The Rams Are Stuck Playing Catch Up in the Draft/Karraker

[jjab360]

I'm seriously questioning Karraker's thought process in this article. Odd usage of hindsight and contradicts himself multiple times.

 

[Demand n 1]

And I liked the way they tried to rebuild the offensive line, and got a developmental quarterback in Sean Mannion.

That being said, I’m still waiting to see Jeff Fisher and Les Snead implement a program

Isn't "that being said" a Butt Monkey? Randy K. can cloak his rhetoric how he wishes. Does he account for the huge load of detritus called a roster, inherited by Snisher?
I think the regime has always had a credible "plan/program" from the get go. F/A studs turned duds is always a crap shoot. Teams with intact rosters can account for misses. The Rams couldn't.
Overdrafting a position of need(cb,ss,ol) may not be BPA but it sure as heck gives you a punchers chance to FIX it.
Fix it in three years, not with a bandy legged QB and a used up LOT.
Fix it in 4 years, lets roast a couple birds and put a fork in a gold digger. That would be called implementing a program.

 

[LACHAMP46]

I just read the transcript of an interview with Greg Cosell about the Rams draft and it was very informative.

Link?


I too see a reversal in mid-stream of a plan, basically on offense. But I wanna see how the picks this year do on the field before I come to any conclusions...
Agree with the hindsight is 20/20....I'm gonna go with Snisher knows what they're doing....but a slow start by the defense would kill that vibe. If the offense jumps out flying, all again be in "wait & see mode".

 

[-X-]

Link?

http://www.ramsondemand.com/threads/greg-cosell-talks-rams-draft-executed-plan-extremely-well.37233/

 

[ramsince62]

Respectfully, I thought the Rams plan was known the day Jeff Fisher arrived.

1. Build a dominating D based on a dominating defensive line, stop the run and pressure the opposing QB, have an athletic LB and secondary that can convert all that DL pressure into turnovers.
2. Build on offense based on a power running game and high percentage passes that makes few mistakes, but has at least a few guys that can produce explosive plays.
3. Build based on the draft (the plethora of RGIII picks) rather than free agency.
4. Ride our franchise QB, Sam Bradford, as far as he can take us.

Of course, the Bradford thing was a miss. And while they've had to make do with what they've had over the past few years, deal with setbacks, the plan is still the plan.

Well for me, it's always been about the numbers....so let's review the only ones that matter:

7-8-1
7-9
6-10

You might be right about "the plan"....then again, maybe we aught be more concerned about why it ain't working. Fisher might be confident in his 4th year, but I'm not. I want results and I damn sure want it this year and that's (my) final answer.

 

[kurtfaulk]

the original plan only lasted 4 games. the rbs kept running into a guy on the oline, the oline was abysmal and the wrs were too green to function properly. fisher went with a more run heavy plan with a rb that could make a few yards and the results were instantly more rewarding. then sam went down and stayed down. there is no plan for career backups behind center for 23 games.

until we see the new offense in action there's no point lamenting about it.

.

 

[Memphis Ram]

You might be right about "the plan"....then again, maybe we aught be more concerned about why it ain't working. Fisher might be confident in his 4th year, but I'm not. I want results and I damn sure want it this year and that's (my) final answer.

Pretty easy answer. The QB he was counting on kept getting hurt.

 

[junkman]

Well for me, it's always been about the numbers....so let's review the only ones that matter:

7-8-1
7-9
6-10

You might be right about "the plan"....then again, maybe we aught be more concerned about why it ain't working. Fisher might be confident in his 4th year, but I'm not. I want results and I damn sure want it this year and that's (my) final answer.

Sure, so why hasn't the plan worked? Well:

#1, build a dominating D based on DL, that's worked out well. Check.

#3, build from the draft rather than free agency, yep, pretty good. Other than Jared Cook, not a lot of expensive FAs are playing on the Rams. They overspent on Langford, Wells and JLong to keep the Rams competitive, but when they did not perform , they were replaced by Rams draft picks. Check.

#2 dominating run game has been coming along slowly but surely. They drafted Stacy and upgraded him to Mason. BCunningham and Watts are both keepers. They re-signed Saffold and drafted Robinson as cornerstone players. And there's reason for optimism this year that with Gurley and the new OL that the run game will be an emerging area for the Rams. Grade incomplete.

Which takes us to #4, ride Bradford as far as he can take the Rams. That hasn't worked out well at all. He went from playing 16 games to 7 games to 0 games. His replacement in year 2 Kellen Clemons actually turned out to be better than the replacement in year 3 (Davis / Hill) despite hopes to the contrary. Grade - FAIL!

Any extenuating circumstances?

1 - injured difference makers. In addition to Bradford in year 3, they lost their LT (JLong) for the entire year, not to mention CLong, BQuick... Yes, every team has to overcome injuries, but when your difference makers are injured and replaced with below average replacements, that's hard to overcome.

2 - emergence of NFC West. There's definitely an element of opportunism in having a great record, some of which happens thanks to an easy schedule. The Rams team that lost the division to the Seahawks with a 7-9 record, playing in the division was easy back then. This is not the same NFC West with Seattle in back to back Super Bowls, and Arizona emerging. Thankfully 49ers are on their way down, but AZ is on the way up and Seattle is showing no signs of slowing down. NFC West is the best division in football last two years, that makes it hard for a fledgling team to emerge.

So what's the plan now? Still the same plan, except for #4 we're replacing Bradford with Foles and Mannion. And we're going ALL IN on #2, that we're going to build a MORE dominating run offense behind a big young OL and a stable of dynamic runners led by Gurley and Mason. Will this plan work? Remains to be seen. Depends on whether Gurley heals his ACL and the rookie OL perform as hoped, sooner rather than later. If Gurley busts, they still have Mason and Cunningham and Watts, which while still reason for optimism, won't have the difference making potential as a healthy and dynamic Gurley. The nice thing about this approach, they won't be so dependent on Bradford or any QB to carry the team on his back.

My bottom line is this. There are a ton more reasons to be optimistic about this team than the 2-14 (?) team that Fisher inherited in 2012, even with the loss of Bradford and the emergence of the NFC West.

 

[ramsince62]

Pretty easy answer. The QB he was counting on kept getting hurt.

How about the other 52 players? It's never really that easy, the excuses have become old and tired.

 

[OC--LeftCoast]

How about the other 52 players? It's never really that easy, the excuses have become old and tired.

:jerkoff:

 

[Angry Ram]

How about the other 52 players? It's never really that easy, the excuses have become old and tired.

Using the word "excuses" is also getting old and tired. Shit happens in pro football that isn't always in the coaches control. It's not a magic fix. It's not "excuses". These things really do effect on field results (injuries, penalties, officiating, etc). How come the Cardinals get a pass b/c all their QBs get injured and fizzle out the season, while the Rams haven't had a legit QB since October 2013 don't get that luxury? Why was it so many were saying the 49ers struggled because of injuries to Pat Willis, Navorro Bowman, etc? The Rams had way more, way more injures in that span and I've never seen that mentioned. It's a logic that I'm getting absolutely sick of.

Whatever, people can quote Bill Parcells all they want about you are what your record says, but me I think differently. I look at each game individually and see how they played. If it's bad play, I'll call it as such. If they played a hard fought game but shit happened like a garbage penalty or injury caused the top players to miss the game, I'll still say it's a good team.

 

[Alan]

flv seeing an ever changing plan:
I thought the original plan was to spend 5 top 4 round picks on WRs and throw FA cash at a receiving only TE and pass protection at C & LT.

Maybe we've gone as far overboard on a new run-heavy plan as we did with the original plan.

You illustrate why I had/probably still have the notion that they actually have no coherent strategic plan. Flying by the seat of their pants is what I see.

Still thinking about it though.

 

[blue4]

I see both sides of the you are what your record says you are argument.

On one hand, Fisher's had some adversity. And he inherited a mess.

On the other, that's why we went out of our way to hire him away from the Dolphins. Because he's supposed to be better at this then a rookie HC.

And he's battling past history. How many years can a franchise go with out a winning season before a fan base starts getting tired of reasons why we can't win.

This season, with 3 drafts and his players should provide the true answer.

 

[brokeu91]

I see both sides of the you are what your record says you are argument.

On one hand, Fisher's had some adversity. And he inherited a mess.

On the other, that's why we went out of our way to hire him away from the Dolphins. Because he's supposed to be better at this then a rookie HC.

And he's battling past history. How many years can a franchise go with out a winning season before a fan base starts getting tired of reasons why we can't win.

This season, with 3 drafts and his players should provide the true answer.

I pretty much agree with what you just wrote. It's hard when after three seasons you're not seeing some improvement in their record. This fan base has been through a lot and I think all of us have shown a huge amount of loyalty, but I want to win! I'm tired of all of the possible future will be great statements, I want the future to start now. I'm pretty sure I speak for most Rams fans when I write this

 

[Memphis Ram]

How about the other 52 players? It's never really that easy, the excuses have become old and tired.

It's never really that easy for the other 52 players if the QB they are counting on keeps getting hurt.

These guys don't just fall from trees whenever a team needs one.

 

[BonifayRam]

"That being said, I’m still waiting to see Jeff Fisher and Les Snead implement a program".

This forums members have held discussion many times but it was mostly based on OL as the topic. So I would imagine that many will agree with him...I do.

"this administration seems to scramble to replace departing guys with rookies rather than developed players"

Its true but as he said there was a dismal 53 player roster when Snead arrive so you have to give them a bit of a break on this.

In the 2014 second round, the Rams traded up to take slot corner Lamarcus Joyner. Even though the Rams had a pair of safeties that they liked in Rodney McCleod and Tim McDonald, and had three young corners in Trumaine Johnson, Janoris Jenkins and Brandon McGee, they decided to take Joyner, who barely played in his rookie year.

OK I would like to get deep into the weeds here so you Drive Byers just keep on truckin.....Fisher like Rodney McLeod a bunch....its evident they just gave him a very big pay day, Fisher wants him @ deep safety period! TJ is a a future all pro strong safety. Fisher needed an off the shelf ready starting NICKLE due to Brandon McGee inability to meet Fisher demands for that position. Lamarcus Joyner was & is a Nickle-Back from that point on until injuries took their toll. As far a "barley played" ??? LJ won what is basically a starting post in the Gregg defense even though its not counted as one. When the season began LJ was dealing with a very sore back from TC & pre season HD use. Injuries to CB's Johnson & McGee compounded the heavy action on LJ. in the first regualr season game of the 2014 season LJ was the starting Nickle-Back with a ailing back. Fisher took LJ down to rest him after that game & played McGee in LJ place in the 2nd game so LJ could get healthy. McGee reinjured his foot & LJ started the 3rd game @ Nickle. The back remained an issue but LJ continue to play.

By wk 8, Fisher has already lost his top 3 CB's (Johnson, McGee & then Jenkins to injury). JJ who injured his knee in wk 7, against Seattle & if you recall it looked real bad @ that time. JJ did go on to miss starting the next 3 games. Thus Leaving Fisher with three rookie CB's going into the 8th wk against KC. This is the critical period in the secondary LJ & EJ Gaines were the starting CB's with Roberson coming in as the 3rd corner moving LJ back into the Nickle. So the corners were already down to rookies!

In the KC games starting FS & back up Nickle Rodney McLeod went down real hard with an injury. FS Cody Davis went as starting FS. A few plays later starting FS Cody Davis is slammed knocked out Concussion in one of the vicious Ram head injuries of 2014 season. Rams now are playing with only one safety. Rookie Alexander was in active. The Rams finished the KC game with only 4 active DB's LJ was @ FS, Roberson & Gaines @ CB & McDonald @ SS. Rams could not use any Nickle or dime packages. To make it more of a issue Dunbar had been pressed into covering KC's receivers injured his toe & was taken to the locker room. LJ started the KC as starting CB then Nickle then starting FS!

On Monday 10-27-2014 after the KC game Snead & Fisher were looking seven reported injuries to to the secondary:

#1-Starting FS McLeod-Out/pending MRI on knee
#2-Reserve FS Davis -Out/pending Concussion protocols still in hospital.
#3-Starting CB Jenkins-Out/knee in soft case on crutches
#4-Starting CB Johnson- Out but pending early week reevaluation on 10-29-2014 for first time this season after /knee still rehabbing 3rd* sprain
#5-Reserve CB McGee-Out/Foot IR
#6-Starting Nickle Joyner -limited/ due to hip injury limited
#7-Reserve CB Roberson -limited/due to severe sprain ankle

If you do not believe me which happens here, I thought I better bring some back up:
http://www.turfshowtimes.com/2014/10/30/7131061/rams-49ers-injury-report

here for a second so this sports writer brings up question about the Mark Barron trade.

"To compound the Joyner decision, the Rams traded for Tampa’s Mark Barron during the season.Hindsight being 20-20, would the Rams have been better off saving the fifth round pick they dealt moving up three spots, and getting another player they liked who could step up in 2015?"

OK put yourself in Snead's place here on 10-27-2014...if you had the above with only 1 healthy CB & 1 healthy safety & one safety Alexander who had yet to see the field in the secondary starring back at you. So what Snead did was On 10-28-2014 he acquired SS Mark Barron. Looks pretty smart to me.

Now back to finish the LJ thoughts here...LJ has battle thru TC & pre season a sore back now he has a injured hip issue. But LJ continues to play through the pain. Wk 10 he suffers a groin injury that finally takes him out & out of play...Fisher sets LJ for the next 5 wks to get over his mutiple injuries & LJ takes back up his Nickle-back post in wk 16 & finishes the season with having started 10 games where LJ saw heavy duty action far from the "barely played in his rookie year" comment by Randy Karraker. Plus this should shut down the rumors that Fisher benched LJ due to poor play.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Well for me, it's always been about the numbers....so let's review the only ones that matter:

7-8-1
7-9
6-10

You might be right about "the plan"....then again, maybe we aught be more concerned about why it ain't working. Fisher might be confident in his 4th year, but I'm not. I want results and I damn sure want it this year and that's (my) final answer.

I have never prescribed to this line of thinking. There is always more to it.

For instance I had a new job and the one woman that was there was a miserable bitch. I hated her for months. It turned out her husband was cheating on her and after they got divorced and her life was back in order she actually turned out to be a really great person. So all that mattered according to you is that she was a miserable bitch?

How about if I told you I was a millionaire? You might be quite impressed. But what if you didn't know that I robbed a bank to get the money? All that matters is that I am rich right?

 

[drasconis]

I have never prescribed to this line of thinking. There is always more to it.
For instance I had a new job and the one woman that was there was a miserable bitch. I hated her for months. It turned out her husband was cheating on her and after they got divorced and her life was back in order she actually turned out to be a really great person. So all that mattered according to you is that she was a miserable bitch?
How about if I told you I was a millionaire? You might be quite impressed. But what if you didn't know that I robbed a bank to get the money? All that matters is that I am rich right?

So how long does record not matter for you as a measuring stick? If that record is repeated over the next three years do you stick with JF? Is it still conditional on circumstances for 5, 6, 7 + years of losing?
Yes there are hard luck cases and bad stuff could happen the next 3 years same as the last 3, at some point though...no matter how much of a nice guy he is, no matter how much it isn't his fault, it is time to move on.
Using your own example with the lady, you found out she was going through a lot and understood why she was acting that way, but if she was still "getting her life in order" 2 or 3 years later would you have accepted her bad attitude that long instead of just the few months?
I am not saying what that line is, but pretty much everyone has a line...

 

[So Ram]

Well for me, it's always been about the numbers....so let's review the only ones that matter:

7-8-1
7-9
6-10

You might be right about "the plan"....then again, maybe we aught be more concerned about why it ain't working. Fisher might be confident in his 4th year, but I'm not. I want results and I damn sure want it this year and that's (my) final answer.

Fine then why even watch the games & look at the roster.To each his own,just keep rolling the dice & you will hit your numbers.That being said.

The Rams did something last year I really liked.(They over drafted by trading up last 2 years). They went all in on DB's & if they stopped they have no EJ Gaines.So yes numbers matter.My take from Snead is they actually put numbers on players.They seem to use research on there picks.They picked up Barron & have Alexander.That is like a Sean Taylor fit for Greg Williams.

--This year my EJ Gaines is the kid from Louisville.I think he has the skill set to be a starter from the beginning (1st yr).
You look at the RT from Wisconsin & Iowa,those guys just have fun playing snap to whistle mauling people.They fly around in piles just to hit someone.In the 4th Qrt that is going to wear on teams.
This kid from Fresno St.ran under 5.00 in 40 at 6'5 320.That is 1st rd combine number things. So The Rams did same thing as last year to fix the DB position.It is a number thing(value)& your not going to get a Scott Wells or a Jake Long.Meaning spending $30 million for a starting Offensive Lineman.You also add competition the old fashion way.You earn(not by salary) it on the field.

Going by numbers.I give Senad & Fisher so much credit this year.I knew what they were doing(blue print last year DB),but I was not sure how it was going to look.
1.Fisher took Tre Mason last year because of value.They didn't reach.Same with Zach Stacy year before. --This year Todd Gurley was there & there top player.They didn't care about other teams value chart.Got there guy.

2. The plan was draft OT's 3-5 range.Just going by numbers & scouting.They got 3 of the 4 OT's they liked in that range(draft eat bust Clemmings).Ram fans have complained for years about the Offensive Line.I remember The Tucker's for dept.
3.WHat ?? No body is talking about the steal of the draft.This A-hole talks so much crap in his article.The Rams maybe over drafted,but did not trade up.Stuck to there board.Knew the value of the players & didn't want to lose them.What they did do was FINALLY draft that QB of future type Ram fans have been crying about for years.They worked out the top 6 QB's and drafted Scott Mannion Oregon St.
Reason why it was the steal of the draft.They got him for free & still got the players they wanted on there board.
--I can't say for sure they were right in there draft picks,but they did stick to there plan.
I give The Rams an A++ just for those reasons.This team is young & ascending.They have a base that is set to last.
---I want to add finally there FA pick ups & players they resigned were fantastic.This Nick Foles (salary) is just a cool cat.He has that size & character that is so cool to see.He doesn't sulk on the sideline.He is just a true baller that guys will play for.