Safeties aren't getting paid this offseason

  • To unlock all of features of Rams On Demand please take a brief moment to register. Registering is not only quick and easy, it also allows you access to additional features such as live chat, private messaging, and a host of other apps exclusive to Rams On Demand.

CGI_Ram

Hamburger Connoisseur
Moderator
Joined
Jun 28, 2010
Messages
48,218
Name
Burger man
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/...ason-and-eric-reid-could-be-a-big-reason-why/

Safeties aren't getting paid this offseason, and Eric Reid could be a big reason why

By and large, free agency in the NFL played out this month in the exact opposite manner of how it transpired in baseball. Teams with abundant cap space dove into the deep end of the financial pool before the markets even officially opened at the start of the league year, and dozens of marginal players received handsome compensation. Within days, the top talent was off the market.

Well, except for the safety position. Things look a lot more like Major League Baseball in terms of the way the market has unfolded, or, frankly, failed to unfold. This offseason in MLB was about a slow, patience-testing waiting game between teams and free agents, with long-term deals difficult to come by, with the market far softer than we had seen in recent years and with elite players going far into spring training without a new team. Words like collusionwere tossed around here and there, and the MLBPA and agent community believed something fishy might be going on.

And some of that same sort of chatter is going around in football circles, but on a far more position-specific basis. Agents for quality safeties -- guys who have been productive and healthy for the most part and who aren't at the end of their careers -- are getting beyond frustrated at the stagnant market, with salaries in a holding pattern at best. Several have reached out to the NFLPA to vent, I'm told, and are casting a jaundiced eye at NFL teams who seem to have strikingly similar financial evaluations on their players.

Bottom line is that at a time when the passing game is all the rage and middling quarterbacks along with receivers and corners are reaping massive contracts, safeties are having a difficult time getting legit offers, much less making a buck.

It's pretty bizarre. Even guys who can make plays on the ball are being largely shut out or limited to no-frills negotiations at a time when even running backs and two-down inside linebackers have gotten paid. There has been almost no movement at this position, and guys like Eric Reid (age 26), Kenny Vaccaro (27), Tre Boston (25), and Ron Parker (30) all still trying to find work, to say nothing of a group of older veterans who have still performed at a high level in recent years, like Corey Graham, Darius Butler and Reggie Nelson.

"We're barely even getting phone calls, and we're not the only ones," said one agent who is involved in the safety market. "You can't even get (BS) offers. We're literally getting nothing. I'm not even talking one year, $3 million. Nothing. And it's not just us."

Indeed, league sources indicated that several of the best remaining safeties on the market have been in communication with one another, sharing their experiences and trying to figure out what the heck is going on. Parker, Vaccaro, Reid and others have spoken about the fact that they can't seem to find a market, with different theories being espoused as to why. Going back to the combine it seems teams were taking a hardline stance on around $5 million to $7 million per year on safeties, and no one was getting close to what they had originally hoped for. The safety who did the best, actually, didn't do a thing, as the Rams placed the franchise tag on Lamarcus Joyner, which will earn him more than $11 million in 2018.

Kurt Coleman got a deal quickly with New Orleans after he was cut by Carolina last month -- he didn't have to wait for the league year to open to officially sign -- but that three-year, $16 million was an outlier. Morgan Burnetthad aimed for $10 million and couldn't get $5 million per year on a three-year deal with the Steelers. Tyrann Mathieu had hoped to reach around that figure as well when he turned down an offer to stay in Arizona on a reduced salary and ended up getting from the Texas $7 million on just a one-year deal, roughly half of what he was set to make originally in 2018.

That $7 million figure is the highest annual value for a safety this offseason, with 45 players at other positions bettering it on the open market, while 44 non-safeties got deals worth more than Coleman's max value. Only two safeties got over $5 million per year thus far at a time when receivers like Donte Moncrief are getting double that.

There are a few mitigating circumstances. Reid is a former first-round pick who has played well enough to warrant a contract, whether back with the 49ers or elsewhere, but as one of the more prominent players to have joined Colin Kaepernick in his peaceful pre-game demonstrations in San Francisco, this was always going to be a tricky market for him. Trust me, Kaepernick's legal team is watching Reid's situation very closely as it may possibly pertain to their ongoing collusion grievance against the NFL, and if Reid, too, is systematically ignored by needy teams, it will certainly raise more probing questions as to how much of this is really about football. Reid reportedly told ESPN that he does not plan to protest during the national anthem in 2018.

Agents for other safeties believe that teams may be ignoring much of the entire position group -- and other younger safeties overall -- as a means of not just singling Reid out, himself. It may not be as obvious that Reid is blackballed if there are a handful of similar players who can nary get a phone call from a team with stated interest in them, and if all anyone seems to be willing to pay, hypothetically, is around $4 million per year. At various times this offseason clubs like the Packers, Browns, Bucs and Cowboys have been sniffing around on safeties, and, boy, there are still plenty of them to choose from. Twenty-five remain on the market as we speak.

"It feels like, with Eric Reid in the market, and teams not wanting to touch him, that a lot of other safeties are also being held down," the agent said. "Instead of anybody getting $8 million to $9 million per year, no one is getting it."

Perhaps this market will open up some next week with all owners, coaches and general managers huddled together in Orlando at the annual spring meeting. There is also the specter of a potential trade for Seattle All-Pro Earl Thomas -- the best safety in the game, when healthy -- that could be somewhat hampering the free agent market. Thomas is available (the initial asking price was high: a first- and third-round pick) and the Seahawks have engaged with several teams about him, and Thomas wants a healthy new deal wherever he goes, I'm told.

So perhaps a few teams are holding out for him, and keeping that cash and cap aside for Thomas should they land him. But it's pretty clear that an abundance of options remains at this one particular position group long after most others have been thoroughly picked through and cleaned out. All eyes will remain on Reid, and whether he meets the same free-agent reality that has befallen Kaepernick, and the conversations between these young safeties will continue as they wait and wonder if and when they'll get paid anything close to their originally expected market value.
 

Elmgrovegnome

Legend
Joined
Jan 23, 2013
Messages
22,019
I wonder if the Rams made a mistake by franchising Joyner instead of Sammy. Maybe Joyner would have been in this same situation. Tre Boston had a great year. Morgan Burnett is a very good and versatile player.

Or maybe, safeties as a whole are replaceable players. Very few differentiate themselves from others. Earl Thomas is the only elite free safety. Maybe the Vikings, Harrison Smith. But, we have seen teams plug and play safeties with good success. T. J. Ward, and Darian Stewart immediately come to mind. With the salary cap crunch and level safety play across the board, do GMs feel that it is a position, not worth big money? College safeties transition to the NFL pretty well. Strong Safeties are a dime a dozen. The surplus is just driving down the market.
 

wolfdogg

Hall of Fame
Joined
Jun 19, 2014
Messages
2,965
Name
wolfdogg
I just hope Joyner can make it on his 11.3 mil this year. He said "it won't hurt me" and "I'm keeping an open mind" about his current struggle with the franchise tag.

Gotta love his optimistic attitude despite the dire situation. I hear the food assistance program is really good in Cali so my prayers go out to him....and the people in Puerto Rico who haven't had a clean glass of water to drink for 6 months.
 

DaveFan'51

Old-Timer
Rams On Demand Sponsor
Joined
Apr 18, 2014
Messages
18,666
Name
Dave
There is always a " Lowest Paid Position Group" in the League! This year it's 'Safeties'! I wonder what Players like Night-Train Lane made Back-in-His-Day!(y);)
 

wolfdogg

Hall of Fame
Joined
Jun 19, 2014
Messages
2,965
Name
wolfdogg
There is always a " Lowest Paid Position Group" in the League! This year it's 'Safeties'! I wonder what Players like Night-Train Lane made Back-in-His-Day!(y);)


If I remember correctly, the rams offered him 5k for the first season.
 

Selassie I

H. I. M.
Moderator
Joined
Jun 23, 2010
Messages
17,690
Name
Haole
That list of safeties still looking for work doesn't really contain players that scream badass to me. That's probably the real reason why they are still looking for work.

Plus... plugging a rookie in at that position doesn't mean a big drop off in production. It will be a big drop off in cost though.
 

Ram65

Legend
Joined
Apr 30, 2015
Messages
9,632
2017 PFF Grade
Kurt Coleman 47.0 Poor #76 S. 3 Year deal at 16 Million
Morgan Burnett 77.2 #51 Average S Got 3 year deal @ 14.3 Milllion


Kenny Vaccaro 35.4 Poor #120 CB
Ron Parker 40 #84 S Poor and 31 years old.


Tre Boston 81.4 # 30 S Above Average
Eric Reid 81.4 #30 S Above Average

https://www.azcentral.com/story/spo...highest-paid-safeties-2016-rankings/96732066/

Jeremy Cluff, azcentral sportsPublished 11:09 a.m. MT Jan. 19, 2017 | Updated 9:18 a.m. MT Jan. 17, 2018
NFL's highest paid safeties (average salary per year):
1. Chiefs safety Eric Berry: $13 million
2. Cardinals safety Tyrann Mathieu: $12.5 million
3. Dolphins safety Reshad Jones: $12 million
4. Seahawks safety Kam Chancellor: $12 million
5. Vikings safety Harrison Smith: $10.3 million
6. Seahawks safety Earl Thomas: $10 million
7. Patriots safety Devin McCourty: $9.5 million
8. Eagles safety Malcolm Jenkins: $8.8 million
9. Ravens safety Tony Jefferson: $8.5 million
10. Jaguars safety Tashaun Gipson: $7.2 million


Jeez Coleman had a poor rating and still got 5.3 Million a year. Vaccaro is bad in coverage while Parker had a down year and is 31. Eric Reid played some LBer so I'm not sure how they graded him but, he is good and looks like he is being targeted for his National Anthem stands with Kapnercrap. That is crazy and he should be signed to a good contract.

Read the LaMarcus Joyner franchise tag thread yesterday. Now reading this it makes you wonder more what he would have gotten on the open market. His PPF grade is 90.3 Elite top 3 IIRC. If Coleman rated Poor got 5.3 Million per year and the average Morgan got 5 Million then certainly Joyner is worth more. How much more? Mathieu gets his salary lowered. Darn I would feel better if they can get a long term deal done soon.
 
Last edited:

pipedream

UDFA
Joined
Aug 22, 2014
Messages
6
Name
pipedream
2017 PFF Grade
Kurt Coleman 47.0 Poor #76 S. 3 Year deal at 16 Million
Morgan Burnett 77.2 #51 Average S Got 3 year deal @ 14.3 Milllion


Kenny Vaccaro 35.4 Poor #120 CB
Ron Parker 40 #84 S Poor and 31 years old.


Tre Boston 81.4 # 30 S Above Average
Eric Reid 81.4 #30 S Above Average

https://www.azcentral.com/story/spo...highest-paid-safeties-2016-rankings/96732066/

Jeremy Cluff, azcentral sportsPublished 11:09 a.m. MT Jan. 19, 2017 | Updated 9:18 a.m. MT Jan. 17, 2018
NFL's highest paid safeties (average salary per year):
1. Chiefs safety Eric Berry: $13 million
2. Cardinals safety Tyrann Mathieu: $12.5 million
3. Dolphins safety Reshad Jones: $12 million
4. Seahawks safety Kam Chancellor: $12 million
5. Vikings safety Harrison Smith: $10.3 million
6. Seahawks safety Earl Thomas: $10 million
7. Patriots safety Devin McCourty: $9.5 million
8. Eagles safety Malcolm Jenkins: $8.8 million
9. Ravens safety Tony Jefferson: $8.5 million
10. Jaguars safety Tashaun Gipson: $7.2 million


Jeez Coleman had a poor rating and still got 5.3 Million a year. Vaccaro is bad in coverage while Parker had a down year and is 31. Eric Reid played some LBer so I'm not sure how they graded him but, he is good and looks like he is being targeted for his National Anthem stands with Kapnercrap. That is crazy and he should be signed to a good contract.

Read the LaMarcus Joyner franchise tag thread yesterday. Now reading this it makes you wonder more what he would have gotten on the open market. His PPF grade is 90.3 Elite top 3 IIRC. If Coleman rated Poor got 5.3 Million per year and the average Morgan got 5 Million then certainly Joyner is worth more. How much more? Mathieu gets his salary lowered. Darn I would feel better if they an get a long term deal done soon.
I think the Rams did the right move. Sammy would have probably gone the same route as Tru and keep eating up a lot of cap room in the mean time. If we get Suh instead we definitely can get by without Sammy. Wont need as many points. As far as Joyner, he is seeing what the rest of the safeties are getting and will probably sign much less than his Franchise tag gets him in the long run, just not this year.
 

Ram65

Legend
Joined
Apr 30, 2015
Messages
9,632
I think the Rams did the right move. Sammy would have probably gone the same route as Tru and keep eating up a lot of cap room in the mean time. If we get Suh instead we definitely can get by without Sammy. Wont need as many points. As far as Joyner, he is seeing what the rest of the safeties are getting and will probably sign much less than his Franchise tag gets him in the long run, just not this year.

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/new...nsition-difference/1w7mwh36nqnfw1qb7lne9t9ka0
What happens next?
Teams have until July 16 to reach a long-term contract with a tagged player. If no agreement can be reached by then, the player will play on a one-year contract.

Can players be tagged multiple times?
Players can be tagged in consecutive years, but it's costly. For a player to be tagged two-straight years, the team must pay 120 percent of the player's previous salary. If it's three-straight years, the team must pay the player 144 percent of his previous salary.

I certainly did not want to F Tag Sammy or pay him anywhere near what he got paid. The Rams have until July 16th to make a long term deal with Joyner. If they can't by then they risk next year having to pay Joyner 1.2 x 11.287 Million =13.5444 Million in 2019. The other problem is Donald's contract which could result in using the F Tag on him. They can only tag one. The Rams have to playout the Suh decision, continue with free agency signings and deal with Donald before they know their money options to resign Joyner. It's possible they could have money to do a long term deal with Joyner and front load it this year if the other deals aren't done. They could let Joyner go next year and replace him with a cheaper option. Rams finally have premier players but, can't afford to pay all of them.
 
Last edited:

Akrasian

Rams On Demand Sponsor
Rams On Demand Sponsor
Joined
Jun 18, 2014
Messages
4,929
I certainly did not want to F Tag Sammy or pay him anywhere near what he got paid. The Rams have until July 16th to make a long term deal with Joyner. If they can't by then they risk next year having to pay Joyner 1.2 x 11.287 Million =
13.5444 Million in 2019.

Or they can draft a mid level guy this year, and develop him into fitting Wade's system,and let Joyner walk if he is demanding too much. Possibly get a draft pick for him.

I suspect they will try that, and see if they can get a safety that will fill that spot. They need depth anyway.
 

OC--LeftCoast

Agent Provocateur
Joined
Nov 24, 2012
Messages
3,695
Name
Greg
Yeah, back to the OP

Too bad

Actions ( and words) have consequences

Just the way it rolls
 

Ram65

Legend
Joined
Apr 30, 2015
Messages
9,632
Or they can draft a mid level guy this year, and develop him into fitting Wade's system,and let Joyner walk if he is demanding too much. Possibly get a draft pick for him.

I suspect they will try that, and see if they can get a safety that will fill that spot. They need depth anyway.

They could let Joyner go next year and replace him with a cheaper option.

Drafting a safety is one of the cheaper options I was thinking of. You are right, there is not much depth with Johnson and Christian are the only safeties signed thru 2019.
 

Psycho_X

Legend
Joined
Jan 14, 2013
Messages
11,235
Safeties are the RB of the defense. Easy to replace in the draft every year if need be. Elite safeties will still get paid but I wouldn't call any of those safeties listed elite or if they are/were they are old/injury prone now. I'm sure Joyner would get paid well if he hit the open market.
 

LACHAMP46

A snazzy title
Joined
Jul 21, 2013
Messages
11,735
And someone was arguing with me that we didn't overpay Joyner? And yeah, I woulda replaced him with a rookie.....probably started JJIII, and Barron at SS.....
And some of these rookies.....are...intriguing....
https://www.drafttek.com/2018-NFL-Draft-Prospect-Rankings/Top-College-Safeties-2018-Draft.asp
http://www.nfl.com/combine/tracker#day=monday
Names you say??? You want names.....
DANE CRUIKSHANK,
TROY APKE
TRE FLOWERS
DUKE DAWSON ( baby Joyner here)
JESSIE BATES (like him a bunch to start)
GODWIN IGWEBUIKE (smart guy that can run)
J.C. JACKSON (really like this guy....think he can start...love DB's that get kicked outta Florida...reminds of Jenoris)

NATRELL JAMERSON (kinda raw....but strong as a bull, fast as a cheetah)
PARRY NICKERSON (small ball hawk.....and yall know I don't want no small safeties)
JUSTIN REID (smart, has bloodlines)
GREG STROMAN (football PLAYER....but small AF!!....needs to eat some roids....but dude can play)
DOMINCIK SANDERS..(lots of game film on this kid.....if he can run??.and most guys outta UG can...could become a playa)

guys in GREEN....I really like.....4th/6th rounders baby!!!

$11 million for 3 picks in 4 years:shocked:?!?!? You'll go broke doin that:banghead:

Don't @ me, oleSchool......
 

DaveFan'51

Old-Timer
Rams On Demand Sponsor
Joined
Apr 18, 2014
Messages
18,666
Name
Dave
Night Train was a CB.
Actually, to be more precise, Night-Train Played LDH ( Left Defensive Half-back) for the Rams, Later RDH for Detroit, and then in 1960 they started calling the Position Corner-Back!(y);):D
 

BonifayRam

Legend
Joined
Jan 14, 2013
Messages
13,435
Name
Vernon
The article seems to have a lot of 9ers Eric Reid mentioned in it......The 9ers were thinking about moving on from Eric Reid early in 2017. Then the 9ers copied what Gregg Williams did to SS Mark Barron back in 2015 & converted Reid to starting weak-side LB'er in 2017.

The Rams had to move on LJ before free agency began. CB/Safety Lamarcus Joyner has some special elements in his game & is no normal safety. Rams had to make a decision on LJ on March 6th. Then they attacked the teams biggest weakness ......trading for CB's Peters & Talib & signed CB's NR-C & Shields on March 14th or there abouts.

This past week we saw that the Rams will be meeting with deep/free safety prospect Justin Reid who is projected to go somewhere in the later half of the first round.

I would think that if LJ refuses to sign a new long term contract this season with the Rams he will not be retained after the 2018 season concludes.
 
Last edited: