The official Aaron Donald holdout thread - #Questfor100

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OldSchool

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That's the leverage he has. If the Rams had wanted to do it the right way, they would have resolved this by now. The Rams were the one who didn't take care of this BEFORE training camp. They've had since March to get a deal done.
The leverage he has is flimsy as all hell. He's under contract with the Rams for the next 2 years and they can franchise him for 3 years after that and still save money. Yes if they franchise him for 3 years the next 5 years would cost him less than if they signed him to a contract right now. Signing him now saves them money in the long run as he'll sign for less money. Signing him later saves them money now as he'll cost less on this contract than if they sign his second contract in a year or two as contracts are always going up. His biggest leverage is by costing himself money by holding out and not playing games.
 

-X-

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The leverage he has is flimsy as all hell. He's under contract with the Rams for the next 2 years and they can franchise him for 3 years after that and still save money. Yes if they franchise him for 3 years the next 5 years would cost him less than if they signed him to a contract right now. Signing him now saves them money in the long run as he'll sign for less money. Signing him later saves them money now as he'll cost less on this contract than if they sign his second contract in a year or two as contracts are always going up. His biggest leverage is by costing himself money by holding out and not playing games.
Don't forget the fines that are accruing.
By the end of the week he'll owe $1.52M in fines for not showing.
His base this year is $1.8M.
 

12intheBox

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I don't like the rules. I DO watch a lot of college football. And minor league baseball.

I look at it this way .... Let's say the players and the owner had a falling out and two leagues were created. In one league - Aaron Rogers, Antonio Brown, and the rest of the NFLPA were playing in unfamiliar uniforms with unfamiliar team names. In the other, the LA Rams played the Seattle Seahawks with replacement players who weren't good enough to make the league otherwise.

Which league would you watch? Or would you watch both? I know what I'd watch.
 

jrry32

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The leverage he has is flimsy as all hell. He's under contract with the Rams for the next 2 years and they can franchise him for 3 years after that and still save money. Yes if they franchise him for 3 years the next 5 years would cost him less than if they signed him to a contract right now. Signing him now saves them money in the long run as he'll sign for less money. Signing him later saves them money now as he'll cost less on this contract than if they sign his second contract in a year or two as contracts are always going up. His biggest leverage is by costing himself money by holding out and not playing games.

And that's why there's no incentive for the Rams to pay him right now unless they need to get him on the field. Which is why Donald is holding out.
 

jrry32

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Don't forget the fines that are accruing.
By the end of the week he'll owe $1.52M in fines for not showing.
His base this year is $1.8M.

Even less incentive for him to play unless he gets a new deal...
 

-X-

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Even less incentive for him to play unless he gets a new deal...
I don't even think any of it's a factor.
If he signs a deal, the Rams will take care of all that.
 

OldSchool

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And that's why there's no incentive for the Rams to pay him right now unless they need to get him on the field. Which is why Donald is holding out.
But they do have incentive to pay him now, the 2nd contract is less if they do it now than in 2 or 3 or 5 years. But them having him under firm control for 5 years gives them time and doesn't force them to sign him now. It's just good business to sign him long term.
 

OldSchool

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Don't forget the fines that are accruing.
By the end of the week he'll owe $1.52M in fines for not showing.
His base this year is $1.8M.
And as FLV pointed out he can only be fined 11/17ths of his yearly salary by the CBA's rules. But is that what he wants? He's holding out to make more money yet the way he's doing it is going to cost him roughly 2/3 of his pay. If he holds out into his first year being franchised that's just costing him money. It's in both he and the teams best interest to sign right now. But they(or one side which we don't know who it is since they're not negotiating in public yet) aren't acting in their best interest.
 

Ramification

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I look at it this way .... Let's say the players and the owner had a falling out and two leagues were created. In one league - Aaron Rogers, Antonio Brown, and the rest of the NFLPA were playing in unfamiliar uniforms with unfamiliar team names. In the other, the LA Rams played the Seattle Seahawks with replacement players who weren't good enough to make the league otherwise.

Which league would you watch? Or would you watch both? I know what I'd watch.

Both. That is consistent with my watching both MLB and MiLB. It started in 1994 when I was pissed about the MLB players' strike, which has similarities to your scenario. The fact is, we are not talking about a large-scale loss of top players; we are talking about AD not playing. His absence will have little affect on my enjoyment of the NFL.
 

Ramification

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And as FLV pointed out he can only be fined 11/17ths of his yearly salary by the CBA's rules. But is that what he wants? He's holding out to make more money yet the way he's doing it is going to cost him roughly 2/3 of his pay. If he holds out into his first year being franchised that's just costing him money. It's in both he and the teams best interest to sign right now. But they(or one side which we don't know who it is since they're not negotiating in public yet) aren't acting in their best interest.

It has to be the Rams taking the harder line. They have to if they don't want the holdout floodgates to open. Never negotiate with ransom demanders.
 

12intheBox

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Both. That is consistent with my watching both MLB and MiLB. It started in 1994 when I was ticked about the MLB players' strike, which has similarities to your scenario. The fact is, we are not talking about a large-scale loss of top players; we are talking about AD not playing. His absence will have little affect on my enjoyment of the NFL.

With you on that last point - drop the 50 best players and it's still the NFL. Drop the 1500 best players - and it's the XFL.

I don't have a problem with players listening to their agents and I don't have a problem with agents giving effective advise. The reason players hold out is because it works. It's as simple as that.
 

OldSchool

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It has to be the Rams taking the harder line. They have to if they don't want the holdout floodgates to open. Never negotiate with ransom demanders.
Hard to tell, the rumors could be true and AD's agent wants an opt out clause in which case I hope they never sign that deal and just franchise him for a couple years.
 

Ramification

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With you on that last point - drop the 50 best players and it's still the NFL. Drop the 1500 best players - and it's the XFL.

I don't have a problem with players listening to their agents and I don't have a problem with agents giving effective advise. The reason players hold out is because it works. It's as simple as that.

And that's why I think the Rams are (and, in my opinion, should be) refusing to cave. Refusing to negotiate with hostage-takers eventually diminishes hostage-taking.
 

Riverumbbq

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Rams have the option to fire Donald too. They just aren't willing to do that because he's too valuable to them. That's why he can do what he's doing.

They Rams also have the option to do nothing, letting the terms of the current contract play out. Even if Donald only wants to play enough games per season to count towards his NFL eligibility for a full season of service, this is acceptable for me as he would still be a huge bargain. As I've mentioned before, if Donald only wants to play 6 or 8 games (whatever the minimum requirement happens to be), he'll only be paid for those few games, then next year he can decide whether he's willing to play under his 5'th year option for a full season or another partial year while sacrificing 1/2 or more of his regular salary again. After which, the Rams can then franchise tag him and likely still save money over what is the amount of a newly negotiated contract. I don't believe i'd be wrong to assume that Donald is looking to beat Suh's $114.mil over 7 years contract terms, along with a much higher guaranteed amount. If the Rams just kept the current terms for this contract and 'tagged' Donald' once in 2019, his cost to the team is probably somewhere under $28. mil for the next 3 years. Even better, he could be 'tagged' a second time in 2020 and the Rams could then either trade him for 2 first round picks if he continues to play as expected, or play him for one final season.
That the Rams have even offered a reportedly substantial new contract is a sign of their willingness to negotiate, although without the knowledge of the terms of these offers it's difficult to judge what may or may not be deemed fair from a fan standpoint. What we do know is that a player with two years remaining on his contract has been unwilling to work-out with his team-mates, learn the new specifics of his playbook, and show any respect towards his new coaches philosophy of 'we, not me', or his fellow players, ... so rather than re-negotiate in good faith, he has chosen to hold out. This is a pretty one-sided method of negotiation, which is his right, but should our team choose to hold him accountable for the contract he signed in good faith, many will rightfully support our team over a single player eating 15% of our CAP payroll when there are 52 other players who are trying to build a winning organization. jmo.
 

LesBaker

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We not me. Every game he misses the less and less I'll miss him, even if we struggle.

I think a lot of people feel that way but I don't think he will miss any games.

The players are gladiators competing for our entertainment. They deserve to get paid what they're worth. They're the ones putting everything on the line.

What if they want to get paid MORE than what they are worth. We don't know what the negotiations have been like and the offer or demand on each side.

Well like the real world says if you don't like the conditions your in go find another job. Without the owners there is no league and blaming owners and fans for sacrificing their health is their own doing no one is forcing them to do it.

Normally yes, but this is high dollar pay per year and short careers. And he isn't able to go to another team/job, he's under contract.


There is nothing special these owners bring to the table. If they all died today - the league would go on fine / they are all completely replaceable in every way. Even the stadiums (which they very rarely build on their own) are able to be rented out in alternative venues.

You're wrong, they would be replaced just like owners of teams on every sport get replaced. Think about how many NFL teams have had several owners over the years. Even our Rams.

Someone rich enough and greedy enough will always come along.

What price would you put on being able to play with and hold your kids/grandkids in your 40s/50s? What price would you put on being able to remember who and where you are in your 40s/50s? What price would you put on not suffering from depression in your 30s/40s/50s?

jrry each player who signs a contract for whatever amount puts THEIR price on that. And come on most players don't have issues holding kids and remembering who they are.

You sound like an atto........nevermind LOL.

If he's playing right now, the Rams have no reason to pay him. At the end of the day, he's earned a big deal.

They have already said they know he has outplayed the contract and they want to pay him. Playing or not playing probably doesn't really make a difference other than to voice displeasure on AD part.

He's under contract with the Rams for the next 2 years and they can franchise him for 3 years after that and still save money. Yes if they franchise him for 3 years the next 5 years would cost him less than if they signed him to a contract right now.

But if they are franchising him that means they WANT him on the roster, which means it makes more sense to get him under contract. Doing that now saves them money versus doing it two years from now when the cap is higher and deals are larger.

Hard to tell, the rumors could be true and AD's agent wants an opt out clause in which case I hope they never sign that deal and just franchise him for a couple years.

If that's true then the Rams would be wise to trade him because that is a 100% indicator he is going to leave because he wants to hit the market. Better to have some draft capital then AD for two years.
 

jrry32

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What if they want to get paid MORE than what they are worth. We don't know what the negotiations have been like and the offer or demand on each side.

Then, we wait him out until he comes back to reality. But I still am not going to lose respect for him.

jrry each player who signs a contract for whatever amount puts THEIR price on that. And come on most players don't have issues holding kids and remembering who they are.

You sound like an atto........nevermind LOL.

That's not true for rookies.

As for what most players go through, we don't know. They're only starting to study that. But it's hard to ignore what former players are saying:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2016/02/04/joe-montana-pain-physical-ailment/79852754/
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...veals-memory-loss-caused-football-career.html
https://www.si.com/mmqb/2016/08/23/nfl-ben-utecht-book-counting-days-while-my-mind-slips-away

That's just a few of the many.

They have already said they know he has outplayed the contract and they want to pay him. Playing or not playing probably doesn't really make a difference other than to voice displeasure on AD part.

That's simply not true. Not playing gives Donald the leverage in the negotiations. The Rams are not under the gun to extend him if he's on the field.
 

LesBaker

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That's simply not true. Not playing gives Donald the leverage in the negotiations. The Rams are not under the gun to extend him if he's on the field.

On or off the field they aren't under the gun. Donald has way more to lose here than the Rams do, it's not even close.
 

jrry32

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On or off the field they aren't under the gun. Donald has way more to lose here than the Rams do, it's not even close.

They are under the gun if they want to win. Look at how dismal our pass rush has been in the preseason. Getting Quinn in the game will help, but Donald is the most important piece to our defense. You better bet the Rams are sweating with how close it is to Week 1.
 

RamBall

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What price would you put on being able to remember who and where you are in your 40s/50s?

I blame it on the 80's and the 13 yrs that followed. But if I could get back all that wasted money I would surely pay it all to remember where I am and why I am there.
 

LesBaker

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They are under the gun if they want to win. Look at how dismal our pass rush has been in the preseason. Getting Quinn in the game will help, but Donald is the most important piece to our defense. You better bet the Rams are sweating with how close it is to Week 1.

Look man I want to see him back on the field too, but he has ZERO leverage and is going about this the wrong way. If he wanted to skip pre season that's one thing but that's over now. If he stays out then he is only hurting himself.

The Rams aren't sweating anything, this is a game of chicken and Donald can't win it.