like,but I think he is The Ram 2021 draft pick that gets cut & put on the practice squad.

Those are just my opinions though.Plus maybe looking back in history that I’m so over with,but might have questioned. I always drink the Kool-Aide though.
Goff last season I think regressed & with Wolford was questioning & wondering what McVay really thought of him.

Still will say AD99 taking a 15 yard penalty really hurt The Rams chance because it cost 6(7) point to put The Rams behind.I also think is better now than last season & is a first ballot HOF player if he continues his dominance.

 

[oldnotdead]

There also is financial realism. 1st round picks cost more and there is no getting around that. Look at all the stars on this team that need to be paid. It's not realistic to think you can pay them all. Case in point, most teams would be willing to open the vault for a CB like Darious Williams. The Rams know they can't. So instead they draft a future phenom to replace him at CB. A player that will give them years of affordable service and be an upgrade at the same time. I'd say that was a good tradeoff and its fiscal reality.

You have to save somewhere and the OL is traditionally where you save. Also, those who are beating the drums for the OL to fail to validate themselves ignore the reality that the OL had improved tremendously between 2019 and 2020. Now with continuity, I expect them to take the next step. Next year they will make changes at both OT positions. But Noteboom who likely will replace Whitworth is a homegrown 3rd round pick. Not as sexy as a first-rounder but who cares as long as he can play like one which he has.

They traded a 5th rounder for a benched center, but he was a player they targeted in his draft but didn't get. Corbett is a second-round player who has shown himself to be a very good OG. They have a UDFA OT prospect in Alaric Jackson who looks like he's going to be a very good OT, probably replacing Havenstein next year. But again a homegrown player. Edwards is a work in progress but played well enough last year to retain his position at LG.

Continuity on the OL is a very real thing. Noteboom has started off and on for the past 3 years and has played well at LT. Allen started the first 9 games in 2019 who in his first starting year was better than average. Those who say he was substandard don't offer substantiation to their claims. Most evaluations by even media-oriented organizations like PFF graded him above average in those games.

The real weakness of the OL was in pass protection. The turnstile in the middle is gone, and the Rams have a QB in Stafford who will get his passes off faster than Goff reducing that number even more. Also, part of the problem was in McVay's play design. Too many of his plays were slow developing. He tried to mitigate it with a bunch of WR screens but they are too easily read. That is why I think McVay will throw to his RBs earlier in games and in quicker patterns. Instead of a WR screen we might see more swing passes to the RBs which are much harder for a defense to see coming. All these types of things will help mitigate the only true weakness in the OL which was their pass protection. A lot of that had to do with poor OL calls by the center. That was something McVay could not ignore and why Blythe is gone.

The Packers have one of the better OLs in the NFL. There isn't one first-round pick among them.

• LT David Bakhtiari (4th round pick by the Packers in 2013)
• LG Elgton Jenkins (2nd round pick by the Packers in 2019)
• C Corey Linsley (5th round pick by the Packers in 2014)
• RG Lucas Patrick (undrafted free agent out of Duke signed by the Packers in 2017)
• RT Billy Turner (3rd round pick by the 2014 Dolphins, signed by Green Bay in the 2019 offseason)

The Packers like the Rams are old school in their approach. They get their OL in rounds 2=5 and are successful. This is another example of what I'm talking about.

 

[wolfdogg]

When tutu was drafted, I was in disbelief but I also believed in les and Sean's research and decisions.

Actually, I said, well I hope they didn't fuck this up, so I do t know how far up the confidence scale that is, however, I have since warmed to the idea and I hope my initial reaction makes Columbus' mistake look like having the toaster at the wrong setting.

No one will know until at least several games in if Allen hurts or helps the effectiveness of the offense, but if its the former, then it won't matter if tutu does well.

I think tutu will be a nice addition and I hope Allen's production will prove that we didn't need to draft a center but we just don't know right now.

 

[snackdaddy]

Ever notice how the really good quarterbacks seem to have good lines? Makes me wonder if maybe the QB can make a line look better.

 

[OldSchool]

Ever notice how the really good quarterbacks seem to have good lines? Makes me wonder if maybe the QB can make a line look better.

It certainly helps when the QB can read the defense and progress through reads faster. Just have to listen to any old OL or coach talk about QBs. I think Mark Schlereth or however you spell it talk on the subject.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

There is a certain kind of fan, that likes to tell other fans the right way to be fans.

 

[XXXIVwin]

I dunno... I'd like to think that almost everyone who posts regularly on this board has a bad case of Ram-itis...

Kinda hard to believe anyone on this board is such a smug stinker that they'd actually root against Tutu to succeed....

Having said that, yeah, IMHO it's still a real head scratcher that the Rams didn't take Humphrey when they had the chance. But I'll still be rootin' for Tutu...

 

[PARAM]

I think sometimes fans will mistake their opinion as fact.

Example:
"It's a fact we needed a C in the draft this year. Hell we needed one last year"

So based on that 'opinion/fact" McVay is an idiot. He had multiple opportunities to draft a C and went another direction each and every time. This idiot, who has won 43 games in 4 years and got his team to a Superbowl?

Truth is McVay said they believed they had their center in house. They would try a number of them and give the job to the best guy. So he's done exactly what he said he would do.

But he's an idiot at worse, making a huge mistake at best. Thank you but I'll trust the guy who turned a losing team around in year one and maintained a level of success for 4 years.

I'm sure there are fans from all walks of life who know better than he does. Electricians, carpenters, executives, bartenders, businessmen and those self employed. It's easy. We needed a center and he has ignored that fact.

And I expect that old "blind loyalist" accusation, except I'm not blind. I've seen clearly what he has done.

 

[Allen2McVay]

There is a certain kind of fan, that likes to tell other fans the right way to be fans.

That's NOT the way to post on a forum.

Let me TELL you HOW to post!

 

[oldnotdead]

Ever notice how the really good quarterbacks seem to have good lines? Makes me wonder if maybe the QB can make a line look better.

Goff got pummelled last year with a league-leading number of sacks, around 53 if I remember correctly. You don't have that many unless you have a center making bad protection calls. This is why Blythe is gone and Corbett is back at OG.

That could have been mitigated somewhat by a QB who can make those adjustments himself which Goff hadn't been coached up to do and was not given enough time to make adjustments. Now with Stafford and a real center who has played center through college and into the pro's who has sat in the center room studying film for all his 3 years as a Ram. Pair him up with a vet QB who will also make his reads and adjustments and absolutely the QB makes a difference.

The coordination between center and QB makes both the QB and the OL look better.

 

[OldSchool]

Goff got pummelled last year with a league-leading number of sacks, around 53 if I remember correctly. You don't have that many unless you have a center making bad protection calls. This is why Blythe is gone and Corbett is back at OG.

That could have been mitigated somewhat by a QB who can make those adjustments himself which Goff hadn't been coached up to do and was not given enough time to make adjustments. Now with Stafford and a real center who has played center through college and into the pro's who has sat in the center room studying film for all his 3 years as a Ram. Pair him up with a vet QB who will also make his reads and adjustments and absolutely the QB makes a difference.

The coordination between center and QB makes both the QB and the OL look better.

Not even close. There were 20 QB's sacked more than Jared. Pressured he might have been up there higher but he absolutely wasn't sacked 53 times. It was 23 in fact.

 

[XXXIVwin]

Goff got pummelled last year with a league-leading number of sacks, around 53 if I remember correctly. You don't have that many unless you have a center making bad protection calls. This is why Blythe is gone and Corbett is back at OG.

20 QBs were sacked more than Goff last year.

Most Sacked Qb In 2020 | StatMuse

Carson Wentz got sacked the most by a quarterback in 2020, with 50 sacks.

www.statmuse.com

 

[AvengerRam]

There is a certain kind of fan, that likes to tell other fans the right way to be fans.

You’re welcome.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

I think sometimes fans will mistake their opinion as fact.

Example:
"It's a fact we needed a C in the draft this year. Hell we needed one last year"

So based on that 'opinion/fact" McVay is an idiot. He had multiple opportunities to draft a C and went another direction each and every time. This idiot, who has won 43 games in 4 years and got his team to a Superbowl?

Truth is McVay said they believed they had their center in house. They would try a number of them and give the job to the best guy. So he's done exactly what he said he would do.

But he's an idiot at worse, making a huge mistake at best. Thank you but I'll trust the guy who turned a losing team around in year one and maintained a level of success for 4 years.

I'm sure there are fans from all walks of life who know better than he does. Electricians, carpenters, executives, bartenders, businessmen and those self employed. It's easy. We needed a center and he has ignored that fact.

And I expect that old "blind loyalist" accusation, except I'm not blind. I've seen clearly what he has done.

Fans can have opinions. It’s part of the experience.

And so far Center appears to be the weakest link on the offensive line……again. I don’t believe fans think that means McVay is an idiot. They just don’t like the way he addresses the position, especially when there seems to be some misevaluation consistently at that one. The fans just want their team to be the best it possibly can.

NFL coaches make mistakes. They are only human. Even the good ones. I recall Pete Carroll calling a pass play at the goal line instead of running the ball, and the game ending in an Int. McVay’s mistake could be that he trusted Kromer’s opinion too much.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

I dunno... I'd like to think that almost everyone who posts regularly on this board has a bad case of Ram-itis...

Kinda hard to believe anyone on this board is such a smug stinker that they'd actually root against Tutu to succeed....

Having said that, yeah, IMHO it's still a real head scratcher that the Rams didn't take Humphrey when they had the chance. But I'll still be rootin' for Tutu...

Of course. If a person is going to be proven wrong, the best way is for a player on their favorite team to do it. That blow to the ego is much easier to accept when it means the team succeeds.

I think it’s irritating for many when they were right about a player being bad from the start. Or a player not chosen being very good. It’s not as much as an I told you so as an expression of frustration at what they felt was an obvious blunder and it’s worse when a regular fan can recognize it.

 

[Riverumbbq]

Won't it blow some minds when Allen & Corbett come out of their corners kicking ass.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

There also is financial realism. 1st round picks cost more and there is no getting around that. Look at all the stars on this team that need to be paid. It's not realistic to think you can pay them all. Case in point, most teams would be willing to open the vault for a CB like Darious Williams. The Rams know they can't. So instead they draft a future phenom to replace him at CB. A player that will give them years of affordable service and be an upgrade at the same time. I'd say that was a good tradeoff and its fiscal reality.

You have to save somewhere and the OL is traditionally where you save. Also, those who are beating the drums for the OL to fail to validate themselves ignore the reality that the OL had improved tremendously between 2019 and 2020. Now with continuity, I expect them to take the next step. Next year they will make changes at both OT positions. But Noteboom who likely will replace Whitworth is a homegrown 3rd round pick. Not as sexy as a first-rounder but who cares as long as he can play like one which he has.

They traded a 5th rounder for a benched center, but he was a player they targeted in his draft but didn't get. Corbett is a second-round player who has shown himself to be a very good OG. They have a UDFA OT prospect in Alaric Jackson who looks like he's going to be a very good OT, probably replacing Havenstein next year. But again a homegrown player. Edwards is a work in progress but played well enough last year to retain his position at LG.

Continuity on the OL is a very real thing. Noteboom has started off and on for the past 3 years and has played well at LT. Allen started the first 9 games in 2019 who in his first starting year was better than average. Those who say he was substandard don't offer substantiation to their claims. Most evaluations by even media-oriented organizations like PFF graded him above average in those games.

The real weakness of the OL was in pass protection. The turnstile in the middle is gone, and the Rams have a QB in Stafford who will get his passes off faster than Goff reducing that number even more. Also, part of the problem was in McVay's play design. Too many of his plays were slow developing. He tried to mitigate it with a bunch of WR screens but they are too easily read. That is why I think McVay will throw to his RBs earlier in games and in quicker patterns. Instead of a WR screen we might see more swing passes to the RBs which are much harder for a defense to see coming. All these types of things will help mitigate the only true weakness in the OL which was their pass protection. A lot of that had to do with poor OL calls by the center. That was something McVay could not ignore and why Blythe is gone.

The Packers have one of the better OLs in the NFL. There isn't one first-round pick among them.

• LT David Bakhtiari (4th round pick by the Packers in 2013)
• LG Elgton Jenkins (2nd round pick by the Packers in 2019)
• C Corey Linsley (5th round pick by the Packers in 2014)
• RG Lucas Patrick (undrafted free agent out of Duke signed by the Packers in 2017)
• RT Billy Turner (3rd round pick by the 2014 Dolphins, signed by Green Bay in the 2019 offseason)

The Packers like the Rams are old school in their approach. They get their OL in rounds 2=5 and are successful. This is another example of what I'm talking about.

Incidentally the Packers took Elgton Jenkins ahead of the Rams. Jenkins was a Rams target. Who knows? If that doesn’t happen maybe the Rams would have had their Guard/Center and we’d all be arguing about some other position. Or none at all.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Won't it blow some minds when Allen & Corbett come out of their corners kicking ass.

Nah. I think most Allen doubters would be happy about it. I don’t think anyone is doubting Corbett btw.