Tavon Austin IS NOT a First Round Player

[max]

I just can't see Austin going in the top 15. I mean, I can see somebody taking him, but lots of teams at the top do stupid things, that's why they're drafting there year after year. I just think that's crazy for a 5'8", 174 lb guy. He has a very thin lower body, that's probably why his vertical was bad at the Combine. Teams have got to wonder how long they will have this player. I'd rather have Warmack or Cooper, you plug them in and you've got a Pro Bowl OG for 12 years. That's my preference, anyway. I'm kind of warming up to Hunter in a trade down with the 22nd pick.

 

[Ram_Fan]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3_UNFZHSQU[/youtube]

After watching that video. I like him even more....I don't know, but having a guy that has a good chance to take it to the house every time when he touches the ball is exciting. What's interesting is that he's Never missed a college game. He would seriously give our return game a big boost. We have missed that since Horn, and Hakim left.

My philosophy is that you can't hurt something if you can't catch up to them.

 

[DR RAM]

I understand your point, and you are not the only one who shares it, but Austin will be a first round player, that is a lock. The question is will he be worthy of a first round pick? This has been debated to death, and nothing new will be unveiled here by all of our collective genius.

I don't know what will happen with him, but my opinion is that for his size he may be the exception, and not the rule.

BTW his hand size is pretty large for a player his size, so I wouldn't use that as a negative, especially considering his lack of dropped balls over his career.

 

[ScotsRam]

I agree with the OP. 2nd round? Yeah. 16 overall? Not sold. Not saying he won't be a good player, I just think he's overrated.

 

[Rambitious1]

Here we are two weeks before the draft and Rams Fans and the St.Louis Media have made it clear who they have the most arousal for. West Virginia WR Tavon Austin.

But let me tell you this and you all can archive it and come back in a few years and say "Playmaker told us so" Tavon Austin is not worth a first round pick.

#1. How many 5'8 WR's do you know of that are starting in the NFL? Or even one of the top 3 WR's on a team?

#2. Other than his 40 time, the rest of his measurables are weak.
30 Inch Arms and 9 1/8 hands for a 5'8 WR
A 32 Inch Vertical......for a 5'8 WR

His 32 inch vertical was bad. How bad? Only 4 other WR's at the Scouting Combine had less than a 32 inch vertical.

His 30.08 inch arms were the second shortest of all the WR's at the Scouting Combine.

#3. Tavon Austin will never make a living outside the numbers. He's a slot guy. I want you to imagine being a QB. Let's say you're 6'5 Sam Bradford. First off you have to throw over a bunch of tall O-Linemen and D-Linemen which is hard enough for any QB. Now you have 5'8 Tavon Austin with his short arms and lack of jumping ability. Imagine being Sam Bradford (or any QB) trying to find a 5'8 WR with short arms around a bunch of big LB's and Safeties? Having such short measurables means you as a QB have to be pin point accurate. Compare this to a 6'0 WR with let's say 32 inch arms and weighs 195 lbs with a 34 inch vetical. You have 4 more inches of body to target
You have 2 more inches per arm for the WR to reach for a pass
The extra weight likely means a wider chest and ability to take more of a hit
And a 34 inch vertical gives you 4 more inches of a jump

If you add the 4 inches in height, 2 inches per arm, and 4 inches more of vertical, that is 10 inches, nearly 1 foot more of a WR get a pass to.

#4. How many Super Bowl's have been won in recent years by having 2 of the top 3 WR's being under 6'0 tall? None. Because Chris Givens is 5'11. If the Rams took Austin they'd have Givens at 5'11 and Austin at 5'8.

Fisher and Snead are smart football people. They are not part of a "Madden Video Game Generation" that only wants to look at a 40 time and his "video game" abilities. They are football people. Real football people. I am sure they have looked at these measureables and said "he'll never stay healthy in the NFL. And he is too small to spend this high of a pick anyway"

I'm not saying that I disagree with you.......but, a lot of players have had poor measurables and gone on to really good careers. I'm not saying you disregard measurables, but I don't think they mean everything either. Production matters......a lot.

 

[fastcat]

When you are scouting a player you watch the FILM!! Only a fool would draft a guy becuase of his combine workout. There are many players who didnt "measure up" and have successful careers. Look at wes welker... If Austin was 4" taller then he would be a first round talent?? I didnt know you measure talent by height, weight, arm length, and vertical jumps, lmao!!

Oh yea... I personally have never seen a guy with the type of lateral quickness he has with vertical speed at the same time. If anyone has please name them.

 

[jrry32]

#4. How many Super Bowl's have been won in recent years by having 2 of the top 3 WR's being under 6'0 tall? None. Because Chris Givens is 5'11. If the Rams took Austin they'd have Givens at 5'11 and Austin at 5'8.

Fisher and Snead are smart football people. They are not part of a "Madden Video Game Generation" that only wants to look at a 40 time and his "video game" abilities. They are football people. Real football people. I am sure they have looked at these measureables and said "he'll never stay healthy in the NFL. And he is too small to spend this high of a pick anyway"

I have a question, was Joe Gibbs a real football person? The 1987 SUPER BOWL WINNING Washington Redskins top 4 WRs were 5'9" Gary Clark, 5'11" Ricky Sanders, 6'3" Art Monk and 5'11" Anthony Allen.

Perchance, do you know who led that team in receiving yards, receptions and receiving TDs? 5'9" 175 pound Gary Clark.

This same 5'9" 175 pound WR, Gary Clark, played 15+ games in every year of his career except 1987 due to the Player Strike and 1993 when he "only" played 14 games.

Yet, we're supposed to believe that there's no chance that 5'9" 175 pound Tavon Austin can stay relatively healthy...even though he's missed a grand total 0 games and 0 practices in his career.

BTW, Gary Clark is who I've compared Austin too. He played on one of the best WR corps of all time as the Redskins speedy, dynamic creator. 5'11" Ricky Sanders operated as their speedster vertical threat, 6'3" Art Monk operated as the possession WR and Gary Clark was the do it all WR who worked defenses with YAC on shorter routes and speed on deep routes.

And ready for monkey wrench #2? The 2005 Steelers that won the Super Bowl...their top 3 leading WRs were 6'0" Hines Ward, 5'10" Antwaan Randle El and 5'10" Cedrick Wilson. Is that recent enough?

Your Super Bowl argument has been debunked.

I'll do you one better, Jrry.

2003 Patriots.

Troy Brown - 5'10.
David Patten - 5'10.
Deion Branch - 5'9.

That you did. Gotta fact check before you make concrete statements...PM.

 

[jap]

When you are scouting a player you watch the FILM!! Only a fool would draft a guy becuase of his combine workout. There are many players who didnt "measure up" and have successful careers. Look at wes welker... If Austin was 4" taller then he would be a first round talent?? I didnt know you measure talent by height, weight, arm length, and vertical jumps, lmao!!

Oh yea... I personally have never seen a guy with the type of lateral quickness he has with vertical speed at the same time. If anyone has please name them.

A couple were named much earlier in other threads: Gale Sayers and Barry Sanders. How's that for company?

 

[jrry32]

I just can't see Austin going in the top 15. I mean, I can see somebody taking him, but lots of teams at the top do stupid things, that's why they're drafting there year after year. I just think that's crazy for a 5'8", 174 lb guy. He has a very thin lower body, that's probably why his vertical was bad at the Combine. Teams have got to wonder how long they will have this player. I'd rather have Warmack or Cooper, you plug them in and you've got a Pro Bowl OG for 12 years. That's my preference, anyway. I'm kind of warming up to Hunter in a trade down with the 22nd pick.

I don't get how people can knock Austin for being thin and want Hunter. Hunter is also a twig. Difference is that Austin has a clean medical history.

Taking Austin in the top 15 isn't stupid. Passing on a guy because he breaks the mold is. Imagine how all the teams who passed on Russell Wilson feel...but a 5'11" QB can't succeed...

Sometimes, you just gotta recognize when a player breaks the mold. Austin does. His lack of size is more than made up for by his combination of freakish athleticism, elite vision and excellent WR skills.

There are going to be 31 teams a couple years from now regretting that they didn't/didn't get a chance to draft Austin.

 

[paceram]

I just can't see Austin going in the top 15. I mean, I can see somebody taking him, but lots of teams at the top do stupid things, that's why they're drafting there year after year. I just think that's crazy for a 5'8", 174 lb guy. He has a very thin lower body, that's probably why his vertical was bad at the Combine. Teams have got to wonder how long they will have this player. I'd rather have Warmack or Cooper, you plug them in and you've got a Pro Bowl OG for 12 years. That's my preference, anyway. I'm kind of warming up to Hunter in a trade down with the 22nd pick.

I don't get how people can knock Austin for being thin and want Hunter. Hunter is also a twig. Difference is that Austin has a clean medical history.

Taking Austin in the top 15 isn't stupid. Passing on a guy because he breaks the mold is. Imagine how all the teams who passed on Russell Wilson feel...but a 5'11" QB can't succeed...

Sometimes, you just gotta recognize when a player breaks the mold. Austin does. His lack of size is more than made up for by his combination of freakish athleticism, elite vision and excellent WR skills.

There are going to be 31 teams a couple years from now regretting that they didn't/didn't get a chance to draft Austin.

The smaller the target the harder (more difficult) to hit! Tackling Tavon Austin seems to be like catching a greased pig!

 

[jap]

Tavon Austin (channeling Muhammed Ali):

Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee
Their hands can't hit what their eyes can't see!
:lol:

 

[max]

I just can't see Austin going in the top 15. I mean, I can see somebody taking him, but lots of teams at the top do stupid things, that's why they're drafting there year after year. I just think that's crazy for a 5'8", 174 lb guy. He has a very thin lower body, that's probably why his vertical was bad at the Combine. Teams have got to wonder how long they will have this player. I'd rather have Warmack or Cooper, you plug them in and you've got a Pro Bowl OG for 12 years. That's my preference, anyway. I'm kind of warming up to Hunter in a trade down with the 22nd pick.

I don't get how people can knock Austin for being thin and want Hunter. Hunter is also a twig. Difference is that Austin has a clean medical history.

Taking Austin in the top 15 isn't stupid. Passing on a guy because he breaks the mold is. Imagine how all the teams who passed on Russell Wilson feel...but a 5'11" QB can't succeed...

Sometimes, you just gotta recognize when a player breaks the mold. Austin does. His lack of size is more than made up for by his combination of freakish athleticism, elite vision and excellent WR skills.

There are going to be 31 teams a couple years from now regretting that they didn't/didn't get a chance to draft Austin.

I'm guessing that Hunter can get stronger, plus he jumps through the roof already. And he can play outside the number. I'm not saying I want Hunter at 16. I'm saying I'd rather have Hunter at the top of the 2nd round than Austin in the top 15.

And I'm not against taking Austin if he's there at 16. I just don't want to trade up for him. Mocks that have Buffalo taking him at 8 make no sense to me. But hey, I could end up being wrong, he could be the exception to the small skinny man rule. But that's not the way to bet.

 

[jrry32]

I just can't see Austin going in the top 15. I mean, I can see somebody taking him, but lots of teams at the top do stupid things, that's why they're drafting there year after year. I just think that's crazy for a 5'8", 174 lb guy. He has a very thin lower body, that's probably why his vertical was bad at the Combine. Teams have got to wonder how long they will have this player. I'd rather have Warmack or Cooper, you plug them in and you've got a Pro Bowl OG for 12 years. That's my preference, anyway. I'm kind of warming up to Hunter in a trade down with the 22nd pick.

I don't get how people can knock Austin for being thin and want Hunter. Hunter is also a twig. Difference is that Austin has a clean medical history.

Taking Austin in the top 15 isn't stupid. Passing on a guy because he breaks the mold is. Imagine how all the teams who passed on Russell Wilson feel...but a 5'11" QB can't succeed...

Sometimes, you just gotta recognize when a player breaks the mold. Austin does. His lack of size is more than made up for by his combination of freakish athleticism, elite vision and excellent WR skills.

There are going to be 31 teams a couple years from now regretting that they didn't/didn't get a chance to draft Austin.

I'm guessing that Hunter can get stronger, plus he jumps through the roof already. And he can play outside the number. I'm not saying I want Hunter at 16. I'm saying I'd rather have Hunter at the top of the 2nd round than Austin in the top 15.

And I'm not against taking Austin if he's there at 16. I just don't want to trade up for him. Mocks that have Buffalo taking him at 8 make no sense to me. But hey, I could end up being wrong, he could be the exception to the small skinny man rule. But that's not the way to bet.

I doubt Hunter will gain much weight. He's like Danario...just very skinny build.

I agree with not trading up for Austin...but the dilemma isn't really top 15 vs. top of 2nd round. We don't have picks at either of those spots.

 

[max]

I just can't see Austin going in the top 15. I mean, I can see somebody taking him, but lots of teams at the top do stupid things, that's why they're drafting there year after year. I just think that's crazy for a 5'8", 174 lb guy. He has a very thin lower body, that's probably why his vertical was bad at the Combine. Teams have got to wonder how long they will have this player. I'd rather have Warmack or Cooper, you plug them in and you've got a Pro Bowl OG for 12 years. That's my preference, anyway. I'm kind of warming up to Hunter in a trade down with the 22nd pick.

I don't get how people can knock Austin for being thin and want Hunter. Hunter is also a twig. Difference is that Austin has a clean medical history.

Taking Austin in the top 15 isn't stupid. Passing on a guy because he breaks the mold is. Imagine how all the teams who passed on Russell Wilson feel...but a 5'11" QB can't succeed...

Sometimes, you just gotta recognize when a player breaks the mold. Austin does. His lack of size is more than made up for by his combination of freakish athleticism, elite vision and excellent WR skills.

There are going to be 31 teams a couple years from now regretting that they didn't/didn't get a chance to draft Austin.

I'm guessing that Hunter can get stronger, plus he jumps through the roof already. And he can play outside the number. I'm not saying I want Hunter at 16. I'm saying I'd rather have Hunter at the top of the 2nd round than Austin in the top 15.

And I'm not against taking Austin if he's there at 16. I just don't want to trade up for him. Mocks that have Buffalo taking him at 8 make no sense to me. But hey, I could end up being wrong, he could be the exception to the small skinny man rule. But that's not the way to bet.

I doubt Hunter will gain much weight. He's like Danario...just very skinny build.

I agree with not trading up for Austin...but the dilemma isn't really top 15 vs. top of 2nd round. We don't have picks at either of those spots.

Here's my view...

I believe Austin is going before pick 16, so the Rams will have to trade up to get him. I'm against that.

OTOH, I am for trading pick 22 to Buffalo or another team at the top of the order and getting their high 2nd rounder and their 3rd rounder. With the high 2nd rounder I would take Hunter or another WR, then I'd have pick 46 and two 3rd rounder to work with.

Snead was on Rich Eisen's show and said he wants more picks and would love to help a team wanting to pick a QB at 22 for a small price. So he's already marketing the pick.

 

[shaunpinney]

Speed isn't everything....

I could run the 200m in 22.13s and the 100m in 12s so on average my 40mm is 4.61 - I'm only 5'7.5" and was between 80-90k when i used to compete nationally in athletics and rugby, and was even scouted as a PR for an NFL team, but every week, i'd be getting more battered & bruised, everyone just kept getting bigger and harder to get down - 20 years on and I'm still suffering from all those hits...

I hope TA CAN make it in the NFL - even if it's for us sub 6' guys!

 

[-X-]

Speed isn't everything....

I could run the 200m in 22.13s and the 100m in 12s so on average my 40mm is 4.61 - I'm only 5'7.5" and was between 80-90k when i used to compete nationally in athletics and rugby, and was even scouted as a PR for an NFL team, but every week, i'd be getting more battered & bruised, everyone just kept getting bigger and harder to get down - 20 years on and I'm still suffering from all those hits...

I hope TA CAN make it in the NFL - even if it's for us sub 6' guys!

Cool, man. Thanks for the background info.

 

[Stranger]

Greg Cosell On West Virginia WR Tavon Austin...
<a class="postlink" href="http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/shutdown-corner-draft-podcast-greg-cosell-evaluating-wr-192252673--nfl.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutd ... --nfl.html</a>

"He may be one of my favorite players in this draft, and I spent a lot of time talking about this on Twitter the other day. I would select this kid in the top 10 or 12 in the draft, and I think that this is where the league is going. I wrote about this in my last column on Shutdown Corner. The NFL has now become a passing space league in many ways, and the conventional concepts of how to use receivers -- that's a little old-school. I think Tavon Austin fits where this league is going."

 

[libertadrocks]

Greg Cosell On West Virginia WR Tavon Austin...
<a class="postlink" href="http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/shutdown-corner-draft-podcast-greg-cosell-evaluating-wr-192252673--nfl.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutd ... --nfl.html</a>

"He may be one of my favorite players in this draft, and I spent a lot of time talking about this on Twitter the other day. I would select this kid in the top 10 or 12 in the draft, and I think that this is where the league is going. I wrote about this in my last column on Shutdown Corner. The NFL has now become a passing space league in many ways, and the conventional concepts of how to use receivers -- that's a little old-school. I think Tavon Austin fits where this league is going."

lus1:

Cosell is a Boss

 

[duckhunter]

I've called Austin an anamoly. Where he gets selected is a puzzle to me. I can understand the folks that say in the 1st and understand that 2-4 is the conventional range for a returner/slot guy. I've went back and forth and I wouldn't really mind him at #22. I'd love him in the 2nd but don't think he gets there.

All the comparisons that you guys have listed and analyasis seems inadequate to me. Austin in my book is a pig. Suey, Suey.

Has anyone ever tried to catch a pig? Have you gone to the county fair and seen where they line up 20 kids and let the pigs loose and the kids try to catch them? It's hilarious. A determined kid with a somewhat comparable height and weight size advantage of a LB to Austin struggles to bend low enough to leverage the size advantage. In my mind, that's what tackling Austin is like.

My perverted contribution for the day. Hope it brings a smile to someone's face.

 

[jrry32]

I've called Austin an anamoly. Where he gets selected is a puzzle to me. I can understand the folks that say in the 1st and understand that 2-4 is the conventional range for a returner/slot guy. I've went back and forth and I wouldn't really mind him at #22. I'd love him in the 2nd but don't think he gets there.

All the comparisons that you guys have listed and analyasis seems inadequate to me. Austin in my book is a pig. Suey, Suey.

Has anyone ever tried to catch a pig? Have you gone to the county fair and seen where they line up 20 kids and let the pigs loose and the kids try to catch them? It's hilarious. A determined kid with a somewhat comparable height and weight size advantage of a LB to Austin struggles to bend low enough to leverage the size advantage. In my mind, that's what tackling Austin is like.

My perverted contribution for the day. Hope it brings a smile to someone's face.

Haha. I get where you're coming from.

This move right here has to be the one that impressed me the most with Austin:
<a class="postlink" href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3_UNFZHSQU#t=08m02s" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3_UNFZHSQU#t=08m02s</a>

Why? Look at his body. His head, hips and shoulders never move while he changes directions on a dime. It's insane. Defender legitimately has no way of anticipating that move. It takes ridiculous body control, balance and feet to pull that off.