Rams Select Braden Fiske, DL at #39 Overall.

[JYB]

You made the claim that Les Snead has a reputation "around the league" as a person who can be taken advantage of.

I'd like to see evidence of this, from people who are actually "in the league".

You think there are GMs who will come out and say, "Yes, we know Les is a sucker"?

Lol.

Come on -- he regularly gets taken advantage of in trades. You think other GMs haven't noticed?

PS: I really don't wanna turn this into a bashing of Les, bc I love what he does and wouldn't want too many others leading this team. Just think he can -- and should -- do better in his trading. That's all.

 

[Allen2McVay]

Very simple -- a more even trade. It's really not that complex.

...

You did not answer the question. If it's 'not that complex' why would you not even try?

I have not been arguing with you, or anyone else about the trade and whether I thought it was good or bad.

I have not posted on the topic. Not once. I was just curious what you think would have been a more fair trade.

 

[So Ram]

You obviously have a reading comprehension problem.

My biggest issue is what they gave up in draft capital for Fiske.

He played 1 year at FSU and showed decent growth at that level. He’s a little older and at least one scout said he has an injury history. Also evaluated as a rotation 3 technique.

Rams wanted him so welcome to the ramily, hopefully he turns into a solid anchor in the middle.

Some how I was thinking it was only a 5th rd pick- then you throw in a SECOND ROUND DRAFT PICK in 2025 !! It is a lot to give up.

Still the vision & the evaluation process is something we all have to respect . — Your right when you come to that conclusion though of the VALUE to Draft FISKE !!

I still like the pick & the cost of a Starting DT is what The Big Picture needs to be.Each Draft is it’s own & positions of need has to be considered as well as where you have the player evaluated .

Fiske was a 1st rd talent to The Rams. Third DT listed in most mock drafts.

 

[Allen2McVay]

Just a relatively even trade using any trade chart you want. That's all. I'm sure there are tons of different combinations that can get you there. But no matter which chart you use for this trade, you'll find that we overpaid by a lot.

So this is twice you have declined to even attempt to answer a simple and reasonable question that was respectfully posed.

if there are 'tons of combinations that get you there' , share one.

 

[JYB]

You did not answer the question. If it's 'not that complex' why would you not even try?

I have not been arguing with you, or anyone else about the trade and whether I thought it was good or bad.

I have not posted on the topic. Not once. I was just curious what you think would have been a more fair trade.

The concept is simple -- a more even trade, using any trade chart you like. I'm sure one could come up with a dozen different combinations of pick swaps that would provide a relatively equal value on a trade chart.

Based on any trading value system you prefer, can you make the case that it was an even trade?

 

[Allen2McVay]

The concept is simple -- a more even trade, using any trade chart you like. I'm sure one could come up with a dozen different combinations of pick swaps that would provide a relatively equal value on a trade chart.

Based on any trading value system you prefer, can you make the case that it was an even trade?

That's three times you have refused to even attempt to give an answer to a simple, reasonable question.

 

[JYB]

So this is twice you have declined to even attempt to answer a simple and reasonable question that was respectfully posed.

if there are 'tons of combinations that get you there' , share one.

I was watching the PFF broadcast when the trade happened. They assumed the trade details HAD to be a typo. When they realized it was accurate, they were shocked at how much the Rams gave up. Are they clueless and out of touch?

Ok, let's keep it simple. How about giving up a third next year instead of a second? That should still have gotten the trade done based on the trading value charts, and yet still leans in favor of Carolina.

 

[tempests]

You think there are GMs who will come out and say, "Yes, we know Les is a sucker"?

Lol.

Come on -- he regularly gets taken advantage of in trades. You think other GMs haven't noticed?

PS: I really don't wanna turn this into a bashing of Les, bc I love what he does and wouldn't want too many others leading this team. Just think he can -- and should -- do better in his trading. That's all.

The most I could say is that Les is more at easy parting with premium drafts picks than other, more conservative GMs would be. The Panthers have a rookie GM and I find it very unlikely he shrewdly outmaneuvered our veteran GM who has experience in many draft trades before. Or that this happens on a regular basis.

Les is the guy who got three first rounders (and a second) for the rights to RG3, by the way. Was he a bad negotiator then?

It very well could have been that a second rounder was going to make or break the deal. Other teams may have shied away, saying that's too much. Les is not one of those guys.

 

[JYB]

Les is the guy who got three first rounders (and a second) for the rights to RG3, by the way. Was he a bad negotiator then?

Yes, that was an excellent trade. But that was pre- "F them picks" Les.

 

[Memphis Ram]

I was watching the PFF broadcast when the trade happened. They assumed the trade details HAD to be a typo. When they realized it was accurate, they were shocked at how much the Rams gave up. Are they clueless and out of touch?

Ok, let's keep it simple. How about giving up a third next year instead of a second? That should still have gotten the trade done based on the trading value charts, and yet still leans in favor of Carolina.

See, this is what I thought when I questioned your understanding.

Valuewise, a 3rd next year equals a 4th in the middle of the round this year.

Using the Jimmy Johnson Trade Chart that's roughly 62 points.

But using that same chart it takes 130 points to move up from 52 to 39. That's roughly pick #92 which is a low 3rd rounder. The overpayment comes in the Rams giving up the equivalent of pick #72 which is a high 3rd rounder.

And from the Rams perspective they don't expect that 2025 2nd rounder to be in the middle of the round, but much lower.

 

[Flatlyner]

I just think the Rams were fairly desperate for a impact starting DT. The story the Jourdan wrote indicates Fiske was their top rated guy on the board for day 2. Perhaps the Panthers had other, better offers and the Rams had to increase theirs to insure they got their guy. I'm ok with it. If that's the one guy they wanted, and it appears that is the case, do it.

Sounds like, all along they wanted the 2 most impactful players on potentially the best defense in college football last year, and they got them.

 

[Allen2McVay]

...

Ok, let's keep it simple. How about giving up a third next year instead of a second? That should still have gotten the trade done based on the trading value charts, and yet still leans in favor of Carolina.

Five minutes before the Rams/Panthers trade, Atlanta moved-up in a deal with Arizona.

Atlanta moved-up 8 spots (43-to-35) and gave-up a 3rd round pick this year (#79). Atlanta also got back a 6th.

The Rams moved-up 13 spots (52-to-39). Their 3rd round pick this year (#83) would NOT have been enough.
How could you possibly think the Rams 3rd round pick NEXT YEAR would have 'gotten the trade done'?.

 

[JYB]

That's three times you have refused to even attempt to give an answer to a simple, reasonable question.

View attachment 65445

Here's the trade using the PFF value chart:

Rams got: 39th pick: 510 points.

Rams gave up: 52 (380 points), 5th rounder this year (30 points) and a 2nd next year (to discount it, assumes it's the final pick in the THIRD round), that's 100 points.

Received: 510
Paid: 680
Overpaid 170

Overpaying by 170 is the equivalent of throwing in an *extra* third round pick over and above an equal deal.

If they'd have given next year's third (assume final pick in round 3) instead of their second, they've have given up 380+30+100, making it a very even deal.

Draft Pick Trade Value Chart | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Draft Pick Trade Value Chart

www.pro-football-reference.com

 

[Allen2McVay]

Here's the trade using the PFF value chart:

Rams got: 39th pick 510 points.

Rams gave up: 52 (380 points), 5th rounder this year (30 points) and a 2nd next year (assuming it's the final pick in the draft to discount it), which is 270.

Received: 510
Paid: 680
Overpaid 170

Overpaying by 170 is the equivalent of throwing in an *extra* third round pick over and above an equal deal.

If they'd have given next year's third (assume final pick in round 3) instead of their second, they've have given up 380+30+100, making it a very even deal.

Draft Pick Trade Value Chart | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Draft Pick Trade Value Chart

www.pro-football-reference.com

I don't think you are being realistic or objective here.

Instead, you are leaning on Draft Value Charts as the lone authority, while experienced NFL executives in Atlanta, Arizona, Los Angeles and Carolina are not.

My guess is that you could beat these NFL executives in Madden 2024 but that's about it.

Enjoy Day 3!

 

[JYB]

Five minutes before the Rams/Panthers trade, Atlanta moved-up in a deal with Arizona.

Atlanta moved-up 8 spots (43-to-35) and gave-up a 3rd round pick this year (#79). Atlanta also got back a 6th.

The Rams moved-up 13 spots (52-to-39). Their 3rd round pick this year (#83) would NOT have been enough.
How could you possibly think the Rams 3rd round pick NEXT YEAR would have 'gotten the trade done'?.

You asked me to put together an example and then complain I'm using draft value charts?! lol

I don't know why you're arguing the point -- every single outside uninterested observer says we overpaid. The PFF guys have no dog in this fight and they were shocked at the price -- are they delusional?

Ok, this will be my final word on the matter. The horse is dead, my Ram brother -- I've killed it.

Now let's hope les keeps killin it with his picks, because I do love the guys he's drafted (outside of the safety, who the PFF guys say is a very poor tackler).

 

[Memphis Ram]

Here's the trade using the PFF value chart:

Rams got: 39th pick: 510 points.

Rams gave up: 52 (380 points), 5th rounder this year (30 points) and a 2nd next year (assuming it's the final pick in the draft to discount it), which is 270.

Received: 510
Paid: 680
Overpaid 170

Overpaying by 170 is the equivalent of throwing in an *extra* third round pick over and above an equal deal.

If they'd have given next year's third (assume final pick in round 3) instead of their second, they've have given up 380+30+100, making it a very even deal.

Draft Pick Trade Value Chart | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Draft Pick Trade Value Chart

www.pro-football-reference.com

Again, a 2025 2nd rounder is only valued as a 2024 3rd rounder today. NFL teams have been using this adjustment no matter the trade chart used for decades.

Doesn't it make sense that a 2nd rounder in 2025 isn't as valuable as a 2nd rounder that can be used NOW?

 

[JYB]

Again, a 2025 2nd rounder is only valued as a 2024 3rd rounder today. NFL teams have been using this adjustment no matter the trade chart used for decades.

Doesn't it make sense that a 2nd rounder in 2025 isn't as valuable as a 2nd rounder that can be used NOW?

Sorry -- I misspoke above: I gave the value of next year's second round pick the value of the *final* pick in the *THIRD* round in next year's draft. Thus, it is heavily discounted. (The final pick in the second round is worth 270; final pick of third round is 100.)

Nevertheless, love the aggressiveness of this bunch.

 

[WestCoastRam]

It sure sounds like Fiske was Rams top target on day 2. If so, feel better about the trade. Liked the pick regardless prior.

 

[Memphis Ram]

Sorry -- I misspoke above: I gave the value of next year's second round pick the value of the *final* pick of the *THIRD* round in next year's draft to come up with those 100 points. Thus, it is very, very heavily discounted. (The final pick in the second round is worth 270; final pick of third round is 100.)

And even by discounting the second round pick as the equivalent of the LAST PICK in the THIRD ROUND (100 points), we still *overpaid* by the equivalent of a third this year.

Using the trade chart you provided

380 pts. = #52
29 pts. = #155
190 pts. = 2025 2nd equivalent to 2024 3rd rounder in middle of round
Total 599 pts.

510 pts. = #39 from Panthers

599 - 510 = 89 pts which equals a high 4th rounder.

Yes. They over paid via trade chart standards. But it's not as bad as you believe and it still takes two teams to tango. If they didn't overpay, they might not have been able to get their guy.

 

[JYB]

Using the trade chart you provided

380 pts. = #52
29 pts. = #155
190 pts. = 2025 2nd equivalent to 2024 3rd rounder in middle of round
Total 599 pts.

510 pts. = #39 from Panthers

599 - 510 = 89 pts which equals a high 4th rounder.

Yes. They over paid via trade chart standards. But it's not as bad as you believe and it still takes two teams to tango.

I hear ya, my Ram brother. Love Les and love what they're doing, so I'm gonna keep my eye on the big picture and on that front, I love what I see.