Tavon Austin IS NOT a First Round Player

[Playmaker]

Here we are two weeks before the draft and Rams Fans and the St.Louis Media have made it clear who they have the most arousal for. West Virginia WR Tavon Austin.

But let me tell you this and you all can archive it and come back in a few years and say "Playmaker told us so" Tavon Austin is not worth a first round pick.

#1. How many 5'8 WR's do you know of that are starting in the NFL? Or even one of the top 3 WR's on a team?

#2. Other than his 40 time, the rest of his measurables are weak.
30 Inch Arms and 9 1/8 hands for a 5'8 WR
A 32 Inch Vertical......for a 5'8 WR

His 32 inch vertical was bad. How bad? Only 4 other WR's at the Scouting Combine had less than a 32 inch vertical.

His 30.08 inch arms were the second shortest of all the WR's at the Scouting Combine.

#3. Tavon Austin will never make a living outside the numbers. He's a slot guy. I want you to imagine being a QB. Let's say you're 6'5 Sam Bradford. First off you have to throw over a bunch of tall O-Linemen and D-Linemen which is hard enough for any QB. Now you have 5'8 Tavon Austin with his short arms and lack of jumping ability. Imagine being Sam Bradford (or any QB) trying to find a 5'8 WR with short arms around a bunch of big LB's and Safeties? Having such short measurables means you as a QB have to be pin point accurate. Compare this to a 6'0 WR with let's say 32 inch arms and weighs 195 lbs with a 34 inch vetical. You have 4 more inches of body to target
You have 2 more inches per arm for the WR to reach for a pass
The extra weight likely means a wider chest and ability to take more of a hit
And a 34 inch vertical gives you 4 more inches of a jump

If you add the 4 inches in height, 2 inches per arm, and 4 inches more of vertical, that is 10 inches, nearly 1 foot more of a WR get a pass to.

#4. How many Super Bowl's have been won in recent years by having 2 of the top 3 WR's being under 6'0 tall? None. Because Chris Givens is 5'11. If the Rams took Austin they'd have Givens at 5'11 and Austin at 5'8.

Fisher and Snead are smart football people. They are not part of a "Madden Video Game Generation" that only wants to look at a 40 time and his "video game" abilities. They are football people. Real football people. I am sure they have looked at these measureables and said "he'll never stay healthy in the NFL. And he is too small to spend this high of a pick anyway"

 

[-X-]

Except he will be drafted in the first round.



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Sent via Tapatalk2.

 

[Playmaker]

Except he will be drafted in the first round.

So was a long line of busts. Austin will be the next one if someone is dumb enough to take him with a first round pick.

 

[CGI_Ram]

Yeah he's small. But if he's WIDE OPEN he's plenty big of a target! :shifty:

But, I won't argue the fact that he's a risk because of that size. But that size is also why he's so dynamic.

 

[iced]

Except he will be drafted in the first round.

So was a long line of busts. Austin will be the next one if someone is dumb enough to take him with a first round pick.

Desean Jackson is "short" by receiver standards; however, his speed allows him to make up for that,and he's a threat in space with the ball.. This is what Tavon Austin is, except a few inches shorter and with a wee bit more bulk.

Austin can be used in multi-dimensions. He's not a one dimensional player, such as purely a slot receiver.

And if a team can win the dance with a QB like Trent dilfer, I'm not worried about how big a WR when it comes to winning a championship (which entails having ALL the pieces to the puzzle.)

 

[jrry32]

No, he is a first rounder.

As for the Super Bowl argument, didn't the GSOT have 6'0" Bruce, 6'0" Holt, 6'0" Proehl and 5'10" Az Hakim...so you're telling me the difference between being a Super Bowl winner and not being able to win the Super Bowl is Chris Givens being listed at 6'0" instead of 5'11"?

Or how about the 2010 Steelers who lost to the Packers in the SB with 6'0" Hines Ward, 6'0" Mike Wallace, 5'11" Emmanuel Sanders, 5'10" Antwaan Randle El and 5'10" Antonio Brown? The difference was less than 1 inch.

Not buying it.

Oh and how about the 84 Dolphins? Did they lose the Super Bowl because 5'9" Mark Clayton and 5'9" Mark Duper were too short? Those two only combined for nearly 2700 yards and 26 TDs that year.

 

[iced]

No, he is a first rounder.

As for the Super Bowl argument, didn't the GSOT have 6'0" Bruce, 6'0" Holt, 6'0" Proehl and 5'10" Az Hakim...so you're telling me the difference between being a Super Bowl winner and not being able to win the Super Bowl is Chris Givens being listed at 6'0" instead of 5'11"?

Or how about the 2010 Steelers who lost to the Packers in the SB with 6'0" Hines Ward, 6'0" Mike Wallace, 5'11" Emmanuel Sanders, 5'10" Antwaan Randle El and 5'10" Antonio Brown? The difference was less than 1 inch.

Not buying it.

Oh and how about the 84 Dolphins? Did they lose the Super Bowl because 5'9" Mark Clayton and 5'9" Mark Duper were too short? Those two only combined for nearly 2700 yards and 26 TDs that year.

Lol and Az Hakim was the 3rd receiver anyway wasn't he? he was the slot speed demon

 

[Selassie I]

Steve Smith is 5' 9".

 

[Memento]

In all honesty, I have to politely disagree with your assessment...and I'm not even a huge fan of Tavon Austin. He has produced great numbers against top competition. He has game-breaking speed and quickness. He's a special talent in a laughably-weak draft class. He's definitely worth a pick in the first round, especially since he has the potential to be a special player in this league.

I may not want to draft him, but he is a first round player.

 

[Angry Ram]

Using measurement numbers to downgrade a draft choice is a very short sighted way to look at players.

 

[Playmaker]

Yeah he's small. But if he's WIDE OPEN he's plenty big of a target! :shifty:

But, I won't argue the fact that he's a risk because of that size. But that size is also why he's so dynamic.

CGI, I've always found you to be very even keel. So I like when you post a response to one of my posts.

I like how you used the term "wide open" and went ALL CAPS with it. It allows me to go off on a tangent. The term "wide open" in the NFL doesn't exist unless one of two things happen.

#1. A Defender blows his assignment
or
#2. The Defender falls down

Unlike College Football on any given weekend where receivers are literally "Wide Open" because of schemes or the fact they are a better player than the defenders. So many scholarships are issued to offensive players due to the boom of the spread offense. Therefore Defenders are nowhere near as good as the offensive players in College Football anymore. Hence any given weekend of College Football we see so many 45-42, 41-38 type games that last nearly 4 hours.

Let's use the term "separation" with Austin. How much separation will a 5'8 WR with short arms get you? He's not going to be the over whelming best athlete on the field in the NFL. Players like him are role players, not starters. And role players should not be first round picks. Darren Sproles, Leon Washington, Dexter McCluster, T.Y. Hilton, and Devin Hester are all examples of role players. Or a term I like to use "gadget players." These are players that you can not use as 3 down players because of their size/abilities. You want these guys to touch the ball around 10 times a game between kick/punt returns, receptions, and rush attempts. But they all also have something in common. None were taken in the first round.

 

[Playmaker]

Desean Jackson is "short" by receiver standards; however, his speed allows him to make up for that,and he's a threat in space with the ball.. This is what Tavon Austin is, except a few inches shorter and with a wee bit more bulk.

Austin can be used in multi-dimensions. He's not a one dimensional player, such as purely a slot receiver.

And if a team can win the dance with a QB like Trent dilfer, I'm not worried about how big a WR when it comes to winning a championship (which entails having ALL the pieces to the puzzle.)

Desean Jackson was a 2nd round pick. And Jackson has battled to stay healthy in recent years. Not to mention his receiving numbers have never been great.

The Trent Dilfer reference is played out. How many teams have won with this approach in recent years? None. Dilfer was the exception to the rule. No team is going to win a Super Bowl anymore throwing the ball 12 times a game.

Austin a multi-deminsional player? In college yes. In the NFL, well I would like to see him try to play RB when Patrick Willis or Kam Chancelor is coming down hill to lay the wood on him. You take a player in the first round because he is a 3 down player at one position. Not a role or gadget player.

 

[Playmaker]

In all honesty, I have to politely disagree with your assessment...and I'm not even a huge fan of Tavon Austin. He has produced great numbers against top competition

You mean the Big East and Big XII? Two of the weakest conferences for Defense in all of college football? What current or future NFL starting DB's has he went one-one against in college? What NFL caliber talent has he went up against in college?

He lined up against the 2nd or 3rd best CB's on Defensively deficient teams week after week. Reminds me of the Vernon Gholston debate in 2008 when all the Gholston people pointed to his sack numbers. But when told he compiled the large majority of those sacks vs OT's that would never play in the NFL, they ignored that fact. Then Gholston is drafted #6 overall in 2008 by the Jets and has turned into one of the major busts in NFL Draft History. Just like Tavon Austin will if he is selected in the first round

 

[bwdenverram]

Here we are two weeks before the draft and Rams Fans and the St.Louis Media have made it clear who they have the most arousal for. West Virginia WR Tavon Austin.

But let me tell you this and you all can archive it and come back in a few years and say "Playmaker told us so" Tavon Austin is not worth a first round pick.

#1. How many 5'8 WR's do you know of that are starting in the NFL? Or even one of the top 3 WR's on a team?

#2. Other than his 40 time, the rest of his measurables are weak.
30 Inch Arms and 9 1/8 hands for a 5'8 WR
A 32 Inch Vertical......for a 5'8 WR

His 32 inch vertical was bad. How bad? Only 4 other WR's at the Scouting Combine had less than a 32 inch vertical.

His 30.08 inch arms were the second shortest of all the WR's at the Scouting Combine.

#3. Tavon Austin will never make a living outside the numbers. He's a slot guy. I want you to imagine being a QB. Let's say you're 6'5 Sam Bradford. First off you have to throw over a bunch of tall O-Linemen and D-Linemen which is hard enough for any QB. Now you have 5'8 Tavon Austin with his short arms and lack of jumping ability. Imagine being Sam Bradford (or any QB) trying to find a 5'8 WR with short arms around a bunch of big LB's and Safeties? Having such short measurables means you as a QB have to be pin point accurate. Compare this to a 6'0 WR with let's say 32 inch arms and weighs 195 lbs with a 34 inch vetical. You have 4 more inches of body to target
You have 2 more inches per arm for the WR to reach for a pass
The extra weight likely means a wider chest and ability to take more of a hit
And a 34 inch vertical gives you 4 more inches of a jump

If you add the 4 inches in height, 2 inches per arm, and 4 inches more of vertical, that is 10 inches, nearly 1 foot more of a WR get a pass to.

#4. How many Super Bowl's have been won in recent years by having 2 of the top 3 WR's being under 6'0 tall? None. Because Chris Givens is 5'11. If the Rams took Austin they'd have Givens at 5'11 and Austin at 5'8.

Fisher and Snead are smart football people. They are not part of a "Madden Video Game Generation" that only wants to look at a 40 time and his "video game" abilities. They are football people. Real football people. I am sure they have looked at these measureables and said "he'll never stay healthy in the NFL. And he is too small to spend this high of a pick anyway"

And Spud Webb will never win a slam dunk contest.

Oh wait..

Say what you like but Austin has proved he can play at every level so far, not sure why you think the NFL will be any different. You can't tackle what you can't catch.

Answer me this- Would you take a 5' 11" 187lb white receiver with very average speed and never to catch more than 79 passes in any season spanning 13 years?

Well I would and his name is Steve Largent. 100 TD catches and in the HOF. Point is, never judge a book by it's cover.

Austin may be small in stature, but he is a football player. Plain and simple. Do you think Austin is playing against 100 lb girls in College? He hasn't been hurt yet so I wish people would stop using that excuse. Are you an Amendola fan? I am but he was hurt more than any receiver we had.

Fisher and Snead want PLAYMAKERS.

 

[Playmaker]

And Spud Webb will never win a slam dunk contest.

Oh wait..

Say what you like but Austin has proved he can play at every level so far, not sure why you think the NFL will be any different. You can't tackle what you can't catch.

Answer me this- Would you take a 5' 11" 187lb white receiver with very average speed and never to catch more than 79 passes in any season spanning 13 years?

Well I would and his name is Steve Largent. 100 TD catches and in the HOF. Point is, never judge a book by it's cover.

Austin may be small in stature, but he is a football player. Plain and simple. Do you think Austin is playing against 100 lb girls in College? He hasn't been hurt yet so I wish people would stop using that excuse. Are you an Amendola fan? I am but he was hurt more than any receiver we had.

Fisher and Snead want PLAYMAKERS.

Spud Webb won a Slam Dunk contest. But he wasn't much of an NBA player when they actually played games.

And you do realize Steve Largent was a 4th round pick?

Value is what I am talking about. Last year the Rams passed on Morris Claiborne because they felt like they could get similar value in the second round. They took Janoris Jenkins. They also passed up on Fletcher Cox at #6 because the felt like Michael Brockers was the top DT in the draft. Even thought none of the "experts" or fans did.

Fisher and Snead want playmakers, but they want football players first. They can not afford to take such a huge risk with a first round pick knowing they have to hit on all their first round picks to turn this thing around. Austin's value is in the third round as a gadget player.

 

[Selassie I]

Maybe I didn't speak clearly enough ...

STEVE SMITH IS 5' 9"

and he's a fucking beast all 3 , and sometimes 4, downs.

 

[bwdenverram]

And Spud Webb will never win a slam dunk contest.

Oh wait..

Say what you like but Austin has proved he can play at every level so far, not sure why you think the NFL will be any different. You can't tackle what you can't catch.

Answer me this- Would you take a 5' 11" 187lb white receiver with very average speed and never to catch more than 79 passes in any season spanning 13 years?

Well I would and his name is Steve Largent. 100 TD catches and in the HOF. Point is, never judge a book by it's cover.

Austin may be small in stature, but he is a football player. Plain and simple. Do you think Austin is playing against 100 lb girls in College? He hasn't been hurt yet so I wish people would stop using that excuse. Are you an Amendola fan? I am but he was hurt more than any receiver we had.

Fisher and Snead want PLAYMAKERS.

Spud Webb won a Slam Dunk contest. But he wasn't much of an NBA player when they actually played games.

And you do realize Steve Largent was a 4th round pick?

Value is what I am talking about. Last year the Rams passed on Morris Claiborne because they felt like they could get similar value in the second round. They took Janoris Jenkins. They also passed up on Fletcher Cox at #6 because the felt like Michael Brockers was the top DT in the draft. Even thought none of the "experts" or fans did.

Fisher and Snead want playmakers, but they want football players first. They can not afford to take such a huge risk with a first round pick knowing they have to hit on all their first round picks to turn this thing around. Austin's value is in the third round as a gadget player.

I understand what you are saying but the reality is Largent, Rice, etc. that happen in later rounds are freak incidents. It's a lot harder to get impact players at this position in later rounds. Does it happen? Sure, but the percentages go down. You have to consider the draft class also. There are some good receivers, but IMO there are only 2-3 that are game changers. Those guys are 1st round players (at least this year).
I'd bet money if Austin was 6' 2" and 205 with the same skill set you would probably be on board?
I guess we'll just disagree and that's perfectly fine. I just see Austin as a special talent. Not just as a receiver, think of ALL the places he can line up. He can create so many mismatches that he is an OC's dream. To me, that far outweighs his size.

 

[Playmaker]

Maybe I didn't speak clearly enough ...

STEVE SMITH IS 5' 9"

and he's a freaking beast all 3 , and sometimes 4, downs.

And Steve Smith was a third round pick that came in undersized and basically got a "Red Shirt" year at WR as a rookie.

Let's compare measurables
Vertical Jump
Steve Smith 38.5 inches
Tavon Austin 32 inches

Weight
Steve Smith 184 lbs
Tavon Austin 174 lbs

40 Time
Steve Smith 4.38
Tavon Austin 4.34

Bench Press (Reps x 225 Lbs)
Steve Smith 22 Reps
Tavon Austin 14

I can not find Smith's hand size or arm length. But Smith has always been a bigger, more physical little WR. Austin is finesse. Smith's 6.5 extra inches on his vertical, an extra inch in height gives a QB a lot more room for error. Like I said, Smith was a third round pick. That is where is value was at his size and ability. Austin's value is less than Smith's

 

[Memento]

In all honesty, I have to politely disagree with your assessment...and I'm not even a huge fan of Tavon Austin. He has produced great numbers against top competition

You mean the Big East and Big XII? Two of the weakest conferences for Defense in all of college football? What current or future NFL starting DB's has he went one-one against in college? What NFL caliber talent has he went up against in college?

He lined up against the 2nd or 3rd best CB's on Defensively deficient teams week after week. Reminds me of the Vernon Gholston debate in 2008 when all the Gholston people pointed to his sack numbers. But when told he compiled the large majority of those sacks vs OT's that would never play in the NFL, they ignored that fact. Then Gholston is drafted #6 overall in 2008 by the Jets and has turned into one of the major busts in NFL Draft History. Just like Tavon Austin will if he is selected in the first round

You keep saying he "will" bust, like it's an utmost certainty. The only thing that is a certainty is that none of us know how their careers will turn out.

And to answer your question, Morris Claiborne (LSU), Tyrann Mathieu (LSU), Tharold Simon (LSU) Blidi Wreh-Wilson (UConn), Dwayne Gratz (UConn), Logan Ryan (Rutgers), Demontre Hurst (Oklahoma), Carrington Byndom (Texas, 2014), Justin Gilbert (Oklahoma State, 2014), Quandre Diggs (Texas, 2014), and Devan Drane (Cincinnati, 2014). And those are just the cornerbacks. I haven't even gone into the safeties.

 

[Playmaker]

I understand what you are saying but the reality is Largent, Rice, etc. that happen in later rounds are freak incidents. It's a lot harder to get impact players at this position in later rounds. Does it happen? Sure, but the percentages go down. You have to consider the draft class also. There are some good receivers, but IMO there are only 2-3 that are game changers. Those guys are 1st round players (at least this year).
I'd bet money if Austin was 6' 2" and 205 with the same skill set you would probably be on board?
I guess we'll just disagree and that's perfectly fine. I just see Austin as a special talent. Not just as a receiver, think of ALL the places he can line up. He can create so many mismatches that he is an OC's dream. To me, that far outweighs his size.

If Tavon Austin was 6'2 and weighed 205 lbs he's be a top 5 pick. Then again if I had 5 million dollars, I'd be a lot richer, right? Point is Austin is not 6'2 205 lbs. He's 5'8 174 lbs. And I don't have 5 million dollars. This guy is a Ted Ginn/Roscoe Parrish type player. Size in the NFL is an asset. And Austin simply lacks size.