Some thoughts on Kroenke as an owner...

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blackbart

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And the "butt hurt" comments are getting old too.

Swear to god there are as many people bitching about "butt hurt" fans not "getting over it" than there are STL/MO fans still actually complaining on here.

If our being upset over not being able to take our kids to the games anymore and disliking Kroenke for the way he trashed our city is too much of an inconvenience for you, GFY.
If you want to be pissed at someone maybe a good target would be the convention center for not holding up their end of the contract for EJD. If they had taken care of business the Rams would have never been able to go year to year.

And FWIW I have no connection to either city and for the last 30 years have lived in enemy territory either the SF Bay Area or Seattle. So your previous statement about fans outsides StL or LA, I am that fan.
 
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Prime Time

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@badnews I edited out the last abbreviation in your comment and am letting it go because I know the sensitivity on this topic for you and others, but let's not do that again. Thanks.
 

Ram65

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Tough thread to read, Got through most of page one...

Stan just put the Rams back on the map with more to come. He has spent money on coaches and players so why would that change now that he will be making more money. Stan has Demoff as the spokesman of the Rams and I think he has a lot of clout. Demoff stays long term but, Fisher and Snead will go at some point. I hope it years of winning football first.
 

FrankenRam

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That win-loss has improved dramatically since he has taken over

And again as I stated above we are just a few pieces away from getting over that hump

There is an element of truth to that.

But they're also a few pieces away from returning to perennial cellar dwellar also. IF both Tru & Jenks were to sign elsewhere this offseason, that would certainly impact the D signficantly. If Quinn's back problem turns into a chronic issue and turns him into a journeyman DE, that would be a major blow as well. If Gurley were to tear his ACL again, then they've got basically no O.

If any one of those occurs, it's a problem. If a couple of them happen, watch out. IF, HolyShitOnAstick, all those possibilities were to transpire, they may well break losing records for years to come.
 

Rambitious1

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I know that my opinion on Kroenke as an owner is probably a minority opinion. And that I'll take some flak for it.

But please try to consider the following with an open mind.

He is a non interfering owner. That's a GM and HC's dream.
He willingly pays his HC top dollar.
He has deep pockets and doesn't skimp on asst coaches salaries, etc, either.
He's building a fabulous stadium in sunny SoCal which might assist in attracting FA's.
His team spends right up to the cap.
His hire of Demoff makes cap management a non problem in retaining most FA's. A huge boost for the GM and HC.

His Achilles heel as an owner, IMO? He made a mistake with the Fisher hire. He wanted to install a "Patriot Way" FO. The efficiency and longevity were very enticing, no doubt.

The problem is that Fisher is no Bellichek. Fisher has a huge hole in his O game strategy. Not to mention stubbornness and inflexibility issues.

So, while he may not be my favorite person, Kroenke gets high marks from me regarding his overall ownership philosophies from the pov of Ram fans and future HC candidates.

As an aside, I seriously doubt that Fisher would have lasted this long with any other owner.

Other opinions may vary. Lol.

giphy.gif
 

bluecoconuts

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I say DE and someone to replace JL ... a kicker

What else?

I think we also need an upgrade at Center, and a true number one WR.. A new LG would probably be nice since Saffold can't really be depended on... I also wouldn't mind an upgrade to Ayers at OLB and an upgrade at safety (not McDonald, I like him).
 

badnews

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@badnews I edited out the last abbreviation in your comment and am letting it go because I know the sensitivity on this topic for you and others, but let's not do that again. Thanks.

Understood completely.

Would you believe me if I said the acronym was GFY= Good For You?

I wouldn't either.
 

badnews

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If you want to be pissed at someone maybe a good target would be the convention center for not holding up their end of the contract for EJD. If they had taken care of business the Rams would have never been able to go year to year.

And FWIW I have no connection to either city and for the last 30 years have lived in enemy territory either the SF Bay Area or Seattle. So your previous statement about fans outsides StL or LA, I am that fan.
I am mad at the cvc. And Kroenke. And people who want to tell me I'm "butt hurt".... it's ridiculous.

And please, as someone who has been following this from the beginning because unlike you being in the bay area or Seattle, it does affect me and I have stayed informed through out the process.
 

Prime Time

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Understood completely.

Would you believe me if I said the acronym was GFY= Good For You?

I wouldn't either.

No, I never thought that was the acronym for GFY. Maybe I've been on Rams forums too long and have become jaded. The relocation talk has brought out the worst in many. Hopefully it will eventually fade into the distance and be replaced with something positive. L8R

I am mad at the cvc. And Kroenke. And people who want to tell me I'm "butt hurt".... it's ridiculous.

Yeah the "butt hurt" comments don't help the discussion and I wish members would knock it off.
 

tonyl711

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Every, or almost every game JT would tweet something like this:


I'm not going to dig through every week for that, because that's ridiculous, but feel free. Maybe he hasn't been to every single game since taking over, but he went to them last year, and he went to them years prior... Maybe not every single game, but I wouldn't expect him to go to every single game, since owning an NFL isn't his only gig... His primary job is KSE.. I know he goes to games in Denver given that he lives in the arena.

Here he is in San Diego:
UTI1810705_r900x493.JPG


Here he is in Arizona prior to the game (2014).
stan-kroenke-jeff-fisher-nfl-st.-louis-rams-arizona-cardinals-850x560.jpg


Here he is watching the Giants game in the owners box (2014)
slp2014122110.jpg


Another game somewhere... Sometime, not sure, but he's with Kevin so it's safe to say it's a Rams game:
650x366



And there are plenty more on Google, plus Arsenal games, Nuggets games, Avs games... Stan does go to his teams games.. Assuming that he would just show up and then leave is just moving the goalposts in my opinion. There was also the story about kicking people out of the toilet in Minnesota a few times, so he was there for at least that game.



Maybe he was genuine at the time, I don't know, nobody knows.. When he made his move to LA though, he never told St Louis to keep working, in fact they reportedly told the Task Force not to bother.



I don't know the details of exactly when Stan came into the picture, if it was before or after the lease... Regardless none of his actions indicate anything about his fandom, or lack thereof, for the NFL or the Rams.. They are totally separate things that you're trying to link. Linkage didn't work for the Soviets, and it doesn't work for me, I'm not buying that logic man, sorry.



Rams made an offer to keep the dome in the top tier, thus locking the Rams into the lease until at least 2025, so technically he did offer something to help keep the team there. Yes it is possible that he made the offer knowing that the city would never accept it, and yes it's possible that he was looking to move to LA, but what if the city said yes? If his ultimate goal was LA at that time, wouldn't it have been better to not make an offer? Could he be sure that LA would stay open for another 10-15 years for him? When at that very moment the Chargers and AEG were working out details on Farmers Field in Downtown LA (until AEG changed termss/Chargers backed out at the last minute)? That seems very risky...

I agree, actions do speak louder than words, hence why I was standing in the minority a year ago saying that Kroenke wanted to move, while others insisted it was simply leverage. That doesn't change the fact that he has gone to quite a few Rams games... I don't know why suddenly now JT isn't a reliable source either.



He certainly wasn't rarely there last year. Lots of people are turds and liars too, including Khan who people seem to think is a saint, he likes to invest in startup companies, and then once the company gets legs he'll push out the other guy and take full control, enjoying the profits.. He isn't afraid to sue to gain control either. That's part of the world of business, people do dick things.



Check twitter, as I said before I'm not going to dig through his twitter all the way back from September, but he was saying it.

i read JT all the time and ive seen just the oppisite, you cant use 1 tweet from him and say that means he was at all the games, link it up or i call BS.
 

bluecoconuts

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i read JT all the time and ive seen just the oppisite, you cant use 1 tweet from him and say that means he was at all the games, link it up or i call BS.

JT's tweets so much, so you can't go back far enough, but it's obvious that even if I posted pictures of him it wouldn't be enough.. I don't argue that Kroenke wasn't personally involved in the community, but I argue that he never went to any games, isn't invested, or that the Rams weren't involved. I don't think that Stan is some saint, but he's not the devil... He's just a guy, he goes to games for his teams, spends money, and makes a lot more.
 

OldSchool

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i read JT all the time and ive seen just the oppisite, you cant use 1 tweet from him and say that means he was at all the games, link it up or i call BS.
Being in every game day thread but two, both road games I was at, there were tweets citing Stan was at the game.
 

FrankenRam

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Tough thread to read, Got through most of page one...

Stan just put the Rams back on the map with more to come. He has spent money on coaches and players so why would that change now that he will be making more money. Stan has Demoff as the spokesman of the Rams and I think he has a lot of clout. Demoff stays long term but, Fisher and Snead will go at some point. I hope it years of winning football first.

How in anyone's name does the move to LA change any of that? He has spent to the player salary cap....just like......well, 31 other teams. Moving to LA doesn't provide him an ability to increase player salaries...that is still dictated by the cap. So, he gets no credit for doing what basically every team is doing.

An argument could be made I guess that he has spent handsomely on the coaching staff where there is no cap structure in place. But it could also be argued that he's cheaped out on coaching because he refuses to fire Fisher after 4 losing seasons to avoid having to pay another coach.

Where the heck does this notion that the LA move makes the Rams more financially viable as a football entity originate. It simply doesn't. The only thing it means is that Stan Kroenke's pockets just got deeper. That's it.
 

blackbart

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I am mad at the cvc. And Kroenke. And people who want to tell me I'm "butt hurt".... it's ridiculous.

And please, as someone who has been following this from the beginning because unlike you being in the bay area or Seattle, it does affect me and I have stayed informed through out the process.
I get it I'd be pissed too if I was living where my team is located and heavily invested emotionally and monetarily, it would suck and I have compassion for you.
 

bluecoconuts

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How in anyone's name does the move to LA change any of that? He has spent to the player salary cap....just like......well, 31 other teams. Moving to LA doesn't provide him an ability to increase player salaries...that is still dictated by the cap. So, he gets no credit for doing what basically every team is doing.

An argument could be made I guess that he has spent handsomely on the coaching staff where there is no cap structure in place. But it could also be argued that he's cheaped out on coaching because he refuses to fire Fisher after 4 losing seasons to avoid having to pay another coach.

Where the heck does this notion that the LA move makes the Rams more financially viable as a football entity originate. It simply doesn't. The only thing it means is that Stan Kroenke's pockets just got deeper. That's it.

A lot of teams that are financially strapped won't spend to the cap, and are limited in their ability to dish out bigger contacts due to a lower internal cap.. I don't think Fisher sticking around was anything more than Kroenke wanting a coach experienced with relocation to help with the transition. I don't think he gets an extension baring a great run next year. Unless there isn't anyone better to replace him.
 

Ram65

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How in anyone's name does the move to LA change any of that? He has spent to the player salary cap....just like......well, 31 other teams. Moving to LA doesn't provide him an ability to increase player salaries...that is still dictated by the cap. So, he gets no credit for doing what basically every team is doing.

An argument could be made I guess that he has spent handsomely on the coaching staff where there is no cap structure in place. But it could also be argued that he's cheaped out on coaching because he refuses to fire Fisher after 4 losing seasons to avoid having to pay another coach.

Where the heck does this notion that the LA move makes the Rams more financially viable as a football entity originate. It simply doesn't. The only thing it means is that Stan Kroenke's pockets just got deeper. That's it.

http://www.thephinsider.com/2013/2/17/3997314/nfl-salary-cap-2013-amount-salary-floor
According to the CBA's Article 12, Section 9:

A) For each of the following four-League Year periods, 201 3-201 6 and 2017-2020, there shall be a guaranteed Minimum Team Cash Spending of 89% of theSalary Caps for such periods (e.g., if the Salary Caps for the 2013-1 6 and 2017-2020 are$100, 120, 1 30, and 1 50 million, respectively, each Club shall have a Minimum Team Cash Spending for that period of $445 million (89% of $500 million))
.

Team don't have to spent to the top of the cap. The Rams IIRC have in the past few years been right up against the cap. Currently they have no carry over money from last year. That means they spent to the cap limit. Here is the link for the list which has the Titans $11+ Million under the cap among other teams.

https://www.nflpa.com/news/all-news/2015-nfl-salary-cap-and-adjusted-team-positions

One could argue that Stan hasn't fired Fisher because he is cheap but, I don't think most reasonable people would. Stan has just made the Rams the second highest valued (money on paper) NFL team over night. His new stadium and development with be state of the art, cutting edge and make the world take notice venue other professional teams will be envious of. The infamous line from the great baseball movie The Field of Dream, "build it and they will come" is a reality for Stan and the Rams. The Rams players will be the beneficiaries of this by having a top level facility to work in, play in with great SoCal weather and many fringe benefits. Financially viable or not the Rams will be on the top of the destination list for many NFL players and coaches.
 

OldSchool

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He has spent to the player salary cap....just like......well, 31 other teams.

I've cited this many times before but what you said there is not actually correct. Going into the 2015 season there were 10 teams that were in danger of violating the CBA and paying heavy fines because they weren't spending at least 89% of the salary cap.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...ending-union-nflpa-raiders-patriots/23522207/

Over the past two seasons, the Raiders spent the least cash: about $205.3 million, or 80.2% of the $256 million total they were allotted, per the NFLPA. If the cap goes up by $10 million per year in both 2015 and '16, the Raiders' average payroll for the next two seasons must increase by more than $40 million just to hit the minimum.

Also underspending — as of Feb. 9, when the NFLPA calculated the numbers —were: the Carolina Panthers (80.8%), New York Jets (81.16%), Jacksonville Jaguars(82.2%), Dallas Cowboys (82.6%), New England (82.7%), New Orleans Saints(86.2%), Washington Redskins (87%), New York Giants (87.9%) and Pittsburgh Steelers (88.3%).

If those teams by the end of 2016 don't correct that they have to pay the players union the difference as a fine that the union distributes as it wishes.
 

LesBaker

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http://www.thephinsider.com/2013/2/17/3997314/nfl-salary-cap-2013-amount-salary-floor
According to the CBA's Article 12, Section 9:

A) For each of the following four-League Year periods, 201 3-201 6 and 2017-2020, there shall be a guaranteed Minimum Team Cash Spending of 89% of theSalary Caps for such periods (e.g., if the Salary Caps for the 2013-1 6 and 2017-2020 are$100, 120, 1 30, and 1 50 million, respectively, each Club shall have a Minimum Team Cash Spending for that period of $445 million (89% of $500 million))
.

Team don't have to spent to the top of the cap. The Rams IIRC have in the past few years been right up against the cap. Currently they have no carry over money from last year. That means they spent to the cap limit. Here is the link for the list which has the Titans $11+ Million under the cap among other teams.

https://www.nflpa.com/news/all-news/2015-nfl-salary-cap-and-adjusted-team-positions

One could argue that Stan hasn't fired Fisher because he is cheap but, I don't think most reasonable people would. Stan has just made the Rams the second highest valued (money on paper) NFL team over night. His new stadium and development with be state of the art, cutting edge and make the world take notice venue other professional teams will be envious of. The infamous line from the great baseball movie The Field of Dream, "build it and they will come" is a reality for Stan and the Rams. The Rams players will be the beneficiaries of this by having a top level facility to work in, play in with great SoCal weather and many fringe benefits. Financially viable or not the Rams will be on the top of the destination list for many NFL players and coaches.

Thats a nice thought, but it didn't really work before so why would it work now?

I appreciate the fans saying that LA is going to draw players and coaches but I have to ask..........why didn't it do that before?
 

LesBaker

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I've cited this many times before but what you said there is not actually correct. Going into the 2015 season there were 10 teams that were in danger of violating the CBA and paying heavy fines because they weren't spending at least 89% of the salary cap.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...ending-union-nflpa-raiders-patriots/23522207/



If those teams by the end of 2016 don't correct that they have to pay the players union the difference as a fine that the union distributes as it wishes.

That is a run on sentence, where is your punctuation!!! :)
 
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