Talking Tutu (many of) you!

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FrantikRam

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That all goes out the window when you apply it to the Tutu/ Creed discussion. What would have been better to have? A great center or a receiver that maybe is the 5th or 6th pass catching option on the team?

Just because the Rams don’t put as high a value on Oline doesn’t mean they should ignore a chance to upgrade an interior line position. The plan at the time was to move a guard to center and plug in another guard who failed miserably twice before, into his spot. To me that says need. To a large portion of the fan base that says need. They clearly weren’t thinking Allen was a better option than Corbett. Otherwise there’s be no reason to plan on movie Corbett and bringing in Evans. They got lucky that Allen was outperforming Corbett at center. But that was a few months after the draft.

But here is where your argument falls apart. Team building is based on the salary cap. Of course when you have AD, Stafford, Ramsey, etc,… on the roster there is less money for other positions. But Humphries wasn’t a free agent. They wouldn’t have upset the delicate balance of not putting a lot of cap resources into the center position. He’s a rookie. He wouldn’t get 15 million a year. So it has nothing to do with the ‘how to build a team’ strategy that the Rams use. So why not upgrade a position instead of playing musical chairs? They’d have him for 4 years at the least and if he’s really good they’d get a third round comp pick for him once he leaves. They do that with a lot of players.

Now back to who they picked instead. If Atwell ended up being good in year one and pushing Woods, Kupp, Higbee, DeSean Jackson and Jefferson and taking snaps away from them then maybe it was an okay pick. But still a poor choice for their first pick where they could have addressed a need. The likelihood of a 150 5’9” receiver doing that is ridiculously low considering that there is no track record of it being done in the league. I agreed with PA about Adebo being a better pick. But I’ve said more than once that the pick didn’t have to be Humphries. The problem is there were more pressing needs and better players on the board. Atwell was a reach in round 2. That is the single biggest issue with the pick.

Here’s another issue. This concept on here that Snead is infallable. Nobody should be criticizing his decisions, because the Rams won the Super Bowl is silly. He’s made his share of mistakes in the past. He’s not infallable and fans can criticize him if he made a bad pick. Which he did. But for some reason there are a few people here that think they can tell others how they should think about that.

Regarding all of that of that other crap you were talking about, I believe you either jumped in late or just took it out of context. I know perfectly well what PA meant. But his argument was flawed. He said you don’t need a good center if you can win a Super Bowl with an average center. So I said you don’t need a good QB if you can win a Super Bowl with an average QB. Ask Nick Foles. The point was you can win with deficiencies at certain positions, but that doesn’t mean that a team shouldn’t upgrade those positions if the opportunity arises. The other point he said the Bengals made it to the Super Bowl with a bad Oline. They barely made it and if not for two poor plays by Tannehill they don’t get past the titans and if not for poor play by the Chiefs they don’t win that game either. If I proved his point using the Tannehill example, then I disproved it with the second example. The Chiefs have Mahomes, Kelce, and Hill and aside from the best center in the league their line stunk. I’m supposed to think that that is all you need right? A good QB and Weapons plus a shot Oline. But they lost.

This doesn’t apply to you but it does others, The whole concept of the Super Bowl being the measuring stick on team building. It’s dumb. One play here or there and different teams are in that game. A missed field goal, bad penalty, a dropped pass or dropped interception, whatever. The Niners with a bad QB could have been in that game. The Rams only won by three. They beat the Bucs by three. If the Rams steam rolled every team in the playoffs then maybe, but they didn’t. There is more than one way to build a team. The Niners for example beat the Rams 7 in a row with a different configuration. I disagree with you on the Titans. They easily could have been in the Super Bowl and are the team I wanted the Rams to face the least of all AFC playoff teams.

Either way I’m out of this argument. Think what you like. As far as I’m consider I’m right. You can’t make me think otherwise, especially by repeating some of the inane logic I’ve had thrown at me on this thread. You think what you want. I’ll think what I think.



Nah it's the sheer ignorance to deem any player a "bad pick" after one season.

We've been here before with the staunch defenders of our former QB. I was steadfast from day one and if I had been wrong, I'd have owned that shit.

But what did they do? Just ignore it. And it goes against the policies of this board to call people out on it, so we let it go.

Cool. Well, here we go again. If Tutu goes on to have a decent career, everyone bashing the pick will just pretend like they never bashed it.

We could go find many stories of players getting hurt their first season and going on to have a fine career. This is all in the service of wanting to be right and it's just sickening.

And of course the beautiful part is that they obviously looked at Humphrey and McVay said "no thanks". Coupled with the Rams having a top OL and elite pass protection it is flat out crazy how people are holding onto this.

Of course they're fallible. That goes without saying. But it does not yet mean they made a mistake with this pick.

People are getting confused because of our success with 3rd round picks - but 2nd rounders are not locks to contribute right away.
 

PARAM

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It's funny that in 2020 and 2021 Ramsnation collectively said, "we've gotta draft OL". They didn't except for Anchrum in the 7th.

Now this year, " we gotta draft Edge....we lost HOFer Von Miller". So what do they do? Draft OL with their first pick and take Edge in the 6th round.

I think the evidence is clear.....collectively Ramsnation doesn't have the scouting department and talent evaluators McSnead has.

So I just defer to the pros, the guys in charge, the people who see and know this roster up close and personal, as well as the scouts who work for them.

So far, the Rams without Creed Humphrey are 1-0 in the Superbowl. The Chiefs are 0-1 in the AFC Championship Game with him But as one fan told me, "we'll see how many titles Humphrey gets compared to Tutu". I'm sure he'll keep us abreast of the score.
 
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LOURam85

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Tutu starts in the slot with Kupp and Robinson on the outside with Van eating up some snaps to keep everyone fresh. Instead of resigning OBJ the Rams restructure either Kupp or AD or both and sign Clowney for 3 years.
Kupp is better in slot and is there majority of time wouldn’t be as effective on outside
 

Elmgrovegnome

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Nah it's the sheer ignorance to deem any player a "bad pick" after one season.

We've been here before with the staunch defenders of our former QB. I was steadfast from day one and if I had been wrong, I'd have owned that shit.

But what did they do? Just ignore it. And it goes against the policies of this board to call people out on it, so we let it go.

Cool. Well, here we go again. If Tutu goes on to have a decent career, everyone bashing the pick will just pretend like they never bashed it.

We could go find many stories of players getting hurt their first season and going on to have a fine career. This is all in the service of wanting to be right and it's just sickening.

And of course the beautiful part is that they obviously looked at Humphrey and McVay said "no thanks". Coupled with the Rams having a top OL and elite pass protection it is flat out crazy how people are holding onto this.

Of course they're fallible. That goes without saying. But it does not yet mean they made a mistake with this pick.

People are getting confused because of our success with 3rd round picks - but 2nd rounders are not locks to contribute right away.
Who would Tutu have taken snaps from? How many players his size have ever been successful in the NFL? And haven’t we seen Rams picks look like obvious busts after a year? I did.

It just feels like another Trung Canidate. A toy for the coach, while better players at other positions that could be addressed were still in the board. Watching Tutu last year, the pick really looks like a dud.

Even if he plays decent who will he takes snaps from this year? Van Jefferson? OBJ? (assuming he’s signed) Allen Robinson? Higbee? RBs? Keep in mind that it’s a second round pick. This is an important pick that has a good chance of producing starters. Maybe they should have drafted another QB in round two even though they just traded for Stafford.

Even in the unlikely case that Tutu pans out and ends up being a decent receiver it’s still a very odd pick that is not so difficult to understand why people don’t like it.
 

FrantikRam

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Who would Tutu have taken snaps from? How many players his size have ever been successful in the NFL? And haven’t we seen Rams picks look like obvious busts after a year? I did.

It just feels like another Trung Canidate. A toy for the coach, while better players at other positions that could be addressed were still in the board. Watching Tutu last year, the pick really looks like a dud.

Even if he plays decent who will he takes snaps from this year? Van Jefferson? OBJ? (assuming he’s signed) Allen Robinson? Higbee? RBs? Keep in mind that it’s a second round pick. This is an important pick that has a good chance of producing starters. Maybe they should have drafted another QB in round two even though they just traded for Stafford.

Even in the unlikely case that Tutu pans out and ends up being a decent receiver it’s still a very odd pick that is not so difficult to understand why people don’t like it.


That last line makes absolutely zero sense. We were down to no depth at WR in the Super Bowl. Drafting a WR made perfect sense. So if he ends up being a decent receiver, the pick is a homerun.

The critique of the pick would make more sense to me if it didn't go hand in hand with all the Creed Humphrey nonsense. The mental aspect of playing center is critical, so people who think that we automatically still win the Super Bowl with Humphrey over Allen is asinine. No other word for it.
 

Elmgrovegnome

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That last line makes absolutely zero sense. We were down to no depth at WR in the Super Bowl. Drafting a WR made perfect sense. So if he ends up being a decent receiver, the pick is a homerun.

The critique of the pick would make more sense to me if it didn't go hand in hand with all the Creed Humphrey nonsense. The mental aspect of playing center is critical, so people who think that we automatically still win the Super Bowl with Humphrey over Allen is asinine. No other word for it.
Well then direct it at people who only focus on Humphrey. I’ve repeatedly said there were several other players on the board that would have been better picks.

At the time of the pick Woods was healthy. They had three good receivers. It wasn’t a huge need. Plus their would be back up level receivers cut by teams or available in trade if absolutely needed.

If you like the Tutu pick then yippee for you. I don’t like it and you can’t change my mind. The only person that can change my mind is Tutu himself. I’m not going to hold my breath.
 

FrantikRam

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Well then direct it at people who only focus on Humphrey. I’ve repeatedly said there were several other players on the board that would have been better picks.

At the time of the pick Woods was healthy. They had three good receivers. It wasn’t a huge need. Plus their would be back up level receivers cut by teams or available in trade if absolutely needed.

If you like the Tutu pick then yippee for you. I don’t like it and you can’t change my mind. The only person that can change my mind is Tutu himself. I’m not going to hold my breath.


Ah but see that's the issue, I don't think he can. I think he could have a 1200 yard and 8 TD season and I don't think you (or others) would admit you were wrong on the subject.

And declaring there were better picks when all these guys are ONE year into their careers is laughable.
 

payote75

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We still don't know what tutu is. Got to see him participate and play with some first teamers. I still think he has some Tyreek in him. I wasn't happy with the pick either still am not but I watch his highlights over and over and I see a lot of hill he isn't just a gadget guy while he does have a small radius he gets enough separation that he is mostly open. He can avoid hits and runs decent routes not a one trick pony. All that said best ability is availability.

Jury still out but not ready to call him a bust just yet. Many thought noteboom was a bust or terrible.....same on Allen....Havenstein....Goff even. So I'm actually excited to keep an eye on him but want Obj back badly regardless. Lol
 

Elmgrovegnome

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Ah but see that's the issue, I don't think he can. I think he could have a 1200 yard and 8 TD season and I don't think you (or others) would admit you were wrong on the subject.

And declaring there were better picks when all these guys are ONE year into their careers is laughable.
Humphries proved it in year one. Best center in the league. Laugh at that. Remind me never to read any of your mock drafts. :laugh4:
 

PARAM

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The Atwell pick could turn out to be a bust. So what? All that would prove is the Rams approach is more than just the draft. The DJax signing was a bust. Atwell couldn't get on the field. Robert Woods went down. We didn't have Creed Humphrey. And we still won the Superbowl! This year we won't have DJax, Woods or Humphrey but we will have Tutu, so if we don't repeat, we can blame Tutu, Snead and McVay!!!
 

FrantikRam

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Humphries proved it in year one. Best center in the league. Laugh at that. Remind me never to read any of your mock drafts. :laugh4:


Plenty of rookies that have torn it up in year one (RG3 being a great example) - it doesn't guarantee anything. And we won the Super Bowl with the center that McVay chose.

And it's Humphrey. Not Humphries.

I probably would have mocked Humphrey over Tutu at the time. I just realize that it takes time to evaluate players and that declaring a player - especially a second round pick - a bust after one season makes no sense.
 

Ram Ts

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What was odd to me was drafting tutu when you just signed DJax. They must have planned for tutu to sit and learn for a year. Certainly you don’t have those two playing at the same time - even more so when you have Kupp & Woods. So I’m giving tutu another year or even two - to see what McVay can do with this toy in his offense.
 

TheTackle

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That last line makes absolutely zero sense. We were down to no depth at WR in the Super Bowl. Drafting a WR made perfect sense. So if he ends up being a decent receiver, the pick is a homerun.

The critique of the pick would make more sense to me if it didn't go hand in hand with all the Creed Humphrey nonsense. The mental aspect of playing center is critical, so people who think that we automatically still win the Super Bowl with Humphrey over Allen is asinine. No other word for it.
Did Brian Allen go to the pro-bowl? One thing is now clearer, Allen is a very good center in the mold of Sullivan.

I wanted Humphrey and called it out long before we picked. But on balance, with the benefit of hindsight, we already had a top tier center who is dedicated to his craft on the squad

I personally hated the Tavon Austin trade-up and pick. I wanted Hopkins and argued we should trade back but no later than the Texans and that he would be a no 1 WR who would excel against zone and man coverage. I was a lonely voice that year and others argued he would be nothing more than a slot and possession receiver. When it goes the other way, and people were proved wrong, they tend to forget in a hurry

In his first year in McVay's offense, Austin provided a spark and his movement across the face of the defense had defenses adjusting which made it easier for Goff to read the defensive scheme. Austin wasn't great, but he was useful. Tutu, in my opinion, could prove deadly in the same role because he is a better WR than Austin. Even though he is not such a threat to run the jet sweep he will be incredibly difficult to cover when already in motion. I guess this was the thinking and now we will have to see if Coen and McVay scheme things so that he gets his shots
 
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So Ram

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Did Brian Allen go to the pro-bowl? One thing is now clearer, Allen is a very good center in the mold of Sullivan.

I wanted Humphrey and called it out long before we picked. But on balance, with the benefit of hindsight, we already had a top tier center who is dedicated to his craft on the squad

I personally hated the Tavon Austin trade-up and pick. I wanted Hopkins and argued we should trade back but no later than the Texans and that he would be a no 1 WR who would excel against zone and man coverage. I was a lonely voice that year and others argued he would be nothing more than a slot and possession receiver. When it goes the other way, and people were proved wrong, they tend to forget in a hurry

In his first year in McVay's offense, Austin provided a spark and his movement across the face of the defense had defenses adjusting which made it easier for Goff to read the defensive scheme. Austin wasn't great, but he was useful. Tutu, in my opinion, could prove deadly in the same role because he is a better WR than Austin. Even though he is not such a threat to run the jet sweep he will be incredibly difficult to cover when already in motion. I guess this was the thinking and now we will have to see if Coen and McVay scheme things so that he gets his shots
You sound less ie me.

The Brian Allen thing though & center position is different in only the sense of a NEW O”Line coach coming in.I was never one to blame Brian Allen for hurting Noteboom.So when you go down W/ John Sullivan you have to know Austin Blythe pushed Brian Allen as well.Plus Mcvay F”d that up which was why The Rams(1 reason) The Rams didn’t make the playoffs.Never liked the Brian Allen draft pick either.

—Point being I look at more of the good than the bad.Brian Allen was apart of The Rams SuperBowl run in 2018.He learned under Blythe & Sullivan. Why The Rams didn’t get (sign) a veteran RG & cut Sullivan was KNUTtS .
Back to Allen coming off injury & playing backup RG with Bobby Evans imo was crazy when you have a young player like Creed innthe draft you draft Tutu ? Brian Allen when drafted by The Rams was a surplus at center.
Creed was a pure center & Allen was a 3rd string center at the time.Austin Corbett is a guard not a center,but NOW he is the starter?

—Things are where they are,but the logic blows my mind sometimes.Truth is Brian Allen worked for his spot at center.Coleman Shelton has worked hard & is a solid swing guy right now.
Once again Noteboom,Allen,Shelton signing makes the Tutu Atwell draft pick good.

The Hopkins thing is on another scale.If his mid is right the skill is there.He wanted out & didn’t get his way.He got his chance in the SuperBowl.Will be interesting to see his progression
 

Elmgrovegnome

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Plenty of rookies that have torn it up in year one (RG3 being a great example) - it doesn't guarantee anything. And we won the Super Bowl with the center that McVay chose.

And it's Humphrey. Not Humphries.

I probably would have mocked Humphrey over Tutu at the time. I just realize that it takes time to evaluate players and that declaring a player - especially a second round pick - a bust after one season makes no sense.
The Buccaneers won a Super Bowl with Trent Dilfer. It doesn’t mean he was that good. The Eagles did it with Foles. Allen was okay. He wasn’t a league leader. I still don’t think he was as good as people like to think. He didn’t get offered a huge deal by another team. You could have a bad player at one position and win the Super Bowl.

But back to Tutu. If you think a 150 lb 5’-9” Receiver can be successful in the NFL, that’s your evaluation not mine. That’s where I don’t get people arguing about it. To make it worse he needs to be good enough to live up to the pick. If Snead picked him in round 5-6 nobody would be having this discussion. Many Rams fans aren’t even happy with Van Jefferson’s negative traits. Can Tutu play as well as him? I don’t believe a 150 lb receiver can succeed in the NFL. I don’t know how anyone could think that.
 

PARAM

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What I don't get is how difficult it is for Creed fans to realize the Rams didn't need a C. What's even more strange is, Creed wasn't even the next C drafted. Josh Meyers went before him. I know the retort to that is, "it didn't have to be a C. There were other positions available there."

Ossai or Basham at Edge? Werner or Bolton at LB? A different WR? Etc. Etc. So maybe we take one of the Edge guys and never see a need for Von Miller. Of course we still would have won the Superbowl. Or one of those LBs. Of course we still would have signed Bobby Wagner this year. Or a different WR so OBJ goes to Green Bay instead of L.A.? That wouldn't have changed anything in the 2021 postseason!

Sometimes the best moves you make are the ones you don't make. Even if you don't know it at the time. But why spoil all those efforts by fans who had Creed on their big board and want to show everybody they're smarter than the Rams braintrust?
 
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Tano

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It's that he is 57 155 that I am annoyed at.

He is not big enough to withstand the punishment.

One really bad hit and he was out for the year with a shoulder injury.

I do not see him lasting longer than 5 games any year with that physique.

Same issue I have with Kyler Murray - 8 games and he is done.
 

El Chapo Jr

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What I don't get is how difficult it is for Creed fans to realize the Rams didn't need a C. What's even more strange is, Creed wasn't even the next C drafted. Josh Meyers went before him. I know the retort to that is, "it didn't have to be a C. There were other positions available there."

Ossai or Basham at Edge? Werner or Bolton at LB? A different WR? Etc. Etc. So maybe we take one of the Edge guys and never see a need for Von Miller. Of course we still would have won the Superbowl. Or one of those LBs. Of course we still would have signed Bobby Wagner this year. Or a different WR so OBJ goes to Green Bay instead of L.A.? That wouldn't have changed anything in the 2021 postseason!

Sometimes the best moves you make are the ones you don't make. Even if you don't know it at the time. But why spoil all those efforts by fans who had Creed on their big board and want to show everybody they're smarter than the Rams braintrust?
Tutu sucks so far. Very possible Rams FO fucked up the pick but no one bats 100. Our FO more often than not does well and that's what counts. Also doesn't matter if a position is considered a need or not because if they bust, fans and the team suffer regardless. So far not so good on the Tutu front but we shall see what happens when the time comes.
 

El Chapo Jr

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What I don't get is how difficult it is for Creed fans to realize the Rams didn't need a C. What's even more strange is, Creed wasn't even the next C drafted. Josh Meyers went before him. I know the retort to that is, "it didn't have to be a C. There were other positions available there."

Ossai or Basham at Edge? Werner or Bolton at LB? A different WR? Etc. Etc. So maybe we take one of the Edge guys and never see a need for Von Miller. Of course we still would have won the Superbowl. Or one of those LBs. Of course we still would have signed Bobby Wagner this year. Or a different WR so OBJ goes to Green Bay instead of L.A.? That wouldn't have changed anything in the 2021 postseason!

Sometimes the best moves you make are the ones you don't make. Even if you don't know it at the time. But why spoil all those efforts by fans who had Creed on their big board and want to show everybody they're smarter than the Rams braintrust?
Tutu sucks so far. Very possible Rams FO fucked up the pick but no one bats 100. Our FO more often than not does well and that's what counts. Also doesn't matter if a position is considered a need or not because if they bust, fans and the team suffer regardless. So far not so good on the Tutu front but we shall see what happens when the time comes. Lastly, a FO will always be criticized for misses (at least by me rightfully so) but I'll take this FO over any.