Spygate 2.0? (Reopened after cleaning - please let it stay unlocked)

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coconut

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coconut
There was a bit of a scandal with all the fly-bys and other things the DoD was paying for. The NFL had to return a fair bit of money when people learned that the DoD was paying the NFL to do things that any other business would have to pay the DoD a huge sum for.

But yeah, the military really went all in with Active Duty color guards (which wasn't always the case as in the past, veterans and reserve/nat guard units would do it), fly-bys including coordination with the stadium so that the fly-by could coincide with the timing of the end of the National Anthem as well as the release of fireworks, etc and other stuff.

So it wasn't so much ad revenue as stuff they got for free as well as getting the DoD to pay for the privilege to do things that they ordinarily charged a lot of money to do.

I have no information regarding if the NFL events impacted readiness to any significant degree or if it just increased logistical overhead.
I too doubt there was any issue regarding readiness impact. You're right about the color guards and fly bys. Remember the surprise family reunion period? Remember the proliferation of recruitment ads that continued for years and persisted well after the exploitation of Tillman's death? It really had a scripted feel to it.
 

Mackeyser

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Yeah, I just watched that.

I thought he was generous to a fault.

If the NFL doesn't punish the Pats, I'd recommend that Kroenke does what I suggested which is to have a business he is affiliated with (but doesn't own) essentially launder money to players.

Why not? If the NFL doesn't take the rules seriously, then at that point, it's a dereliction of duty to not violate the spirit of the rules (I threw up a little in my mouth typing that).

It's like adhering to the Marquess of Queensbury in a No Holds Barred, bareknuckle fight.

Thing is that we're led to believe that there are rules, but as NE keeps finding out, that's a dubious assertion.

Oh sure, there are TONS of rules for players, coaches, fans, etc, but the rules regarding organizations get awfully fuzzy.

ALL personnel in pro football including owners are supposed to be subject to the same "protect the shield" behavior clauses.

But, we saw with Jim Irsay that even when an owner is found with guns and drugs in his car that... well... the rules don't apply to owners. Kraft got caught up in that massage parlor sex trafficking ring... was there any repercussion? I don't think so. I could be wrong, but I pretty much think they stalled until no one cared anymore...well, until almost no one cared anymore and then let the few who did be blasted by the core group of fans who just want to deal with the game and have tremendous antipathy for anything besides the game.

I get that and I'm sometimes in that camp, so I can relate.

Well, except for this cheating, bullshit.

We say that the Rams beat the Seahawks on Sunday based on the score. And we did.

However, as we see every Sunday, we know that games are massively influenced by the ref crew. Do they call certain types of holds more than others? Do they not like to call tons of holding. Do they like to call obscure calls? Do they prefer to let plays go and let replay sort it out or are they quick on the whistle? Do they always seem to call back big plays? Does that only tend to happen to one team in that game?

Just tons of questions that let everyone know that records during the regular season are of dubious integrity because while there are 256 regular season games, there aren't 256 nearly identical contests. It's worse than baseball now insofar as each week, it can be argued that catering a game plan based on how the officials tend to call games can have as much effect as game planning for the opposing team. So, when three teams are sitting at 8-5, say... what does that even mean?

We really don't have the foggiest clue which is the better team. You could easily have one team be significantly better than the other two and healthier, but just get caught with crews who defeat them with calls that another crew wouldn't.

Example: how many times when we had Robert Quinn did we complain that they NEVER called holding when he did that rip and dip move? Not even when the OL would clothesline him? And yet, in other games, doing the EXACT same thing, another guy would get the call...a LOT. And we all know if they'd called Quinn the same as those other guys, the sheer number of holding calls would have changed a ton of down and distance situations and potentially the outcome of games. And that's just ONE instance that we can all pretty much agree on. There are many thousands of others.

I'd rather the game truly be about the contest with uniform rules and those rules uniformly enforced within a game and throughout the season across all contests including the post-season. That way we can be assured that the best team won...as best as can be determined in a violent sport with an oblong ball, anyway...

But, if the NFL decides that "if you ain't cheatin', you ain't tryin'" is the new way of doing things... then sadly, that's how it's gonna need to be done.

I'm hoping and praying that they do the right thing.
 

CGI_Ram

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Illegal Patriots video reportedly shows Bengals coaching signals, cameraman wanted to delete footage

Although the New England Patriots have admitted that they violated an NFLrule on Sunday when they illegally filmed the field during the Bengals-Browns game, one thing that's still unclear is what exactly the illegal footage shows.

On the Patriots' end, they're insisting that the video from the game is harmless, and that it simply shows a behind-the-scenes look at what it's like to be an advance scout in the NFL, and that the footage was taken by a video crew of independent contractors who violated league policy because they simply weren't aware of NFL rules. However, people who have actually seen the video are painting a much different picture.

According to NFL.com, the footage shows coaches signaling on the Bengalssideline. According to The Athletic, the eight-minute video shows a "direct view" of the Bengals sideline and keeps its focus there the entire time, which seems to contradict what the Patriots said in their statement. Although New England admitted that the team's video crew "inappropriately filmed the field from the press box," the Patriots also added that "the sole purpose of the filming was to provide an illustration of an advance scout at work on the road."

If that was the sole purpose of the video, it's hard to imagine why they would need eight straight minutes of film from the Bengals sideline. If they were making a documentary like they said, they could have simply asked the Bengals to shoot the footage for them. Instead, they kept both the Bengals AND the NFL out of the loop when they made the decision to shoot the video.

If you're wondering how a sideline video could potentially help the Patriots, it's pretty simple. Although most communication in the NFL is now electronic, one advantage of filming a team's sideline is that the Patriots could see what kind of hand signals the Bengals use to make audibles. Plenty of teams still use hand signals to make adjustments on defense or to call audibles on offense.

One other interesting fact from the incident is that the one member of the Patriots video crew actually tried to get rid of the video. According to ESPN.com, the cameraman who took the video for the Patriots asked NFL security if he could delete the footage and have the whole situation be forgotten, but instead, the league ended up confiscating the video. As things currently stand, the league and the Bengals are the only two entities with a copy of the video.

After being asked about the situation on Monday, Patriots coach Bill Belichick was asked about it once again during a conference call on Tuesday morning and he didn't really have much to add.

"I don't have anything to do with this at all, whatsoever. Whatever is going on between the people involved in it and the league and all that, it's not a football issue in any way shape or form," Belichick said, via The Cincinnati Enquirer. "I have no involvement. I don't know anything about this."

The problem for Belichick is that it could soon turn into a football issue, because there's a possibility that the Patriots could be punished by the league. As things stand right now, the NFL has yet to comment on the issue and it's still not clear if the Patriots will be facing any potential punishment for their actions.

One thing that won't be working in New England's favor is the team's track record. Back in 2007, Belichick was fined $500,000 -- the largest fine ever imposed on a coach in league history -- for the part he played in Spygate. As a team, not only were the Patriots hit with a $250,000 fine, but they were also docked their first-round pick in 2008.

One aspect of the Spygate investigation that's similar to what's happening now is that the Patriots videographers were encouraged to have an excuse ready if they were ever caught filming another team.


View: https://twitter.com/johnbreech/status/1204146996430417923


From a 2015 ESPN article on Spygate, "The videographers also were provided with excuses for what to tell NFL security if asked what they were doing: Tell them you're filming the quarterbacks. Or the kickers. Or footage for a team show."

At best, it's just a pure coincidence that the the Patriots are using the same excuse now that they encouraged their videographers to use more than a decade ago. At worst, it's a red flag that the NFL would likely take into account if they decide to punish the Patriots as a team that already has multiple offenses against league policy.
 

rams1fan

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This "documentary" is completely under the Patriots control. You cannot label it as "camera men outside of our control" when clearly the Patriots at worst had to grant access to these people. Sorry but when a team in the past orchestrated a complete violation of the rules they should have taken better steps to ensure that a repeat did not occur. The past fine did not teach them. Fine them again.
 

LesBaker

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There was a bit of a scandal with all the fly-bys and other things the DoD was paying for. The NFL had to return a fair bit of money when people learned that the DoD was paying the NFL to do things that any other business would have to pay the DoD a huge sum for.

I didn't hear about the NFL giving money back. When was that? I thought they had a new contract.



Illegal Patriots video reportedly shows Bengals coaching signals, cameraman wanted to delete footage

Although the New England Patriots have admitted that they violated an NFLrule on Sunday when they illegally filmed the field during the Bengals-Browns game, one thing that's still unclear is what exactly the illegal footage shows.

On the Patriots' end, they're insisting that the video from the game is harmless, and that it simply shows a behind-the-scenes look at what it's like to be an advance scout in the NFL, and that the footage was taken by a video crew of independent contractors who violated league policy because they simply weren't aware of NFL rules. However, people who have actually seen the video are painting a much different picture.

According to NFL.com, the footage shows coaches signaling on the Bengalssideline. According to The Athletic, the eight-minute video shows a "direct view" of the Bengals sideline and keeps its focus there the entire time, which seems to contradict what the Patriots said in their statement. Although New England admitted that the team's video crew "inappropriately filmed the field from the press box," the Patriots also added that "the sole purpose of the filming was to provide an illustration of an advance scout at work on the road."

If that was the sole purpose of the video, it's hard to imagine why they would need eight straight minutes of film from the Bengals sideline. If they were making a documentary like they said, they could have simply asked the Bengals to shoot the footage for them. Instead, they kept both the Bengals AND the NFL out of the loop when they made the decision to shoot the video.

If you're wondering how a sideline video could potentially help the Patriots, it's pretty simple. Although most communication in the NFL is now electronic, one advantage of filming a team's sideline is that the Patriots could see what kind of hand signals the Bengals use to make audibles. Plenty of teams still use hand signals to make adjustments on defense or to call audibles on offense.

One other interesting fact from the incident is that the one member of the Patriots video crew actually tried to get rid of the video. According to ESPN.com, the cameraman who took the video for the Patriots asked NFL security if he could delete the footage and have the whole situation be forgotten, but instead, the league ended up confiscating the video. As things currently stand, the league and the Bengals are the only two entities with a copy of the video.

After being asked about the situation on Monday, Patriots coach Bill Belichick was asked about it once again during a conference call on Tuesday morning and he didn't really have much to add.

"I don't have anything to do with this at all, whatsoever. Whatever is going on between the people involved in it and the league and all that, it's not a football issue in any way shape or form," Belichick said, via The Cincinnati Enquirer. "I have no involvement. I don't know anything about this."

The problem for Belichick is that it could soon turn into a football issue, because there's a possibility that the Patriots could be punished by the league. As things stand right now, the NFL has yet to comment on the issue and it's still not clear if the Patriots will be facing any potential punishment for their actions.

One thing that won't be working in New England's favor is the team's track record. Back in 2007, Belichick was fined $500,000 -- the largest fine ever imposed on a coach in league history -- for the part he played in Spygate. As a team, not only were the Patriots hit with a $250,000 fine, but they were also docked their first-round pick in 2008.

One aspect of the Spygate investigation that's similar to what's happening now is that the Patriots videographers were encouraged to have an excuse ready if they were ever caught filming another team.


View: https://twitter.com/johnbreech/status/1204146996430417923


From a 2015 ESPN article on Spygate, "The videographers also were provided with excuses for what to tell NFL security if asked what they were doing: Tell them you're filming the quarterbacks. Or the kickers. Or footage for a team show."

At best, it's just a pure coincidence that the the Patriots are using the same excuse now that they encouraged their videographers to use more than a decade ago. At worst, it's a red flag that the NFL would likely take into account if they decide to punish the Patriots as a team that already has multiple offenses against league policy.


Independent contractors? So the people filming weren't the Patriots video crew?
 

kurtfaulk

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Independent contractors? So the people filming weren't the Patriots video crew?

no they just filmed whatever the cheats paid them to film. which was the bengals coaching staff using signals to their players.

unless you believe they filmed them just for the heck of it?

.
 

coconut

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no they just filmed whatever the cheats paid them to film. which was the bengals coaching staff using signals to their players.

unless you believe they filmed them just for the heck of it?

.
I believe the Patriots are being truthful. The 8 minutes videotaping the Bengals sideline is what their advance scouts do.
 

T-REX

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A never been seen before look at the secret warehouse the NFL stores Patriots cheating evidence.
1576072874688.png
 

Zaphod

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Illegal Patriots video reportedly shows Bengals coaching signals, cameraman wanted to delete footage

Although the New England Patriots have admitted that they violated an NFLrule on Sunday when they illegally filmed the field during the Bengals-Browns game, one thing that's still unclear is what exactly the illegal footage shows.

On the Patriots' end, they're insisting that the video from the game is harmless, and that it simply shows a behind-the-scenes look at what it's like to be an advance scout in the NFL, and that the footage was taken by a video crew of independent contractors who violated league policy because they simply weren't aware of NFL rules. However, people who have actually seen the video are painting a much different picture.

According to NFL.com, the footage shows coaches signaling on the Bengalssideline. According to The Athletic, the eight-minute video shows a "direct view" of the Bengals sideline and keeps its focus there the entire time, which seems to contradict what the Patriots said in their statement. Although New England admitted that the team's video crew "inappropriately filmed the field from the press box," the Patriots also added that "the sole purpose of the filming was to provide an illustration of an advance scout at work on the road."

If that was the sole purpose of the video, it's hard to imagine why they would need eight straight minutes of film from the Bengals sideline. If they were making a documentary like they said, they could have simply asked the Bengals to shoot the footage for them. Instead, they kept both the Bengals AND the NFL out of the loop when they made the decision to shoot the video.

If you're wondering how a sideline video could potentially help the Patriots, it's pretty simple. Although most communication in the NFL is now electronic, one advantage of filming a team's sideline is that the Patriots could see what kind of hand signals the Bengals use to make audibles. Plenty of teams still use hand signals to make adjustments on defense or to call audibles on offense.

One other interesting fact from the incident is that the one member of the Patriots video crew actually tried to get rid of the video. According to ESPN.com, the cameraman who took the video for the Patriots asked NFL security if he could delete the footage and have the whole situation be forgotten, but instead, the league ended up confiscating the video. As things currently stand, the league and the Bengals are the only two entities with a copy of the video.

After being asked about the situation on Monday, Patriots coach Bill Belichick was asked about it once again during a conference call on Tuesday morning and he didn't really have much to add.

"I don't have anything to do with this at all, whatsoever. Whatever is going on between the people involved in it and the league and all that, it's not a football issue in any way shape or form," Belichick said, via The Cincinnati Enquirer. "I have no involvement. I don't know anything about this."

The problem for Belichick is that it could soon turn into a football issue, because there's a possibility that the Patriots could be punished by the league. As things stand right now, the NFL has yet to comment on the issue and it's still not clear if the Patriots will be facing any potential punishment for their actions.

One thing that won't be working in New England's favor is the team's track record. Back in 2007, Belichick was fined $500,000 -- the largest fine ever imposed on a coach in league history -- for the part he played in Spygate. As a team, not only were the Patriots hit with a $250,000 fine, but they were also docked their first-round pick in 2008.

One aspect of the Spygate investigation that's similar to what's happening now is that the Patriots videographers were encouraged to have an excuse ready if they were ever caught filming another team.


View: https://twitter.com/johnbreech/status/1204146996430417923


From a 2015 ESPN article on Spygate, "The videographers also were provided with excuses for what to tell NFL security if asked what they were doing: Tell them you're filming the quarterbacks. Or the kickers. Or footage for a team show."

At best, it's just a pure coincidence that the the Patriots are using the same excuse now that they encouraged their videographers to use more than a decade ago. At worst, it's a red flag that the NFL would likely take into account if they decide to punish the Patriots as a team that already has multiple offenses against league policy.

giphy.gif
 

Ewe83

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Such fucking liars, my God, cheaters never prosper, except in the NFL
 

RamFan503

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I'm reopening this thread after doing some cleaning. Please knock off any social justice warrior bullshit and keep it about the subject without going after each other. Go after the patsies, the NFL in general, and let the theories flow.

At ease gentlemen.
 

den-the-coach

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FWIW I have really enjoyed listening to Nick Wright on Mad Dog Sports as he's had several Patriot fans call in and it's been comical....Most of them say "We would never cheat against the Bengals." In which, they are so clueless as that's admitting guilt. I'm enjoying this and on NFL Films they captured Belichick saying during the Super Bowl "Where is McVay." Because the Pats picked up when the Rams call a fake punt, McVay tends to stand next to Goff and when they don't, he doesn't. That is why they film the sidelines to pick up tendencies...I truly hope, the NFL does something to this team and I can't wait for them to burn for eternity.
 
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Riverumbbq

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You're the mathematician, what is 4% or 10% of never ?
 

Farr Be It

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Mac said:
“But yeah, the military really went all in with Active Duty color guards (which wasn't always the case as in the past, veterans and reserve/nat guard units would do it)”
I too doubt there was any issue regarding readiness impact. You're right about the color guards and fly bys. Remember the surprise family reunion period? Remember the proliferation of recruitment ads that continued for years and persisted well after the exploitation of Tillman's death? It really had a scripted feel to it.

The larger point may be true- that the military PR picked up after 9/11. But absolutely false that active duty did not do color guard. As active duty I did a number of jobs in the mid ‘80s, including the ‘87 NBA all-star game. The five services actually are on rotation for these games. I also remember in DC in ‘85 a bunch of us going to an Orioles game when our buddies were doing the anthem.

As for the Cheats, I love that the Bengals are covering their ass, keeping the original copy.

The Cheats do NOT deserve the benefit of any doubt. It is time to disband these scoundrels, a-la SD Clippers ownership being forced to sell, from years ago, if it is proven.

To paraphrase Raymond Donovan, the Rams should say, “Where do we go to get our Lombardi trophies back?”
 
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