Tavon Austin IS NOT a First Round Player

[Selassie I]

Where a player is drafted doesn't really mean squat ,,, especially when you consider the new CBA.

The fact is,,, Steve Smith is a short little guy who has been lighting-up NFL CBs for a very long time.

I consider the two extremely comparable. Will Austin have 75% of the career Smith has had? I'll fucking take it and be very happy if so. All 5' 8" of it :ww:

 

[PressureD41]

I been saying the same thing. Austin is overrated. I pray he's not a Ram.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[bwdenverram]

Maybe I didn't speak clearly enough ...

STEVE SMITH IS 5' 9"

and he's a freaking beast all 3 , and sometimes 4, downs.

And Steve Smith was a third round pick that came in undersized and basically got a "Red Shirt" year at WR as a rookie.

Let's compare measurables
Vertical Jump
Steve Smith 38.5 inches
Tavon Austin 32 inches

Weight
Steve Smith 184 lbs
Tavon Austin 174 lbs

40 Time
Steve Smith 4.38
Tavon Austin 4.34

Bench Press (Reps x 225 Lbs)
Steve Smith 22 Reps
Tavon Austin 14

I can not find Smith's hand size or arm length. But Smith has always been a bigger, more physical little WR. Austin is finesse. Smith's 6.5 extra inches on his vertical, an extra inch in height gives a QB a lot more room for error. Like I said, Smith was a third round pick. That is where is value was at his size and ability. Austin's value is less than Smith's

Tell me bro, if you aren't a fan of Austin (at least in rd 1) then who are your picks?
I'm assuming you want a receiver at some point in the draft?

 

[ramsince62]

Yeah he's small. But if he's WIDE OPEN he's plenty big of a target! :shifty:

But, I won't argue the fact that he's a risk because of that size. But that size is also why he's so dynamic.

Well I don't know if it's his size that makes him dynamic as much as his open field quickness and speed. His size has been a concern for me from the start with regard to his staying healthy and available, but when in space, who can get a lick on him?.

That said, he brings amazing allusiveness and can scare the hell out of defenses trying to account for him. I see him as a role player and S.T. threat, something that the Rams sorely need. So for better or worse IMO, he's worth consideration and I'll let the soothe sayers ponder the negative possibilities in a rear view mirror.

Incidentally, I wonder how many have imagined this guy "popping" out from behind 6'6" O linemen at a full gallop. Yeah he's small and light, now let's see how defensive back fields deal with it. :boing:

 

[PressureD41]

this debate made me think of this cheesy song. sarcasm intended w/ this song

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zyf0YwUJcqk[/youtube]

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zyf0YwUJcqk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zyf0YwUJcqk</a>

 

[iced]

Whatever bro, say what you want but austin has proven against different levels of competition that he's still effective. That's what you want in a play maker right?

Even mister "slot machine" went deep against LSU more than once.. I'll take a football player over measureables, like a onobun or alex barron

 

[Agamemnon]

this debate made me think of this cheesy song. sarcasm intended w/ this song

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zyf0YwUJcqk[/youtube]

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zyf0YwUJcqk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zyf0YwUJcqk</a>

 

[PressureD41]

this debate made me think of this cheesy song. sarcasm intended w/ this song

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zyf0YwUJcqk[/youtube]

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zyf0YwUJcqk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zyf0YwUJcqk</a>

Ag, buddy whats the secret to adding a youtube link correctly, this is twice this week you helped me post it lol

thx VCR

 

[bwdenverram]

I understand what you are saying but the reality is Largent, Rice, etc. that happen in later rounds are freak incidents. It's a lot harder to get impact players at this position in later rounds. Does it happen? Sure, but the percentages go down. You have to consider the draft class also. There are some good receivers, but IMO there are only 2-3 that are game changers. Those guys are 1st round players (at least this year).
I'd bet money if Austin was 6' 2" and 205 with the same skill set you would probably be on board?
I guess we'll just disagree and that's perfectly fine. I just see Austin as a special talent. Not just as a receiver, think of ALL the places he can line up. He can create so many mismatches that he is an OC's dream. To me, that far outweighs his size.

[hil]If Tavon Austin was 6'2 and weighed 205 lbs he's be a top 5 pick. Then again if I had 5 million dollars, I'd be a lot richer, right? Point is Austin is not 6'2 205 lbs. He's 5'8 174 lbs. And I don't have 5 million dollars. This guy is a Ted Ginn/Roscoe Parrish type player. Size in the NFL is an asset. And Austin simply lacks size.[/hil]

Ginn and Parrish never put up the numbers Austin has. The Lions drafted many 1st round receivers with size before Megatron and they didn't pan out. Just saying this can be argued all day. If your only argument is 3" and 20 lbs than I don't know what to tell you. I'll guess we will find out soon enough.

 

[Agamemnon]

this debate made me think of this cheesy song. sarcasm intended w/ this song

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zyf0YwUJcqk[/youtube]

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zyf0YwUJcqk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zyf0YwUJcqk</a>

Ag, buddy whats the secret to adding a youtube link correctly, this is twice this week you helped me post it lol

thx VCR

That was a simple syntax/typo error. In the Quote tag, you had inadvertently lost the starting bracket for the second part of the tag. [hil][[/hil] /quote]

Otherwise, Dude's board is more forgiving than the RM's board and technically superior.

 

[-X-]

Except he will be drafted in the first round.

So was a long line of busts. Austin will be the next one if someone is dumb enough to take him with a first round pick.

I was being literal with your thread title of course.

I know you're kind of a big deal, but I don't know that your assessment of Austin would make an NFL GM dumb by comparison should they draft him. Clearly Austin has a specific skill set that would be beneficial in a specific offense. Moreso than any other receiver of his type. That offense being one predicated on a heavy WCO slant or one with a focus on the read-option QB whose targets can take a short pass (or "long handoff") for a big gain.

That's not what we're looking for (that I know of), but some team is going to benefit from what he has to offer, and they can't roll the dice that he'll still be around in the second round. That's why he *is* a first rounder.

There are new schemes in the league than there were even a few years ago. As such, different types of players suddenly become more valuable. Super mobile QBs, for example.

Now if I'm right about this, you can tell me in a couple of years that I told you so.

Actually, that's not important. It's just an opinion. ;-)

P.S. I'm getting really good at this phone-typing thing. Lol.

.


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[RamFan503]

Here we are two weeks before the draft and Rams Fans and the St.Louis Media have made it clear who they have the most arousal for. West Virginia WR Tavon Austin.

But let me tell you this and you all can archive it and come back in a few years and say "Playmaker told us so" Tavon Austin is not worth a first round pick.

We need more threads that start out like THIS. Just sayin'

 

[Faceplant]

Ginn and Parrish never put up the numbers Austin has. The Lions drafted many 1st round receivers with size before Megatron and they didn't pan out. Just saying this can be argued all day. If your only argument is 3" and 20 lbs than I don't know what to tell you. I'll guess we will find out soon enough.

Pretty much this. Not worth arguing again over Austin or anyone else's "DIFINITIVE" impact in the NFL before they have ever played a down. Yawn...

I will say this. It is my prediction that Austin goes to multiple pro bowls. May even make one as a rookie.

 

[bluecoconuts]

He will be picked in the first round, and he will probably do just fine. The NFL is changing, rules favor the offense, receivers have more space, hits are softer. That means guys like Austin will have a much better chance to thrive. The team needs playmakers, and that's what he is. Now I don't know who they pick, I'm not in the war room. But if its Austin, I won't be complaining. They will have done their homework.

 

[jrry32]

#4. How many Super Bowl's have been won in recent years by having 2 of the top 3 WR's being under 6'0 tall? None. Because Chris Givens is 5'11. If the Rams took Austin they'd have Givens at 5'11 and Austin at 5'8.

Fisher and Snead are smart football people. They are not part of a "Madden Video Game Generation" that only wants to look at a 40 time and his "video game" abilities. They are football people. Real football people. I am sure they have looked at these measureables and said "he'll never stay healthy in the NFL. And he is too small to spend this high of a pick anyway"

I have a question, was Joe Gibbs a real football person? The 1987 SUPER BOWL WINNING Washington Redskins top 4 WRs were 5'9" Gary Clark, 5'11" Ricky Sanders, 6'3" Art Monk and 5'11" Anthony Allen.

Perchance, do you know who led that team in receiving yards, receptions and receiving TDs? 5'9" 175 pound Gary Clark.

This same 5'9" 175 pound WR, Gary Clark, played 15+ games in every year of his career except 1987 due to the Player Strike and 1993 when he "only" played 14 games.

Yet, we're supposed to believe that there's no chance that 5'9" 175 pound Tavon Austin can stay relatively healthy...even though he's missed a grand total 0 games and 0 practices in his career.

BTW, Gary Clark is who I've compared Austin too. He played on one of the best WR corps of all time as the Redskins speedy, dynamic creator. 5'11" Ricky Sanders operated as their speedster vertical threat, 6'3" Art Monk operated as the possession WR and Gary Clark was the do it all WR who worked defenses with YAC on shorter routes and speed on deep routes.

And ready for monkey wrench #2? The 2005 Steelers that won the Super Bowl...their top 3 leading WRs were 6'0" Hines Ward, 5'10" Antwaan Randle El and 5'10" Cedrick Wilson. Is that recent enough?

Your Super Bowl argument has been debunked.

 

[Warner4Prez]

I love that we as a fan base (and especially a board) are so passionate about what our team is going to do this draft. This whole 1st round WR thing has been bandied about about for years now. I remember a debate going back to 2006 where people were actually advocating Ted Ginn Jr. being selected for this team because of a need at WR. Granted that would have panned out about as well as the eventual Adam Carriker pick but that ain't the point.

The offense is hurting bad for play makers and I get that. Speed kills in today's NFL, but size helps almost as much. I think this team is set at the outside receiver spot. Givens and Quick will hold it down all season, I'm pretty damn confident in saying that. That leaves some options with the two 1st overall picks. Guard (which could happen), Safety (which is incredibly deep) or DT (which many view as a luxury pick).

Considering there's two picks burning a hole in the pocket, I'd advocate OG and Austin. Outside receivers are set, but there is a NEED at slot, and Austin would both fill a need and be the BPA.

Ideally I'd use Austin as trade bait though and flip 16 for another 2nd rounder, and maybe a mid-round pick next year.

Keep up with the passion fellow Ram fans, but let's not get too pushy, eh?

 

[-X-]

#4. How many Super Bowl's have been won in recent years by having 2 of the top 3 WR's being under 6'0 tall? None. Because Chris Givens is 5'11. If the Rams took Austin they'd have Givens at 5'11 and Austin at 5'8.

Fisher and Snead are smart football people. They are not part of a "Madden Video Game Generation" that only wants to look at a 40 time and his "video game" abilities. They are football people. Real football people. I am sure they have looked at these measureables and said "he'll never stay healthy in the NFL. And he is too small to spend this high of a pick anyway"

I have a question, was Joe Gibbs a real football person? The 1987 SUPER BOWL WINNING Washington Redskins top 4 WRs were 5'9" Gary Clark, 5'11" Ricky Sanders, 6'3" Art Monk and 5'11" Anthony Allen.

Perchance, do you know who led that team in receiving yards, receptions and receiving TDs? 5'9" 175 pound Gary Clark.

This same 5'9" 175 pound WR, Gary Clark, played 15+ games in every year of his career except 1987 due to the Player Strike and 1993 when he "only" played 14 games.

Yet, we're supposed to believe that there's no chance that 5'9" 175 pound Tavon Austin can stay relatively healthy...even though he's missed a grand total 0 games and 0 practices in his career.

BTW, Gary Clark is who I've compared Austin too. He played on one of the best WR corps of all time as the Redskins speedy, dynamic creator. 5'11" Ricky Sanders operated as their speedster vertical threat, 6'3" Art Monk operated as the possession WR and Gary Clark was the do it all WR who worked defenses with YAC on shorter routes and speed on deep routes.

And ready for monkey wrench #2? The 2005 Steelers that won the Super Bowl...their top 3 leading WRs were 6'0" Hines Ward, 5'10" Antwaan Randle El and 5'10" Cedrick Wilson. Is that recent enough?

Your Super Bowl argument has been debunked.

I'll do you one better, Jrry.

2003 Patriots.

Troy Brown - 5'10.
David Patten - 5'10.
Deion Branch - 5'9.

 

[PressureD41]

this debate made me think of this cheesy song. sarcasm intended w/ this song

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zyf0YwUJcqk[/youtube]

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zyf0YwUJcqk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zyf0YwUJcqk</a>

Ag, buddy whats the secret to adding a youtube link correctly, this is twice this week you helped me post it lol

thx VCR

That was a simple syntax/typo error. In the Quote tag, you had inadvertently lost the starting bracket for the second part of the tag. [hil][[/hil] /quote]

Otherwise, Dude's board is more forgiving than the RM's board and technically superior.

Thx Ag



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[CGI_Ram]

Yeah he's small. But if he's WIDE OPEN he's plenty big of a target! :shifty:

But, I won't argue the fact that he's a risk because of that size. But that size is also why he's so dynamic.

CGI, I've always found you to be very even keel. So I like when you post a response to one of my posts.

I like how you used the term "wide open" and went ALL CAPS with it. It allows me to go off on a tangent. The term "wide open" in the NFL doesn't exist unless one of two things happen.

#1. A Defender blows his assignment
or
#2. The Defender falls down

Unlike College Football on any given weekend where receivers are literally "Wide Open" because of schemes or the fact they are a better player than the defenders. So many scholarships are issued to offensive players due to the boom of the spread offense. Therefore Defenders are nowhere near as good as the offensive players in College Football anymore. Hence any given weekend of College Football we see so many 45-42, 41-38 type games that last nearly 4 hours.

Let's use the term "separation" with Austin. How much separation will a 5'8 WR with short arms get you? He's not going to be the over whelming best athlete on the field in the NFL. Players like him are role players, not starters. And role players should not be first round picks. Darren Sproles, Leon Washington, Dexter McCluster, T.Y. Hilton, and Devin Hester are all examples of role players. Or a term I like to use "gadget players." These are players that you can not use as 3 down players because of their size/abilities. You want these guys to touch the ball around 10 times a game between kick/punt returns, receptions, and rush attempts. But they all also have something in common. None were taken in the first round.

Austin has the kind of quickness to create separation and/or a breakdown in assignment... so yeah, I can see him getting wide open however you want to define that. To me; a smaller target in a bigger window.

It's going to be interesting to see where Austin's value is placed in round 1.

 

[CGI_Ram]

Yeah he's small. But if he's WIDE OPEN he's plenty big of a target! :shifty:

But, I won't argue the fact that he's a risk because of that size. But that size is also why he's so dynamic.

Well I don't know if it's his size that makes him dynamic as much as his open field quickness and speed. His size has been a concern for me from the start with regard to his staying healthy and available, but when in space, who can get a lick on him?.

That said, he brings amazing allusiveness and can scare the hell out of defenses trying to account for him. I see him as a role player and S.T. threat, something that the Rams sorely need. So for better or worse IMO, he's worth consideration and I'll let the soothe sayers ponder the negative possibilities in a rear view mirror.

Incidentally, I wonder how many have imagined this guy "popping" out from behind 6'6" O linemen at a full gallop. Yeah he's small and light, now let's see how defensive back fields deal with it. :boing:

His size concerns me as well.

I just think it's his size that allows him to be so darn quick and ellusive. Put another 20 lbs on the guy in weight or height and a good piece of that dynamic quickness goes away. He is what he is because he's built the way he is.