Take the Sam's last chance talk somewhere else

[ramsince62]

I didn't say you were anti-Bradford, I'm just curious who you've seen do more with less. Bradford's been with the Rams since 2010 and since 2009, their offense has been pretty anemic and IMO, not laden with talent(that can stay on the field anyway).

You seem to be hung up on his contract so I think I have an idea about your POV. I don't agree with it, especially if your concerns are return on investment. I mean, if you think that Bradford hasn't been "worth the money" then we're looking at this from very different angles. No matter what Bradford did, he wouldn't be worth the investment so there's really no conversation there. That's why they changed how they pay rookies. None of them were ever worth it.

Moklerman, I hope I'm not "hung up on anything" and to be honest, you really don't know my POV as my opinions and argument are based upon the narrow view of "return on investment." And if you don't think that matters, well (that's) a different subject indeed., I just happen to believe that the pick position and money paid to Bradford has done him a disservice. First, in setting too high an expectation based upon both his 1st selection and that HUGE salary. IMO, unearned and potentially wasted on a single player and one that never really played much following his sophomore year in college until he was cast as the starting QB at the end of his first training camp.....and as we well understood and expressed, less than optimal circumstances.

Second, I am sensitive to actual results over hype!

As far as giving you the examples you ask....what would be the point? All we'd do is debate the roster and circumstances at the time. No disrespect intended, just my way of answering your inquiry without altering or distorting the subject post..

 

[Boffo97]

First, in setting too high an expectation based upon both his 1st selection and that HUGE salary. IMO, unearned and potentially wasted on a single player and one that never really played much following his sophomore year in college until he was cast as the starting QB at the end of his first training camp.....and as we well understood and expressed, less than optimal circumstances.

He earned that salary by being the 1st pick in the last draft before the rookie slotting system. Period.

Whoever we picked was going to make that kind of salary.

Which makes arguing about his salary irrelevant. It's not like the Rams were dumb and could have given him vet's minimum.

 

[OnceARam]

Sorry for the name calling. Didn't think apologists was bad. Won't happen again. Same goes for someone accusing me of being a hawks fan right?

As to the legitimacy of the article, Tanier is spot on. Yes, he was negative towards the Rams. However, if you have watched Bradford there is no other conclusion to be drawn other than up until this point he was been bad. That isn't to say he will stay that way and that isn't to say that he isn't a product of his environment (OC, offensive talent, etc...) But to name call and denounce Tanier's argument with nothing more than name calling or pointing to some irrelevant fact is what is known as ad hominem.

He supports his argument with facts:






I fully understand that Bradford hasn't been surrounded with top-tier talent. However, to naysay any fact based argument showing Bradford's weaknesses can't be cast side just because it's negative. Also, since when are fans not allowed to be negative? I pay money to see games, own jerseys and what not and will be critical of the teams I root for when I feel they are failing.

EDIT: Also, I haven't disliked anyone's post. I'm sure there is a way a mod can confirm that.

I agree with your overall point.

You have to be careful on this board when talking about Bradford. Be especially careful with bringing up controversial subjects like QBR or YPA. Math and Bradford make strange bedfellows.

I would be shocked and deeply troubled if we don't draft a QB high in this years draft.

 

[Boffo97]

I agree with your overall point.

You have to be careful on this board when talking about Bradford. Be especially careful with bringing up controversial subjects like QBR or YPA. Math and Bradford make strange bedfellows.

I would be shocked and deeply troubled if we don't draft a QB high in this years draft.

First off, QBR (if you're talking about the ESPN "stat") is made up garbage that has no place in serious football discussion.

Beyond that, it's just a matter that if you throw someone away because of end results without considering what else was going on, you run a serious risk of downgrading while the asset you threw away goes on to a lot of success elsewhere.

I'd be shocked and deeply troubled if we drafted a QB before the fourth round. Maybe third if a 1st round rated QB who is not named Manziel slips that low.

 

[OnceARam]

First off, QBR (if you're talking about the ESPN "stat") is made up garbage that has no place in serious football discussion.

Beyond that, it's just a matter that if you throw someone away because of end results without considering what else was going on, you run a serious risk of downgrading while the asset you threw away goes on to a lot of success elsewhere.

I'd be shocked and deeply troubled if we drafted a QB before the fourth round. Maybe third if a 1st round rated QB who is not named Manziel slips that low.

Ha! I knew someone would bite on QBR. But, and in keeping with my own advice, I'm not even going to get into it.

You don't want Manziel?! He's the best QB to have never taken a NFL snap.

 

[bluecoconuts]

QBR says that Tebow is one of the better QBs. That's all I have to say about that.

 

[moklerman]

Moklerman, I hope I'm not "hung up on anything" and to be honest, you really don't know my POV as my opinions and argument are based upon the narrow view of "return on investment." And if you don't think that matters, well (that's) a different subject indeed., I just happen to believe that the pick position and money paid to Bradford has done him a disservice. First, in setting too high an expectation based upon both his 1st selection and that HUGE salary. IMO, unearned and potentially wasted on a single player and one that never really played much following his sophomore year in college until he was cast as the starting QB at the end of his first training camp.....and as we well understood and expressed, less than optimal circumstances.

Second, I am sensitive to actual results over hype!

As far as giving you the examples you ask....what would be the point? All we'd do is debate the roster and circumstances at the time. No disrespect intended, just my way of answering your inquiry without altering or distorting the subject post..

The point, whether I agree with it or not, is to establish your frame of reference. I happen to think recent Rams teams and the circumstances Bradford has played under have been one of the worst situations a QB has had to deal with, much less a #1 overall QB. Alex Smith compares but I think he had a better overall team. He certainly didn't outperform Bradford though.

As far as Bradford not playing much after his sophomore season, that's true. But he did put in two full season and part of another before he got hurt so it isn't like, say Mark Sanchez who didn't have much film available. But how was Bradford "cast" as the starter? The Rams did not intend to play him right away. A.J. Feeley got hurt in the preseason and changed their plans. Feeley was going to hold the reigns so they could ease Bradford into the starters role. He was coming off that shoulder injury and hadn't played much so they got Feeley because of the Spagnuolo/Philly connection.

 

[Boffo97]

Ha! I knew someone would bite on QBR. But, and in keeping with my own advice, I'm not even going to get into it.

It's worth noting that it's garbage any time it has even a chance of coming up. You can tell by eliminating Bradford from the analysis and showing that it ends up calling QB X better than QB Y when that's contrary to all common sense.

You don't want Manziel?! He's the best QB to have never taken a NFL snap.

I don't think his game is going to translate to this level. Biggest total bust potential in the draft IMO.

 

[-X-]

It's worth noting that it's garbage any time it has even a chance of coming up. You can tell by eliminating Bradford from the analysis and showing that it ends up calling QB X better than QB Y when that's contrary to all common sense.

Wait just a darn minute. You're telling me that Josh McCown ISN'T the best QB in the NFL?

http://espn.go.com/nfl/qbr

Hogwash.

 

[RamFan503]

Wait just a darn minute. You're telling me that Josh McCown ISN'T the best QB in the NFL?

http://espn.go.com/nfl/qbr

Hogwash.

Josh's mom objects to your tone.

 

[moklerman]

Wait just a darn minute. You're telling me that Josh McCown ISN'T the best QB in the NFL?

http://espn.go.com/nfl/qbr

Hogwash.

Didn't Kaepernick throw two picks week 1 and still have a higher QBR than Peyton's 7TD/0INT performance?

 

[RamFan503]

Didn't Kaepernick throw two picks week 1 and still have a higher QBR than Peyton's 7TD/0INT performance?

You dare challenge a rating designed around the CK/RW index?

 

[Mojo Ram]

QBR says that Tebow is one of the better QBs. That's all I have to say about that.

 

[OnceARam]

Yes! QBR is just Voodoo maths! Voo-Dooooooo...

 

[Stranger]

Yes, I deem this topic be relegated to ROD Purgatory, as soon as the ROD gods heed to my requests to make it so.

 

[blackbart]

Yes, I deem this topic be relegated to ROD Purgatory, as soon as the ROD gods heed to my requests to make it so.

Whattopic?? We got 6 pages out of this :rockon:

 

[#jetlife]

No worries, Brother! Opinions are what make this place run. I, personally, do not agree with the article and did not like the viewpoint from which it was written (seemed to me more like the author had an axe to grind rather than objective reporting) but that's just my opinion.

Welcome to ROD!

Thats why the Rams need to take Sammy Watkins and an offensive lineman. Give Bradford one more year as "the MAN" and maybe take Murray, McCarron or Mettenberger later as insurance.

 

[oldramfan]

seriously?

sam was drafted by a team that had gone 3-13, 2-14, 1-15 the three years previous. probably one of the worst teams in nfl history.

as a rookie sam led the rams to 7 wins. would have been 8 wins and the playoffs if not for a couple of bonehead plays by gibson against the whiners.

2011 was a cluster freak of massive proportions. sam went so far backwards that season, lucky not to be scarred for life.

2012 was a re-establishment year for him. that's all that could be expected from him after 2011, just head in the right direction.

2013 was supposed to be his breakout year and things were looking good until he got hurt.

not sure what more you expect.

.

I will continue to say this in response to Sam's fans; he doesn't win. Most of his stats came in garbage time. I could list the negative points in Sam's game but that would be unnecessary. Sam is supposed to be an elite talent, but what do we as a team have to show for his 4 years in St Louis? Nothing.... Look I appreciate your wanting to be positive. I want that too but am forced to see Sam for what he is.....average at best. I hope I'm wrong, I hope he kills it this year, I hope we go to the playoffs because we should. No more excuses from anyone on the team, we have the talent, coaching and ownership we need to be successful. So my final thoughts in this thread are simple, let's win and after my apology for doubting Sam, we can move on to bigger and better things. If Sam dogs it or gets injured again, I hope to hear from you in return.

 

[Stranger]

this is starting to sound like the John Elway debates I used to hear, or even the Peyton Manning ones.

 

[kurtfaulk]

I will continue to say this in response to Sam's fans; he doesn't win. Most of his stats came in garbage time. I could list the negative points in Sam's game but that would be unnecessary. Sam is supposed to be an elite talent, but what do we as a team have to show for his 4 years in St Louis? Nothing.... Look I appreciate your wanting to be positive. I want that too but am forced to see Sam for what he is.....average at best. I hope I'm wrong, I hope he kills it this year, I hope we go to the playoffs because we should. No more excuses from anyone on the team, we have the talent, coaching and ownership we need to be successful. So my final thoughts in this thread are simple, let's win and after my apology for doubting Sam, we can move on to bigger and better things. If Sam dogs it or gets injured again, I hope to hear from you in return.

we all want the rams to win.

but if you can't see what sam has been up against in his short, unfulfilled career then i



.