Shaun Hill

[RamzFanz]

Problem with that statement is this,you really think what YOU SAW in training camp is not only superior to OUR opinion but Fishers as well,you REALLY? think what you saw is more relevant than what the coaches have seen since closing practices, in meetings, film sessions?
And what's this "reasonable " crap, you don't understand that's a direct shot at those who disagree with you implying they are unreasonable for disagreeing with you?

Yes it IS in Fishers hands and if ya don't mind me saying so,I value his opinion above yours, not just because of his experience ,but his job depends on these decisions ,he has more to lose .

"Play the game for more than you can afford to lose... only then will you learn the game."

Winston Churchill

No @Thordaddy, no. What I'm saying is the attacks on Hill are mostly made up and what we saw wasn't. CoachO and I SAW AD suck in TC. We SAW Hill play much better than AD. Those are FACTS.

Did Hill suck in game one? Hell no. He was driving the team every series and was screwed by penalties. Did he look like a deer in the headlights? Hell no! Hill took ONE SACK. Davis took FOUR. That reaffirms my belief from what I already SAW with my own eyes, Hill is better at avoiding sacks. But people want to somehow state that AD is going to avoid sacks better because he's younger?! It makes no sense and in a debate about who should start, I'm GOING TO POINT OUT things that make no sense.

Did you value Fishers opinion more when I was calling for AD last season?! Is it POSSIBLE Fisher made a bad decision then that cost us games and is again?

Really though, stop clicking on discussions titled Suan Hill and getting all worked up because we believe Hill may be better... THAT'S what the discussion is ABOUT!

 

[LooNaTik83]

I'm not sure why everyone keeps saying Hill is too old or will be gone next season. The dude is 34, that's not old for a QB. If he excelles, he could have 5-6 good years in him.

So, why do I want to see him play? To see if the Rams can win and to see if they should re-sign him.

Hill is no Favre, don't credit him too much. Davis has a much brighter future then Hill with this organization and that's a fact.

 

[blue4]

I'm still not seeing what Davis did in training camp to be relevant now. It's as useless as asking for a player to play given his college stats. Yes, he was going to be cut in favor of a draft pick. But he didn't because of Bradford. So, now he is playing. Kind of the end of that story.

 

[RamzFanz]

Hill is no Favre, don't credit him too much. Davis has a much brighter future then Hill with this organization and that's a fact.

No, it's an opinion. On this team, Hill could have several years of success and help train up a real QB talent. AD may just be a flash player that can't get it done. I hope not, but 3 losses in a row doesn't sell me.

If Hill comes in and tears it up, people are going to be very bummed the Rams didn't stay with their word and bought in on AD too soon.

 

[RamzFanz]

I'm still not seeing what Davis did in training camp to be relevant now. It's as useless as asking for a player to play given his college stats. Yes, he was going to be cut in favor of a draft pick. But he didn't because of Bradford. So, now he is playing. Kind of the end of that story.

...because Fisher broke his word so we don't know where we would be with Hill right now.

AD won a game based on a clock run off injury and hasn't won since. That's enough for me to at least SEE what Hill could do in this offense. I like that Hill took one sack to AD's four in the Vikings game.

 

[HometownBoy]

...because Fisher broke his word so we don't know where we would be with Hill right now.

AD won a game based on a clock run off injury and hasn't won since. That's enough for me to at least SEE what Hill could do in this offense. I like that Hill took one sack to AD's four in the Vikings game.

No, Fisher saw he had something in Davis and decided not to go with somebody who the scripts already out on.

Also you keep saying that as if it praises Hill when really it necessitates him being on the bench, again, teams are exploiting our weak blocking and hitting Davis, even when he's rolling out and using his mobility to escape. Hill took one hit and it was enough to put him down for how many games? Say what you want about Hill's immaculate blitz pick up, it doesn't bode well for the durability of a guy when he's got one time and he's already done. Definitely isn't something that I hang my hat on and call reliable and I don't blame others for feeling the same.

Also judging him based on his wins is a silly measure of his ability. That shit doesn't fly when people are using W-L to talk about Bradford, it doesn't fly now.

 

[RamzFanz]

No, Fisher saw he had something in Davis and decided not to go with somebody who the scripts already out on.

Also you keep saying that as if it praises Hill when really it necessitates him being on the bench, again, teams are exploiting our weak blocking and hitting Davis, even when he's rolling out and using his mobility to escape. Hill took one hit and it was enough to put him down for how many games? Say what you want about Hill's immaculate blitz pick up, it doesn't bode well for the durability of a guy when he's got one time and he's already done. Definitely isn't something that I hang my hat on and call reliable and I don't blame others for feeling the same.

Also judging him based on his wins is a silly measure of his ability. That crap doesn't fly when people are using W-L to talk about Bradford, it doesn't fly now.

You see, "immaculate blitz pickup" is BS. I never said that, I said he was better, and he is IMHO. Trying to run down Hill doesn't impress me.

AD has lost 3 straight games. That's a fact. I think, with Hills experience and skill sets, Rams could have won those games despite the other issues. That's my opinion.

AD makes bad passes. A lot of them. I don't think Hill would. AD takes a lot of sacks and fumbles. I don't think Hill would. AD has thrown 3 pick sixes. I don't think Hill would.

If Hill isn't durable, so what? AD comes in and now we know. Right now, we don't know, we can only go on what we've seen.

If the season is lost before we see Hill and he's fantastic, it's going to suck.

 

[LooNaTik83]

On this team, Hill could have several years of success and help train up a real QB talent.

If Hill comes in and tears it up, people are going to be very bummed

First off Hill could of had past tense. A veteran QB is held to higher standards of showing. He had that chance.

Secondly, if Hill was to tear it up he should of done that in the beginning of the season to put us fans in awe. I for one would not have been butt hurt if that would of been the case.

 

[HometownBoy]

You see, "immaculate blitz pickup" is BS. I never said that, I said he was better, and he is IMHO. Trying to run down Hill doesn't impress me.

AD has lost 3 straight games. That's a fact. I think, with Hills experience and skill sets, Rams could have won those games despite the other issues. That's my opinion.

AD makes bad passes. A lot of them. I don't think Hill would. AD takes a lot of sacks and fumbles. I don't think Hill would. AD has thrown 3 pick sixes. I don't think Hill would.

If Hill isn't durable, so what? AD comes in and now we know. Right now, we don't know, we can only go on what we've seen.

If the season is lost before we see Hill and he's fantastic, it's going to suck.

Neither does trying to run down Davis, which is what you're doing. There's no running down here, just fact. Using wins and losses is more trying to run down than that. Football is a team sport, losses aren't indicative of players, you know this.

Hill didn't survive one game with this line, fact. Hill made his fair share of bad decisions with this line, hell the last play he made before his injury took him was a pick, do in most part to the fact that he had a fella in his face during. Hill isn't above making bad decisions. So while you're allowed to think he might not have made those throws, I'm allowed to think in the face of pressure he might have. Also I don't really imagine Hill would be much better at holding onto the football when he's getting hit from the blindside than Davis, that's where a majority of his fumbles came from. S'not like he's dropping it left and right, he's getting hit HARD when he's not expecting it, I doubt any QB can stand to claim they'd do better. Also I really doubt with his limited and lesser mobility that Hill would have avoided any sacks, in fact I'd wager he'd have taken several more by now. Davis' feet have saved him from quite a few. Being better at blitz pick up means very little when your blockers aren't very good at doing their assignments. I'd say that Bradford was pretty good at blitz pick up(Better than Davis is currently) and much more mobile than Hill, but he still took his lumps because no matter what you audible into your guys still have to do their jobs, and guess what's not being done?

You're also not giving Davis credit for the things he did right, IE the fact that we were in those games to begin with by him keeping drives alive, making good throws and generally being on the money often times. Does he make mistakes? Yeah, he's young and he's not in the best situation, they suck but they come. That doesn't do away with the fact that he's done good, and that he's had a lot of good done away by either the refs or his own teammates. Cook and Pettis basically dropped game winners on him multiple times and the refs have shattered our momentum multiple times, if you're gonna look at the negative you gotta look at the positive too. S'not fair to hang the losses on him solely because they weren't, not even close.

Of course if Hill comes in and he sucks and causes us even more unacceptable losses that'd suck too, what does rhetoric have to do with this?

 

[Akrasian]

Okay, I've waded through this.

First off, let me say I wanted Hill to come back and reclaim the starter job. I understand that Hill's experience is a huge asset.

However, Davis does seem to be a better leader on the field. The team likes him, likes that he tries to win instead of trying not to lose. At least that's my impression.

Yes, Davis has made many mistakes. Despite this, and despite taking over with the team behind, and playing a bunch of tough defenses - his completion percentage is higher than Hill's was in the one half Hill played, and his INT percentage is vastly lower than Hill's - who threw an INT when there was zero reason to throw the ball at all. Not bad mouthing Hill who I like - just pointing out that those criticizing Davis seem to forget this.

Davis' average yard per attempt is higher than Hill's too.

Besides the fact that Fisher has made a stand behind Davis, I do think that Davis has played about as well as Hill could have been expected. More big plays, a few more mistakes than Hill MIGHT have made, though Hill's limited playing time doesn't speak well of his error free capabilities.

I also think that Davis is the one more likely to improve with more playing time. I don't know if it'll be enough; but he deserves the chance at this stage.

Hill is what he is. An aging backup QB who was not quite good enough to be a starter, even in a league desperate to find starting QBs. He's a useful player, and not the worst option around, but not a guy to mourn if he doesn't get an extended trial. Even though I think Davis was about to be cut before Sam's injury, he has shown enough that he will have a career in the NFL. It behooves the Rams to see if it's just as a backup, as a long time starter, or as a guy to start until Sam is ready next year, or until a draft pick is ready to replace him.

 

[Mojo Ram]

Good discussion. I haven't joined in because i really don't think we'd have seen much difference thus far between Hill and Davis(in the win column).

The defense has lost us games. To be honest it's a disgraceful unit. The run D has improved...thats the good news.

 

[BriansRams]

If the season is lost before we see Hill and he's fantastic, it's going to suck.

Amen. That's all I've been saying. Fisher owe's it to his team and to the remaining fans to see what Hill can do the next couple games. If nothing special, then go back to playing and watching to see if AD will progress to true caliber starting QB.

But don't be so foolish as to give up the entire season when with some luck and very hard work, we still might be able to slip into a wild card spot. Don't sell out the season so early. 3 pick 6's is never a good thing.

 

[LooNaTik83]

Amen. That's all I've been saying. Fisher owe's it to his team and to the remaining fans to see what Hill can do the next couple games. If nothing special, then go back to playing and watching to see if AD will progress to true caliber starting QB.

What I don't understand is this past tense nonsense...What can Hill do? We saw what Hill can do, and that is get hurt in the first game. His prone to injury hasn't helped us, and may not help us any further due to his injury flaw, so what makes you think he can do any better moving forward? Ok, ok I see where this argument will go, "He is healthy he won't be the same Shaun Hill we saw at the beginning of this season." Well Shaun Hill being the veteran on the Rams QB staff people sure have seen enough of him.

 

[Boffo97]

To me, it's not about shouting down anyone or making anything up. It's just pretty simple.

In the Not For Long, if someone lights up, you have to keep playing him. If he fizzles later, put Hill in then. But nothing we've seen yet points to Hill outdoing Davis. Hill's going to have to wait to see if Davis declines.

 

[RamFan503]

I like that Hill took one sack to AD's four in the Vikings game.

For over 29 minutes of the first half the viqueans were up by less than a TD. You don't think their defense dialed up the pass rush just a tad as their lead grew? In addition, Davis dropped back almost twice as much. If a team doesn't have to respect the run, they will be pinning their ears back and going after the QB. You can't honestly ignore that. And if our O-line has showed anything so far, it is that they have quite a bit of difficulty in pass protection. Sure Hill only took one sack. But he fumbled the ball when he got sacked and on the very next play, he threw an interception deep in our end of the field.

I'm not sure what you saw in TC or were able to see and concentrate on. I don't know who AD and Hill were throwing to and under how much duress. It may be true that AD didn't look as good as Hill. But the coaches obviously saw something they liked better in AD than in Hill after he went down. I highly doubt they are putting AD in if Hill offered a better chance to win and win NOW.

I'm not going to tell you that AD is better than Hill and I really did like the Hill signing. But I watched AD play in person in a real game and I liked what I saw. He hit receivers in incredibly tight windows. He stood strong in the pocket and was still able to deliver a couple passes with guys draped on him. Yeah he threw some head scratchers. But I liked the way he battled in a game that not a lot else was going for our offense.

My biggest thing is that I just don't see an advantage to Hill over AD. And in fact, with how we have seen the middle of our O-line perform this year, the idea of a QB being able to climb the pocket doesn't do much for me if there is no pocket to climb. Hill may very well have several years left in him. But I'm not sure he survives nor can deliver in the face of the pressures we have allowed. And if AD is as good or almost as good as Hill now, what will he be with some more real playing time? A decent starter?

I'm not sure Hill has really ever been more than a good back-up who can do well in a good situation. If we were playing up to our potential and Sam goes down, I would guess that Hill would be in there. But we're not playing close to our potential IMO and I honestly don't see how Hill changes any of that or has ever showed an ability to improvise and be a game changer.

It would be nice to see if Hill could do more with this offense. But unfortunately, you have to go with the guy who gives you the best chance to win now and/or in the future. You don't just pull your starter and give the ball to someone else. The starter gets the first team reps and is the guy you work extensively with in practice to get ready for the game. The starter needs to be the guy to the other players. You can't just put in Hill to see if he might work when you think AD is your better option. And I really doubt AD is playing even though the coaches think Hill is the better option.

 

[Thordaddy]

No @Thordaddy, no. What I'm saying is the attacks on Hill are mostly made up and what we saw wasn't. CoachO and I SAW AD suck in TC. We SAW Hill play much better than AD. Those are FACTS.

Did Hill suck in game one? Hell no. He was driving the team every series and was screwed by penalties. Did he look like a deer in the headlights? Hell no! Hill took ONE SACK. Davis took FOUR. That reaffirms my belief from what I already SAW with my own eyes, Hill is better at avoiding sacks. But people want to somehow state that AD is going to avoid sacks better because he's younger?! It makes no sense and in a debate about who should start, I'm GOING TO POINT OUT things that make no sense.

Did you value Fishers opinion more when I was calling for AD last season?! Is it POSSIBLE Fisher made a bad decision then that cost us games and is again?

Really though, stop clicking on discussions titled Suan Hill and getting all worked up because we believe Hill may be better... THAT'S what the discussion is ABOUT!

Again you say people other than you "make no sense" as if you and O were the only ones who possibly could.

It's not that you have a differing POV that's the problem here ,it's how you are presenting it,and please don't tell me what threads I should or should not "click on" or post in.

BTW as far as this specious charge that I'm "worked up " ,dude you've posted like 32 times in this thread I've posted 6, seems to me from that count and some of the way you've framed the arguments of other posters as making no sense or unreasonable, it ain't me who's " worked up".

As far as the sacks each of those QB's took in that Minnesota game,Hill wasn't trying to come back from a blowout in the first half Minnesota had no need to honor the run and could tee off on Davis ,they didn't have that luxury in the first half , easily explainable .
I don't really think that either of these QB's have a huge advantage over the other since they both have flaws and strengths , my preference is based on two aspects ,that the coaching staff ,not just Fisher seem to prefer Davis ,I expect them to have better info than any of us and that Hill has always found his way to become the backup everywhere he's gone EVEN to a guy we were going to cut.

 

[lasvegasrams]

Again you say people other than you "make no sense" as if you and O were the only ones who possibly could.

It's not that you have a differing POV that's the problem here ,it's how you are presenting it,and please don't tell me what threads I should or should not "click on" or post in.

BTW as far as this specious charge that I'm "worked up " ,dude you've posted like 32 times in this thread I've posted 6, seems to me from that count and some of the way you've framed the arguments of other posters as making no sense or unreasonable, it ain't me who's " worked up".

As far as the sacks each of those QB's took in that Minnesota game,Hill wasn't trying to come back from a blowout in the first half Minnesota had no need to honor the run and could tee off on Davis ,they didn't have that luxury in the first half , easily explainable .
I don't really think that either of these QB's have a huge advantage over the other since they both have flaws and strengths , my preference is based on two aspects ,that the coaching staff ,not just Fisher seem to prefer Davis ,I expect them to have better info than any of us and that Hill has always found his way to become the backup everywhere he's gone EVEN to a guy we were going to cut.

Exactly. Minnesota knew we were going to pass, PLUS Davis was pretty much thrown in.

 

[Thordaddy]

Exactly. Minnesota knew we were going to pass, PLUS Davis was pretty much thrown in.

Yeah Hill got all the reps in practice that week one would assume.

 

[Faceplant]

Again you say people other than you "make no sense" as if you and O were the only ones who possibly could.

Yeah, it also seems that RF is trying to align himself with Coach as if that gives him some additional credibility. I read reports of TWO QBs that were very underwhelming in TC, and those are our current #1 and #2. For the record, I really like Shaun Hill and was one of the his loudest supporters before and after we signed him. I still like him, and would be fine if he were the starter, I just don't get the "we would be 4-1 with Hill" hyperbole. There is absolutely NO reason to believe that from what we have seen. This TEAM is 1-4....for a multitude of reasons that are not related to the QB position.

 

[Oldgeek]

Davis or Hill, doesn't matter who plays, but the ball has to come out fast. The Seahawks will bring as many as they need to get quick pressure. The reason Sack City has only one sack is teams are getting the ball out quickly (and holding is now allowed). Shotty and Williams need to adjust, as what they've been doing, is not working.

 

[Rmfnlt]

In a way, this is Shottenheimer's chance to mold a quarterback to what he wants, and I wondered exactly how much he really values talent vs. willingness to execute, especially right now.

Oh no... didn't he "mold" Sanchez in NY? Or maybe the word moldy is more appropros.

 

[RamzFanz]

First off Hill could of had past tense. A veteran QB is held to higher standards of showing. He had that chance.

Secondly, if Hill was to tear it up he should of done that in the beginning of the season to put us fans in awe. I for one would not have been butt hurt if that would of been the case.

If AD goes down or continues to lose and Hill comes in and tears it up, we're going to be bummed.