The Rams Are Stuck Playing Catch Up in the Draft/Karraker

[Elmgrovegnome]

So how long does record not matter for you as a measuring stick? If that record is repeated over the next three years do you stick with JF? Is it still conditional on circumstances for 5, 6, 7 + years of losing?
Yes there are hard luck cases and bad stuff could happen the next 3 years same as the last 3, at some point though...no matter how much of a nice guy he is, no matter how much it isn't his fault, it is time to move on.
Using your own example with the lady, you found out she was going through a lot and understood why she was acting that way, but if she was still "getting her life in order" 2 or 3 years later would you have accepted her bad attitude that long instead of just the few months?
I am not saying what that line is, but pretty much everyone has a line...

Sure I have a line, but it is drawn with reason. Look at the circumstances and then figure it out. Having a hard line about everything is unrealistic and would make it tough to go through life, especially with relationships and family. I expect a winning record this year. Maybe it will only be 9 wins and I can accept that but I hope more for 10/11. With the youth on the line and still developing chemistry on offense it is probably unrealistic to think 10/11 wins should be expected this year. I expect them to win the division in 2016 or be in the race up to the end at the least.

I always keep in mind what this team was like when Fisher arrived. There were very few good players and maybe one great player. Think of what most playoff teams consist of. They usually don't have any glaring weaknesses. The Rams were riddled with them and even with the extra picks from the RGIII trade they still had a long ways to go to fill them all. They are getting quality contributors in the draft and UDFA. They filled holes and now are going for quality at the top of the draft which should bring in the real difference makers. It takes time to build a team from scratch.

Along the same lines as wins are all that matters thinking......if Fisher was fired today and Linehan came back and got to 9 wins with the current roster, would it mean that Linehan was a better head coach than Fisher?

 

[drasconis]

Sure I have a line, but it is drawn with reason. Look at the circumstances and then figure it out. Having a hard line about everything is unrealistic and would make it tough to go through life, especially with relationships and family. I expect a winning record this year. Maybe it will only be 9 wins and I can accept that but I hope more for 10/11. With the youth on the line and still developing chemistry on offense it is probably unrealistic to think 10/11 wins should be expected this year. I expect them to win the division in 2016 or be in the race up to the end at the least.

I always keep in mind what this team was like when Fisher arrived. There were very few good players and maybe one great player. Think of what most playoff teams consist of. They usually don't have any glaring weaknesses. The Rams were riddled with them and even with the extra picks from the RGIII trade they still had a long ways to go to fill them all. They are getting quality contributors in the draft and UDFA. They filled holes and now are going for quality at the top of the draft which should bring in the real difference makers. It takes time to build a team from scratch.

Along the same lines as wins are all that matters thinking......if Fisher was fired today and Linehan came back and got to 9 wins with the current roster, would it mean that Linehan was a better head coach than Fisher?

LoL...I do have a hard line on most things in life...but I try to keep it realistic (FYI - I am estranged from part of my family due to not taking their crap...they crossed the line). I think my line on the Rams is same as yours they need to have a winning season this year.

Ultimately in the NFL winning is what matters, but I tend to put my rider that it be legitimate wins...for instance I would have real trouble being a Pats fan or a KY fan currently.

To your question about Linny v JF...well not enough info there. plenty of coaches got better their 2nd time around so won't say he isn't (can't compare full careers at this point), but I would not say he is better based on one season such as that, I would need to see his body of work from then on...that said if Linny came in and won 9 he would get a 2nd year...

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

LoL...I do have a hard line on most things in life...but I try to keep it realistic (FYI - I am estranged from part of my family due to not taking their crap...they crossed the line). I think my line on the Rams is same as yours they need to have a winning season this year.

Ultimately in the NFL winning is what matters, but I tend to put my rider that it be legitimate wins...for instance I would have real trouble being a Pats fan or a KY fan currently.

To your question about Linny v JF...well not enough info there. plenty of coaches got better their 2nd time around so won't say he isn't (can't compare full careers at this point), but I would not say he is better based on one season such as that, I would need to see his body of work from then on...that said if Linny came in and won 9 he would get a 2nd year...

When I started out in adulthood and youth I was more of a hardliner. I found that I had to be the one to change they way I viewed things in order to get along. The further I took it the more things opened up for me. I am actually glad that it took me so long to find a wife because I doubt that I would have been as good of a father as I am now if I had kids in my 20s.

What I was getting at with the coaches is that Linehan walking into a loaded roster looks like a good head coach while Fisher with a bad roster looks like a bad head coach. But that does not make Scott better than Jeff. That is why I hope that Fisher gets his two more years in. He will have put together the team as he wanted it and then can be judged. It really would have been nice if he could have performed the turn around as fast as Seattle did but that was not all on him either. They were neck and neck with Spagnoulo/Devanney and took off with a few shrewd moves and then when they got lucky with Wilson it sealed the deal. Looking back on that teams turnaround it really is remarkable how they did it so fast and affectively. They are the exception and not the rule though.

 

[Alan]

Elmgrovegnome with the truth:
I found that I had to be the one to change they way I viewed things in order to get along. The further I took it the more things opened up for me.

 

[drasconis]

When I started out in adulthood and youth I was more of a hardliner. I found that I had to be the one to change they way I viewed things in order to get along. The further I took it the more things opened up for me. I am actually glad that it took me so long to find a wife because I doubt that I would have been as good of a father as I am now if I had kids in my 20s.

LOL, I actually am becoming more of a hardliner as I get older. When I was younger I took a lot of crud I shouldn't have and as I got older the more I looked at it and said "why am I accepting this?". I also got married later in life (no kids though) and my wife helped me see that love should mean respect. I decided that if those that supposedly loved me couldn't respect me then really why did I allow them in my life (let me be clear I am not talking about minor things - I do not care if uncle Bob tells me "tales" about his fishing trip). But that is me, and I do not expect others to understand my choices, they haven't walked in my shoes and as a society we are conditioned to "forgive" family.

Sorry just realized this was getting way deeper than this thread should LOL.

 

[kurtfaulk]

well since he started above all those players you mentioned last season it may be his talent that keeps him on the team.

.

 

[Zaphod]

well the d is exactly where the rams want it. they looked like they were going for an up tempo offense in 2013 with all their acquisitions but after 4 rounds fisher had seen enough and started bringing it back all the way to what they did in the draft this season, go old school.

.

Man, I really think Fisher and Shottenheimer disagreed on offensive philosophy.

 

[blue4]

You illustrate why I had/probably still have the notion that they actually have no coherent strategic plan. Flying by the seat of their pants is what I see.

Still thinking about it though.

I think they had most of the tools in place for an tempo offense, they just needed a little more seasoning, a little more serious draft attention to the OL, and a QB with a healthy knee. Now that all that's done, we're going back to the other way. We have 4 talented WRs with some experience, 2 TEs who can catch, one of whom is a matchup nightmare down the field, and two explosive RBs. I don't know if i agree that ground and pound is the way to go here. I think we've got the makings of a top 5 defense and a top 10-12 offense. I don't know if handing it off 35 times a game is preferable to an potential explosive offense.

 

[BonifayRam]

"Joyner is behind 3 CBs & 3 Ss going into camp."
Yes you are most likely correct & I will agree with you in your first sentence flv.

"The current top 6 DBs might not end up being the 2015 top 6 DBs"
Once again I will agree with this statement.

"but for now Joyner is in a projected fight with Alexander, Bryant, C.Davis, Magee, Roberson, and anyone else they bring into camp for 3 roster spots".
I can not agree with you on any part of this statement. for one, Maurice Alexander 6-1 225 pounder is strictly a Strong Safety (in the box) type. MA he may end up getting some WSLB'er post in TC, this bares watching. So Joyner will not be in a fight with him.

It should be brought out that there is another first yr Strong Safety who was injured the last two yrs named Christian Bryant who happens to be talented. But Joyner will not be in a roster battle with him either...Bryant will be fighting with Alexander,

Secondly, Corner McGee has been given every opportunity for two seasons (2013 & 2014) to be Fishers Nickle-Back. Sorry to say McGee has shown NO (zero) ability in this position. Chances will be he is inserted back as strictly an outside corner, based on the 2016 UFA status of both Jenkins & Johnson. Fisher has to plan to be without both of JJ & TJ in 2016. McGee is not a UFA until 2017. So Joyner will not be in a heated battle with McGee @ outside corner.

Also, The same can be said about Roberson who is also strictly an outside corner too. It would not surprise me if Roberson beats McGee solidly in TC & pre season. Roberson's main issue is he is a very poor practice player. But shows up big on game day in the heat of the moment. Neither McGee nor Roberson is a threat to Joyner roster spot.

You mention named FS Cody Davis as being in a fight with Joyner...I might see some merit in this thought fly but Davis will enter free agency @ the conclusion of this season where Joyner is here until 2018. Davis might be able to play some Nickle but he looks more like a tweener between SS & FS to me in the NFL. I just do not see much of a fight here with Joyner.

"It might be his Draft status and guaranteed contract money that saves him."
I completely disagree with the above sentence. Several elements will guarantee Joyner's roster spot in 2015. First off, fact is Fisher has 3 of his top 4 safeties no longer under contract in 2016. (see below)
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/2016/st.-louis-rams/safety/
Secondly add that Fisher has 2 of his top 3 corners no longer under contract.(see below)
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/2016/st.-louis-rams/cornerback/

Then finally the only bona fide Nickle on this team just happens to be Fishers best starting CB. So removing EJ from a starting CB post is not going to happen. The real fight in this secondary is which CB will start opposite side of EJ? Trumaine Johnson's (TJ) 2014 season was a mess, injured bad & then fell completely apart @ the end of the season & lost his starting job to Gaines until EJ was injured late. However TJ can & I believe he will rebound. JJ can look all pro one game then come back & lay a rotten egg the next game. Rodney McLeod can also play the Nickel but he is the starting FS.

In conclusion Fisher has only two DB's outside Joyner who can play the Nickle in the NFL. They are Gaines & McLeod however both are solid starters. Fisher will be working hard this season to find good DB's to remain stay here in 2016 not looking to dump a DB like Lamarcus Joyner!

Fisher's 2015 Secondary
CB's
EJ Gaines(starter) 23/2
Janoris Jenkins(starter) 26/4 FA in 2016
Trumaine Johnson 25/4 FA in 2016
Marcus Roberson 22/2 FA in 2017
Brandon McGee 24/3 FA in 2017
SS's
Mark Barron 25/4 FA in 2016
TJ McDonald(starter) 24/3-FA in 2017
M.Alexander 24/2
C. Bryant 23/R FA in 2017
FS's
Rod McLeod(starter)24/4 FA in 2016
Lamarcus Joyner(Nickle)24/2
Cody Davis 25/3 FA in 2016

 

[Alan]

blue4 seeing a bright future:
I think they had most of the tools in place for an tempo offense, they just needed a little more seasoning, a little more serious draft attention to the OL, and a QB with a healthy knee. Now that all that's done, we're going back to the other way.

If this draft turns out to be as good as Snisher thinks it was we are looking good going forward. Big if though.

I totally agree with you about their mid stream change in course. Whatever plan you decide on should be given enough time and resources to succeed. Give up on it midway through the first year? Sounds like something an organization like the Browns or the Lions would do.

Boy, I hope I'm full of it.

However this turns out, I'm looking forward to a dominate year by our improved D. :banana:

 

[FrantikRam]

Safety was arguably the biggest position of need when Fisher arrived. So he filled it.

CB was arguably the 2nd biggest position of weakness - now it's fairly strong.

This writer complains that we have too many CBs and Safeties, but then says we need more CBs to prepare for the future departures of our current players. HUH???

As someone else pointed out, he contradicts himself multiple times.

I think that given the hand they were dealt, Fisher and Snead have done a great job thus far. He wants us to be like the Packers and have players just waiting in the wings to take over - I think Aaron Rodgers makes a difference there.

 

[BonifayRam]

Come on Flv you know me better.... you just gave me a slight opening to get on my rocky slanted soap box again! No you did not Spec-U-Taint on the DB plan but thanks for letting me!

In reference s to what Joyner is mostly..hard to really tell he played every secondary post ever made @ FSU. The NFL.....some say FS some say CB some Nickle...right now its where Gregg wants him....but he may never be a real good @ any of the base defense posts but good @ doing a bit of everything when needed. As we have already seen he has played all over even for us last yr.

We will just have to have a big difference of opinions on that contract dates not figuring in. Thanks for taking time to read my reply.