Tavon May Not Play This Week.

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thirteen28

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Wow. A whole week without a jet sweep, or is Cooper going to do that as well.

It's not like Bora has a clue about how to integrate Tavon into the running game. It's like the early work by Cignetti last year in that respect (one of the few things he did good) never happened, at least in Boras's mind.
 

DaveFan'51

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Will it even matter? It's not like we are even using him properly. This offense is beyond hopeless.
Hopeless!?!:thinking: I can't agree! :shocking:Look at Goff Start #1 and Goff Start #2 Definitely an improvement! (y)Not Hopeless! :D
Our "D" failed us in last weeks game!:(
 

Rams43

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Don't get the Tavon bashing. No he's not gonna be the 1000+ yard receiver and we need to stop putting that expectation on him. He's a multi-offensive weapon and you have to count all facets of his game to determine his worth.

Here's a post from a respected member on another board by the handle of LMU93, Angry Ram.

"The Rams team passer rating for the year is 77.9. Exclude all passes to Tavon Austin and it goes up to 84.0.

That's not what you're looking for.... Looking forward to seeing you Pharoh Cooper get some work Sunday..."

That's a helluva indictment of Tavon, IMO.

As a PR this year? I think I would prefer Cooper there as well since he makes better decisions and tends to run more North and South rather than Tavon's sideways BS.

As a RB this year? Tavon isn't impressing there, either, TBH.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/15786/tavon-austin

I think Tavon is living on a reputation, rather than actual results. Most overrated and now overpaid Ram, I believe.

There... I said it.
 

Angry Ram

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Here's a post from a respected member on another board by the handle of LMU93, Angry Ram.

"The Rams team passer rating for the year is 77.9. Exclude all passes to Tavon Austin and it goes up to 84.0.

That's not what you're looking for.... Looking forward to seeing you Pharoh Cooper get some work Sunday..."

That's a helluva indictment of Tavon, IMO.

As a PR this year? I think I would prefer Cooper there as well since he makes better decisions and tends to run more North and South rather than Tavon's sideways BS.

As a RB this year? Tavon isn't impressing there, either, TBH.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/15786/tavon-austin

I think Tavon is living on a reputation, rather than actual results. Most overrated and now overpaid Ram, I believe.

There... I said it.

68325816.jpg
 

HitStick

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Don't forget, Cooper and Goff worked together a ton when Goff was still #2. They already have a feel for each other.
 

DthOn2Legs

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Don't get the Tavon bashing. No he's not gonna be the 1000+ yard receiver and we need to stop putting that expectation on him. He's a multi-offensive weapon and you have to count all facets of his game to determine his worth.
492 total yards. 58 players have more receiving yards than he has total yards. Yep, that's a WEAPON all right.
 

WestCoastRam

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Yeah, count me as one of the excited ones to see what the offense looks like if they're not trying to force plays to Tavon... though it really has seemed like they have already started to get away from that.
 

thirteen28

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Here's a post from a respected member on another board by the handle of LMU93, Angry Ram.

"The Rams team passer rating for the year is 77.9. Exclude all passes to Tavon Austin and it goes up to 84.0.

That's not what you're looking for.... Looking forward to seeing you Pharoh Cooper get some work Sunday..."

That's a helluva indictment of Tavon, IMO.

As a PR this year? I think I would prefer Cooper there as well since he makes better decisions and tends to run more North and South rather than Tavon's sideways BS.

As a RB this year? Tavon isn't impressing there, either, TBH.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/15786/tavon-austin

I think Tavon is living on a reputation, rather than actual results. Most overrated and now overpaid Ram, I believe.

There... I said it.

You don't suppose part of that disparity might have something to do with a QB who couldn't get him the ball and in general wasn't the most accurate (hence, better accuracy with bigger receivers that have a larger catch radius)?

How many of the QB's that Tavon has played with could have made the TD throw that Goff made last week? Maybe one other, Bradford, who got less than 7 full games with Austin, when Austin was a rookie.

In short, I think it's more of an indictment of the QB he was playing with this year and the coaching of the offense. In the right offense with a good coach and good QB, Tavon is a weapon in the passing game. And he could be a weapon in the running game as well, but as I noted earlier, Boras has apparently forgotten what the Rams did with Tavon in the running game last year.
 

Ajb44

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End a rounds were incredible effective last year and were the main reason Gurley Sprung so many big ones. What happened?? Why go away from that
 

jrry32

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Here's a post from a respected member on another board by the handle of LMU93, Angry Ram.

"The Rams team passer rating for the year is 77.9. Exclude all passes to Tavon Austin and it goes up to 84.0.

That's not what you're looking for.... Looking forward to seeing you Pharoh Cooper get some work Sunday..."

That's a helluva indictment of Tavon, IMO.

Or is it an indictment of the QB who liked to throw 50/50 balls to a 5'9" WR?

Tavon takes blames in the bad play this year, but Case Keenum was always a horrible fit for Tavon. His bad accuracy cost Tavon a number of catches this year. And Case cost the team with stupid decisions to force balls to a blanketed Austin.

Tavon takes some blame in also costing the team with drops and some bad routes. But he also does a lot of good things that don't go down on the stat-sheet.

As a PR this year? I think I would prefer Cooper there as well since he makes better decisions and tends to run more North and South rather than Tavon's sideways BS.

As a person who watched Cooper return punts in college, I don't think you know what you're talking about. Pharoh is a safe option (as safe as a rookie can be). Based on his play in college, he won't muff punts left and right. But he's not anywhere close to Tavon as a returnman.

As far as Tavon's "sideways BS" goes, it's a big part of what makes him such a feared returnman.

Tavon's one of the top PRs in football. Feel free to look for yourself:
http://pfref.com/tiny/8yxNq

Criticizing him as an offensive player is defensible. Criticizing him as a PR isn't. It makes it seem like you have an agenda to prove here.
 
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Merlin

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"The Rams team passer rating for the year is 77.9. Exclude all passes to Tavon Austin and it goes up to 84.0.

As I've said more than once the problem is they FORCE the ball to Tavon. They designed many things around getting him the ball, but it only works on the short BS. Having an accurate QB now is going to help, but will it help enough? We don't know that.

I get that they paid him and want to feature him. But they put the cart before the horse. IMO they need to let Goff progress through his reads without Tavon being an instant waste of .5 seconds on so many plays because they have him first read. Mix it up and let the kid run through his reads with a nice mix of short and long routes and the big plays to a guy like Tavon will come. He's a one or two plays a game guy where he can take the F over. He's not a 10+ catch a game, force the ball to him guy.
 

Rams43

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Or is it an indictment of the QB who liked to throw 50/50 balls to a 5'9" WR?

Tavon takes blames in the bad play this year, but Case Keenum was always a horrible fit for Tavon. His bad accuracy cost Tavon a number of catches this year. And Case cost the team with stupid decisions to force balls to a blanketed Austin.

Tavon takes some blame in also costing the team with drops and some bad routes. But he also does a lot of good things that don't go down on the stat-sheet.



As a person who watched Cooper return punts in college, I don't think you know what you're talking about. Pharoh is a safe option (as safe as a rookie can be). Based on his play in college, he won't muff punts left and right. But he's not anywhere close to Tavon as a returnman.

As far as Tavon's "sideways BS" goes, it's a big part of what makes him such a feared returnman.

Tavon's one of the top PRs in football. Feel free to look for yourself:
http://pfref.com/tiny/8yxNq

Criticizing him as an offensive player is defensible. Criticizing him as a PR isn't. It makes it seem like you have an agenda to prove here.

We have different takes on several things, jrry32.

1) First of all the same QB's threw to the other WR's, too. Yet numbers declined when Tavon took snaps but rose when he didn't, per LMU93. a couple of inconvenient facts for Tavon supporters. Sooooo...

2) As to Tavon's height, how is that the fault of either Keenum or Goff? Especially when they're ordered to force feed him the ball?

3) Here are the 2016 PR numbers http://www.footballdb.com/stats/stats.html?mode=PR

NOT career, mind you, just for this season.

You notice that Tavon had second most yardage, but kinda ignore that he had most returns. He is actually 14th in ave return yardage. Other things don't show up in these type of stats, too, such as taking a fair catch inside the 5 yard line.

Add it all up and we have a combo of mediocre WR, middle of the pack return average, and a gadget player as a RB with modest results.

Hardly a $42 million extension worthy player. So I stand by my earlier opinion. Most overrated and overpaid Ram player. Makes Fisher look like a laughingstock.
 

jap

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You don't suppose part of that disparity might have something to do with a QB who couldn't get him the ball and in general wasn't the most accurate (hence, better accuracy with bigger receivers that have a larger catch radius)?

How many of the QB's that Tavon has played with could have made the TD throw that Goff made last week? Maybe one other, Bradford, who got less than 7 full games with Austin, when Austin was a rookie.

In short, I think it's more of an indictment of the QB he was playing with this year and the coaching of the offense. In the right offense with a good coach and good QB, Tavon is a weapon in the passing game. And he could be a weapon in the running game as well, but as I noted earlier, Boras has apparently forgotten what the Rams did with Tavon in the running game last year.

That's the very thing I always point out in Tavon's case---a tiny guy with a relatively tiny catching radius requires an accurate QB with strength, touch, and vision. Until the Man with the Golden Arm came along, only Sam the ex-Ram had those special attributes . . . and even he wasn't all that great with respect to touch.
 

jrry32

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We have different takes on several things, jrry32.

1) First of all the same QB's threw to the other WR's, too. Yet numbers declined when Tavon took snaps but rose when he didn't, per LMU93. a couple of inconvenient facts for Tavon supporters. Sooooo...

You already made this point. I responded to it. I await your response to my points. Numbers exist so that we can interpret them. Here are more numbers:
Past WR Rating leaders:
2007: Jabar Gaffney (NE) 143.6
2008: Kevin Walter (HST) 131.6
2009: Robert Meachem (NO) 152.7
2010: Austin Collie (IND) 143.4
2011: Jordy Nelson (GB) 150.2
2012: Danario Alexander (SD) 134.1
2013: Kenny Stills (NO) 139.3

Source: Pro Football Focus

Without context, numbers don't tell us much. It's our job to interpret them and add context so that we get their full meaning.

2) As to Tavon's height, how is that the fault of either Keenum or Goff? Especially when they're ordered to force feed him the ball?

Strawman argument. This doesn't respond to my point at all. My point was that you don't throw 50/50 balls to a 5'9" WR (unless his name is Steve Smith), especially not when he's double-covered. Jared Goff understands that. Note that his TD to Austin last week wasn't a jump ball.

3) Here are the 2016 PR numbers http://www.footballdb.com/stats/stats.html?mode=PR

NOT career, mind you, just for this season.

You notice that Tavon had second most yardage, but kinda ignore that he had most returns. He is actually 14th in ave return yardage. Other things don't show up in these type of stats, too, such as taking a fair catch inside the 5 yard line.

Actually, he's 12th in yards per punt return. And that's despite Austin not taking one to the house, which is still a possibility at this point, considering his track record.

Add it all up and we have a combo of mediocre WR, middle of the pack return average, and a gadget player as a RB with modest results.

Gotta laugh at this. Austin's career numbers posted above show that he's one of the best in the NFL. Yet, you choose to ignore those for 1 season. You're agenda posting again.

For example, if you looked at one season of Larry Fitzgerald's career (2014), you could conclude that he's an average #2 WR. However, looking at the entirety of his career, you would conclude that he's a Hall of Fame caliber WR. Thus, I think people would rightfully say that you have an agenda if you chose to judge Fitzgerald on 2014 alone.

As for him being a mediocre WR and a gadget player at HB, these are accurate descriptions of Austin to this point in his career. All we can do is hope he improves.

Hardly a $42 million extension worthy player. So I stand by my earlier opinion. Most overrated and overpaid Ram player. Makes Fisher look like a laughingstock.

Definitely not a $42 million extension-worthy player. Then again, that number isn't really reflective of what Austin's extension actually is. If you look at Austin's contract, it was actually a 2 year $22.7 million extension with 3 years of team options between $8 million and $9.5 million. That also doesn't look so good. But considering he was going to make $16.2 million over those 2 years anyways, it's not nearly as bad as it seems.

Basically, Austin got his fifth year option guaranteed + a $6.5 million raise in his extension. The Rams got 3 years of team options for Austin between $8 million and $9.5 million. Not an amazing deal but not very risky either. Rams can cut Austin with no dead money any time after the 2017 season ends.
 

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Tavon and Quinn inactive....
 

Rams43

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You already made this point. I responded to it. I await your response to my points. Numbers exist so that we can interpret them. Here are more numbers:
Past WR Rating leaders:
2007: Jabar Gaffney (NE) 143.6
2008: Kevin Walter (HST) 131.6
2009: Robert Meachem (NO) 152.7
2010: Austin Collie (IND) 143.4
2011: Jordy Nelson (GB) 150.2
2012: Danario Alexander (SD) 134.1
2013: Kenny Stills (NO) 139.3

Source: Pro Football Focus

Without context, numbers don't tell us much. It's our job to interpret them and add context so that we get their full meaning.



Strawman argument. This doesn't respond to my point at all. My point was that you don't throw 50/50 balls to a 5'9" WR (unless his name is Steve Smith), especially not when he's double-covered. Jared Goff understands that. Note that his TD to Austin last week wasn't a jump ball.



Actually, he's 12th in yards per punt return. And that's despite Austin not taking one to the house, which is still a possibility at this point, considering his track record.



Gotta laugh at this. Austin's career numbers posted above show that he's one of the best in the NFL. Yet, you choose to ignore those for 1 season. You're agenda posting again.

For example, if you looked at one season of Larry Fitzgerald's career (2014), you could conclude that he's an average #2 WR. However, looking at the entirety of his career, you would conclude that he's a Hall of Fame caliber WR. Thus, I think people would rightfully say that you have an agenda if you chose to judge Fitzgerald on 2014 alone.

As for him being a mediocre WR and a gadget player at HB, these are accurate descriptions of Austin to this point in his career. All we can do is hope he improves.



Definitely not a $42 million extension-worthy player. Then again, that number isn't really reflective of what Austin's extension actually is. If you look at Austin's contract, it was actually a 2 year $22.7 million extension with 3 years of team options between $8 million and $9.5 million. That also doesn't look so good. But considering he was going to make $16.2 million over those 2 years anyways, it's not nearly as bad as it seems.

Basically, Austin got his fifth year option guaranteed + a $6.5 million raise in his extension. The Rams got 3 years of team options for Austin between $8 million and $9.5 million. Not an amazing deal but not very risky either. Rams can cut Austin with no dead money any time after the 2017 season ends.

Like I said, jrry32, we just see Tavon differently.

What am I gonna believe?

Your above tortured defense of Tavon?

Or my lyin' eyes as I watch the games?

Think I'm gonna trust my own eyes, thank you very much.