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NJRamsFan

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Who said late round? Mannion was a 3rd, cousins a 3rd, Garoppolo a 2nd.

I get it sounds crazy to want to replace a QB every 5 years. But how many SBs since their rookie deals have Rodgers, Brees, Newton, Wilson, Ryan, Rivers, Palmer, Ben, or pick whoever you want to justify the argument.

Take a look around the league it’s littered with good young QBs. Half the leauge has good starting caliber QBs. It’s not as hard to find QBs as it used to be. Seriously look at them. There are some pretty good ones.
Mannion simply can not be part of your argument but anyway. 2nd-3rd rd is late round as far as qbs go.

Something like 8 teams will have a different opening day qb this season compared to last season. In a league “littered with good young qbs” where “it’s not as hard to find QBs as it used to be” don’t you think that wouldn’t be the case? Why are so many teams without a viable option at qb right now? Look how long it took the rams to find a new Qb. Look point blank period when you find a franchise qb you keep him and it hurts your flexibility going forward. That’s just what it is.

Your argument about winning an additional Super Bowl past their initial rookie deal is kinda ridiculous. Most guys never win one. Or even go to one. How many guys win multiple super bowls in their career period? That’s a pretty specific set of criteria.

Look all I’m saying is yes the super bowl is the overall goal every year I get it. But being in contention (one of the handful of teams capable of realistically winning a Super Bowl) year in and year out is not a failed season. You don’t throw away a contending team in hopes your next qb can step in and do the same job for less money.
 

kurtfaulk

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Not a huge difference for Denver. I agree he was great. That was not my point. 2 SBs and one championship for the greatest?! Is QB really that important? That’s my point

I have to disagree about the Broncos. They were terrible bar some flukey wins by tebow. Manning instantly made them superbowl favourites. The first year they looked likely to go all the way until their db inexplicably let the ravens wr get behind him for a 70 yard td with seconds left in the divisional play-off. Don't confuse his last season with the first 2 he played for the Broncos.

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Ram65

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Find your next QB now. When Goff is up let him walk and start over with his replacement. Seems like the key is having the QB on his rookie deal. McVay is 2 for 2 with QBs now. Play out Goffs deal and move on to the next QB.

Outside of Brady there are no QBs going multiple SBs that are past there rookie deals and like you said Brady has always taken less money. So unless Goff will do a Brady I say let him walk.


I wasn't buying in at first but, the cap hit for QBs is getting out of hand. Here an interesting article showing proof that high QB pay doesn't win SBs.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://ftw.usatoday.com/2018/02/nfl-quarterback-salaries-salary-cap-kirk-cousins-free-agency

NFL teams are paying quarterbacks way too much money and here's the proof
By: Steven Ruiz | February 20, 2018 11:51 am

The takeaway from the Eagles winning a Super Bowl with a journeyman quarterback like Nick Foles should have been clear: You don’t need a great — or even very good — quarterback to win a Lombardi trophy.

But that’s not how these NFL general managers think. They see the success Foles had playing behind the best offensive line in football in one of the league’s most dynamic schemes backed up by a deep, talented defense and instead of saying, let’s build a roster like the Eagles, they think GET ME FOLES…

Adam Schefter

✔@AdamSchefter


Bill Polian said on ESPN’s NFL Live that, if he were the Eagles’ GM, he wouldn’t listen to any offers for Nick Foles unless they started with “two 1’s and two 2’s.”

3:01 PM - Feb 19, 2018

Or they see Case Keenum put up career numbers throwing to the best receiver duo in the league in a system that gives him wide open throw after wide open thrown while also being backed by a deep, talented defense … and now a quarterback nobody wanted a year ago is going to make a lot of money on the open market…




Ian Rapoport

✔@RapSheet


From @NFLGameDay: #Vikings QB Case Keenum is going to make a lot of money this offseason... and a look at what #Vikings WR Adam Thielen is dealing with.

12:11 PM - Jan 21, 2018

Or maybe it’s Kirk Cousins that catches their eye. A quarterback prone to making mental mistakes under pressure who has benefitted from either a great supporting cast or a great scheme (sometimes both) over the last three years. He hits the open market and they start losing their minds…




ProFootballTalk

✔@ProFootballTalk


Jets reportedly are willing to pay "whatever it takes" to get Kirk Cousins https://wp.me/p14QSB-axun

11:51 AM - Feb 19, 2018

Whatever. It. Takes.

For this…



Dov Kleiman

✔@NFL_DovKleiman


In his final game before a major paypday, Washington QB Kirk Cousins has 3 INTs and 0 TD

Last year on Week 17, he had a chance to take his team to the playoffs in a must-win game vs the #Giants and also threw an INT at the end of the game

4:50 PM - Dec 31, 2017

I get it. The NFL is a quarterbacks league. You can’t win without a good one, and you can’t get a good one without paying A LOT of money for him. That’s why good-but-not-great quarterbacks like Matthew Stafford sign for record money and everybody celebrates the deal. That’s why the Redskins get ripped for refusing to give an above average quarterback the biggest contract in NFL history.

Here’s the problem with that sentiment: There is no proof that paying for a quarterback leads to winning. In fact, there is basically no correlation between a quarterback’s compensation and how many games he wins. We did the math.

For the following chart, we picked out every season since 2013 in which a quarterback started at least half of his team’s games. That gave us a sample of 158 individual seasons. We then plotted those seasons based on the quarterback’s winning percentage and cap hit percentage during that season. Here is the result.

screen-shot-2018-02-19-at-7-26-33-pm.jpg


We get a correlation coefficient of .038. If you’ve forgotten everything you learned in that statistics course you took back in college, that’s statistically meaningless. For a point of comparison, there is a stronger correlation (three times stronger, actually) between a team’s preseason winning percentage and their regular season winning percentage. There’s is no correlation between a quarterback’s salary and how many games he wins, so whatever benefit a team gets from paying the quarterback premium is not showing up on the scoreboard.

And this continues to be apparent when looking at the cap hit percentages of every Super Bowl-winning quarterback since the implementation of the salary cap before the 1994 season.

sbcap.png

* 2010 was an uncapped year. The percentage is based on the Packers’ team payroll.

The record for the highest cap hit percentage remains Steve Young’s 13.1% in that first season, when teams were still getting used to building rosters under a budget. Only four quarterbacks have ever won a Super Bowl while accounting for at least 11% of their team’s cap room: Young, Peyton Manning (twice), Tom Brady and Eli Manning.

Obviously, Eli is the anomaly here. Peyton and Brady are two of the greatest quarterbacks ever, and Peyton was dragged to his second ring by a historically great defense. Manning’s Giants weren’t a great team — just a good one that got hot at the right time. Teams aren’t building their rosters to be the next 2011 Giants is all I’m saying.

You would think that teams would look back at this data and adjust accordingly. Nope. In 2017, there were 10 starting quarterbacks taking up more than 11% of their team’s cap space, a list that includes Carson Palmer, Joe Flacco and Ryan Tannehill. There were 20 starters making more than the Super Bowl-winning average of 6.9%…

2017cap.png


Meanwhile, five teams under that average managed to make it to the postseason, including the Super Bowl champs.

NFL teams aren’t learning, either. When I did a similar study after the 2014 season, the average cap hit percentage for starting quarterbacks was 7.5%. It’s now 8% and figures to go up even more next season now that Jimmy Garoppolo has signed a record-breaking deal.

I’m not suggesting that it’s impossible to build a Super Bowl-caliber team around a highly paid quarterback. Teams have done it. It’s just really hard. That quarterback just has to be very, very good and the front office still has to get lucky in the draft and free agency. Aaron Rodgers is the most talented quarterback I’ve ever seen, yet he hasn’t made it back to a Super Bowl since signing his mega deal. Drew Brees is a top-five quarterback all-time in my book, and he hasn’t been close since cracking the $20-million-per-year barrier. Same goes for Russell Wilson.

The argument could be made that no quarterback is worth as much money as these guys are making. Not even a Rodgers or Brees. Certainly not a Keenum or Cousins, but that won’t stop NFL teams from giving them too much money this offseason.



This Reddit thread on the Eagles signing Nick Foles last offseason is hilarious in hindsight
Here’s your yearly reminder to NOT overreact to any move your favorite team makes courtesy of the NFL subreddit. This thread was made after it was reported that the Eagles had inked Nick Foles to a two-year, $11 million deal… And here is the top comment… But MemorableCactus was hardly alone. Just about everyone in the thread, including Eagles fans, ripped the move… This Giants fan celebrated the move with a GIF… Had the Eagles not signed Foles, this Vikings fans may have been celebrating a Super Bowl win this offseason… The internet is a fun place.



**Note-Video at the end of article about Foles and posters on reddit thought the Eagles payed way too much for a backup QB. Would not copy.
 
Last edited:

Ram65

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I've been a Rams fan since 1969. The Rams were powerhouses in the 70's and part of the 80's. After that, we sucked for a long time until the 1999 Rams won the Super Bowl. We win Super bowl 34 and got cheated out of Super bowl 36. After a few more good years, the Rams endured a long winter.

But the way the NFL is these days with the premium prices on quarterbacks, do teams really win with a QB at the "Max" salary? The Cheatriots have won but Brady takes less to help the team. The Sea pigeons won when Russell Wilson was at minimum wage. Same with the Eagles who had Carson Wentz at minimum wage and Foles at back up. It seems that giving your QB a "max" contract is a hindrance to paying the rest of the team.

IMHO, the Rams have 2 seasons to win a Super Bowl before Goff will demand the max salary. At that point, only really great drafts and developing players will keep the Rams on top. While I feel confident about McVay and Snead, the opportunity to take home the Lombardi is now.

I am confident that McVay will build a contender for years to come, but I would feel more reassured with another Trophy in the house before Goff commands a maximum contract.

Thoughts?

The Rams are right in the mix. They are really going for it with the defensive overhaul. It's going to be hard to go past the two year window with Goff, Donald and Gurley getting big second contrats. Unfortunately, the Eagles have a similar window while the Vikings and Saints paid their quarterbacks and had cap space to keep their solid foundations. We have to enjoy the ride as long as we can.
 

tempests

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NFL teams are paying quarterbacks way too much money and here's the proof
By: Steven Ruiz | February 20, 2018 11:51 am

He's got the 1997 and 98 Broncos as under league average in paying their QB. Geez, I wonder why...:rolllaugh:

He's playing the percentages. Only 1 of 32 starting QBs are going to win a SB in a year. So yes, many highly paid ones....and many lower paid ones....are going to be sitting out.
 

kurtfaulk

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NFL teams are paying quarterbacks way too much money and here's the proof
By: Steven Ruiz | February 20, 2018 11:51 am

The takeaway from the Eagles winning a Super Bowl with a journeyman quarterback like Nick Foles should have been clear: You don’t need a great — or even very good — quarterback to win a Lombardi trophy.

But that’s not how these NFL general managers think. They see the success Foles had playing behind the best offensive line in football in one of the league’s most dynamic schemes backed up by a deep, talented defense and instead of saying, let’s build a roster like the Eagles, they think GET ME FOLES…

Adam Schefter

✔@AdamSchefter


Bill Polian said on ESPN’s NFL Live that, if he were the Eagles’ GM, he wouldn’t listen to any offers for Nick Foles unless they started with “two 1’s and two 2’s.”

3:01 PM - Feb 19, 2018

Or they see Case Keenum put up career numbers throwing to the best receiver duo in the league in a system that gives him wide open throw after wide open thrown while also being backed by a deep, talented defense … and now a quarterback nobody wanted a year ago is going to make a lot of money on the open market…




Ian Rapoport

✔@RapSheet


From @NFLGameDay: #Vikings QB Case Keenum is going to make a lot of money this offseason... and a look at what #Vikings WR Adam Thielen is dealing with.

12:11 PM - Jan 21, 2018

Or maybe it’s Kirk Cousins that catches their eye. A quarterback prone to making mental mistakes under pressure who has benefitted from either a great supporting cast or a great scheme (sometimes both) over the last three years. He hits the open market and they start losing their minds…




ProFootballTalk

✔@ProFootballTalk


Jets reportedly are willing to pay "whatever it takes" to get Kirk Cousins https://wp.me/p14QSB-axun

11:51 AM - Feb 19, 2018

Whatever. It. Takes.

For this…



Dov Kleiman

✔@NFL_DovKleiman


In his final game before a major paypday, Washington QB Kirk Cousins has 3 INTs and 0 TD

Last year on Week 17, he had a chance to take his team to the playoffs in a must-win game vs the #Giants and also threw an INT at the end of the game

4:50 PM - Dec 31, 2017

I get it. The NFL is a quarterbacks league. You can’t win without a good one, and you can’t get a good one without paying A LOT of money for him. That’s why good-but-not-great quarterbacks like Matthew Stafford sign for record money and everybody celebrates the deal. That’s why the Redskins get ripped for refusing to give an above average quarterback the biggest contract in NFL history.

Here’s the problem with that sentiment: There is no proof that paying for a quarterback leads to winning. In fact, there is basically no correlation between a quarterback’s compensation and how many games he wins. We did the math.

For the following chart, we picked out every season since 2013 in which a quarterback started at least half of his team’s games. That gave us a sample of 158 individual seasons. We then plotted those seasons based on the quarterback’s winning percentage and cap hit percentage during that season. Here is the result.

screen-shot-2018-02-19-at-7-26-33-pm.jpg


We get a correlation coefficient of .038. If you’ve forgotten everything you learned in that statistics course you took back in college, that’s statistically meaningless. For a point of comparison, there is a stronger correlation (three times stronger, actually) between a team’s preseason winning percentage and their regular season winning percentage. There’s is no correlation between a quarterback’s salary and how many games he wins, so whatever benefit a team gets from paying the quarterback premium is not showing up on the scoreboard.

And this continues to be apparent when looking at the cap hit percentages of every Super Bowl-winning quarterback since the implementation of the salary cap before the 1994 season.

sbcap.png

* 2010 was an uncapped year. The percentage is based on the Packers’ team payroll.

The record for the highest cap hit percentage remains Steve Young’s 13.1% in that first season, when teams were still getting used to building rosters under a budget. Only four quarterbacks have ever won a Super Bowl while accounting for at least 11% of their team’s cap room: Young, Peyton Manning (twice), Tom Brady and Eli Manning.

Obviously, Eli is the anomaly here. Peyton and Brady are two of the greatest quarterbacks ever, and Peyton was dragged to his second ring by a historically great defense. Manning’s Giants weren’t a great team — just a good one that got hot at the right time. Teams aren’t building their rosters to be the next 2011 Giants is all I’m saying.

You would think that teams would look back at this data and adjust accordingly. Nope. In 2017, there were 10 starting quarterbacks taking up more than 11% of their team’s cap space, a list that includes Carson Palmer, Joe Flacco and Ryan Tannehill. There were 20 starters making more than the Super Bowl-winning average of 6.9%…

2017cap.png


Meanwhile, five teams under that average managed to make it to the postseason, including the Super Bowl champs.

NFL teams aren’t learning, either. When I did a similar study after the 2014 season, the average cap hit percentage for starting quarterbacks was 7.5%. It’s now 8% and figures to go up even more next season now that Jimmy Garoppolo has signed a record-breaking deal.

I’m not suggesting that it’s impossible to build a Super Bowl-caliber team around a highly paid quarterback. Teams have done it. It’s just really hard. That quarterback just has to be very, very good and the front office still has to get lucky in the draft and free agency. Aaron Rodgers is the most talented quarterback I’ve ever seen, yet he hasn’t made it back to a Super Bowl since signing his mega deal. Drew Brees is a top-five quarterback all-time in my book, and he hasn’t been close since cracking the $20-million-per-year barrier. Same goes for Russell Wilson.

The argument could be made that no quarterback is worth as much money as these guys are making. Not even a Rodgers or Brees. Certainly not a Keenum or Cousins, but that won’t stop NFL teams from giving them too much money this offseason.



This Reddit thread on the Eagles signing Nick Foles last offseason is hilarious in hindsight
Here’s your yearly reminder to NOT overreact to any move your favorite team makes courtesy of the NFL subreddit. This thread was made after it was reported that the Eagles had inked Nick Foles to a two-year, $11 million deal… And here is the top comment… But MemorableCactus was hardly alone. Just about everyone in the thread, including Eagles fans, ripped the move… This Giants fan celebrated the move with a GIF… Had the Eagles not signed Foles, this Vikings fans may have been celebrating a Super Bowl win this offseason… The internet is a fun place.



**Note-Video at the end of article about Foles and posters on reddit thought the Eagles payed way too much for a backup QB. Would not copy.

that article is a load of shit. took me a few paragraphs to realise it so i didn't bother reading all of it. the simple fact is if you don't have a qb you have no shot. why doesn't this guy do an article on cheap journeymen qbs and find out how many superbowls they've won.

.
 

Steve808

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  • #27
If the "Super Bowl window" truly is open, it should last more than 2 years. If it doesn't, the Rams were just a flash in the pan. They don't have a true foundation and McVay's culture change didn't take.

It's the kind of QB you have and not what you're paying him if you ask me. Peyton Manning went to four Super Bowls but in none of those years was he on his rookie contract. Colts made him the richest player in the league before he had played in one. A lot of people scoffed at the Giants making Eli Manning the highest paid QB, but three years later, he was hoisting the Lombardi again.


Just to clarify, I think the Rams are going to be good for a long run under McVay, but imagine if Goff commands 30+ million a few years from now, it will be more challenging to remain the bully of the NFC West. Good drafting and developing of players is how you do it. Gotta give credit to the Cheatriots even if I dislike them because they let players walk and replace them and still remain on top. I could see McVay doing just that.

But I think the window for a championship is extra wide open right now when Goff and Gurley are on minimum wage. After that, it will come down to good management and not be emotionally attached to good players who command a max salary. But it's been a long time. I'd like to see the "LA" Rams hoist the Lombardi in 2019 or 2020, or both.
 

kurtfaulk

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I hardly call $7m per year minimum wage. We're not talking about wussell Wilson or dak Prescott here.

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tomas

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Ah, yes, open up that window and really breath in that fresh air gentlemen. I love the smell of Superbowl on Sundays.

Amazing how it only took 1 year for Mcvay to tear down the brick fireplace that fisher spent 5 years building over it.


2ee7761d3a576d19b1cc80270b328afc.jpg


fishfinger.gif
 

Steve808

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  • #30
So Ndamukong Suh signs with the Rams. The Super Bowl Wiindow just rolled out the red carpet for the Rams if the defense plays up to expectations.

We still need to shore up the line backing corps and some depth here and there but I haven't gone into a new NFL season with such high hopes in a long time.

Go Rams, let's bring home the Lombardi!