Rams Looking hard at DeVante Parker?

[Corbin]

I'd rather trade up and get cooper tbh

 

[Memphis Ram]

I'd rather trade up and get cooper tbh

I'd rather improve my odds of success and take a chance that I'd find 2-3 good players that spend what it would take to move up for one Cooper.

IMO, you trade up for someone like Calvin Johnson. Not Amari Cooper when other quality WRs are still on the board. Along those lines, I bet the Bills now wish they held firm and simply selected Odell Beckham instead of trading up for Sammy Watkins.

 

[WestCoastRam]

People are starting to mock Devante to Rams. PFT just did it.

 

[WestCoastRam]

I have no problem picking Devante at 10 if he's a better prospect than the olinemen there... and it's sounding like from the talking heads that he is.

 

[jrry32]

I'd rather improve my odds of success and take a chance that I'd find 2-3 good players that spend what it would take to move up for one Cooper.

IMO, you trade up for someone like Calvin Johnson. Not Amari Cooper when other quality WRs are still on the board. Along those lines, I bet the Bills now wish they held firm and simply selected Odell Beckham instead of trading up for Sammy Watkins.

Cooper's talent level isn't the thing that would deter me from trading up for him. He's going to be a star.

 

[Memphis Ram]

Cooper's talent level isn't the thing that would deter me from trading up for him. He's going to be a star.

Lost me here.

 

[jrry32]

Lost me here.

I think Cooper's talent is on par with A.J. Green. It's not his talent that would stop me from trading up. He's an elite prospect and arguably the best football player in this class. There are three things that would deter me from trading up:
1. My valuation of the WR position
2. The talent and depth in this WR class
3. Our needs at other positions

It's mainly a combination of #1 and #3. I don't value the WR position enough to want to give up multiple premium picks with our roster not being a WR away.

But if we were more or less a WR away...yea, count me in. Because Cooper is that good.

 

[dieterbrock]

Love Parker, but wouldn't take him over Cooper, White?? Hmmmmm

 

[blackbart]

I hope they are taking a hard look at everyone they are considering, what's the difference in a hard look and just a casual look?

I would not take a guy at 10 who has not been healthy there is too much other talent available at that spot.

 

[Corbin]

I'd rather improve my odds of success and take a chance that I'd find 2-3 good players that spend what it would take to move up for one Cooper.

IMO, you trade up for someone like Calvin Johnson. Not Amari Cooper when other quality WRs are still on the board. Along those lines, I bet the Bills now wish they held firm and simply selected Odell Beckham instead of trading up for Sammy Watkins.

I think Cooper's talent is on par with A.J. Green. It's not his talent that would stop me from trading up. He's an elite prospect and arguably the best football player in this class. There are three things that would deter me from trading up:
1. My valuation of the WR position
2. The talent and depth in this WR class
3. Our needs at other positions

It's mainly a combination of #1 and #3. I don't value the WR position enough to want to give up multiple premium picks with our roster not being a WR away.

But if we were more or less a WR away...yea, count me in. Because Cooper is that good.

My views exactly jrry, I'm not saying Cooper is Calvin Johnson but if he is Isaac Bruce like I take him without looking back. Transcendent players are hard to find and it's not that far up to move up to get Cooper if the raiders don't take him which I'm thinking they are taking White anyways.

With all that being said I would rather move back and pick up a 2nd or 3rd rounder and build our line with legit talent. I'm very excited that we are only 17 days away to find out the way Snisher works things out to put us in a position to speed past the number 1 spot.

 

[BonifayRam]

This well known draft site listed below has WR Breshad Perriman rated the same as WR DeVante Parker.
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2015/track...n/dt-by-grade-input:2/dt-by-position-input:wr

Snead may be putting this info in the minds of many GM's that are looking real hard at wide outs. Minn Vikings, Cleveland Browns, Miami Dolphins & even the Baltimore Ravens could be looking hard at Parker too. It could be that Snead would sure not look for too much from the Vikings or Browns or Dolphins to move down one or two or even three spots.

 

[Memphis Ram]

I think Cooper's talent is on par with A.J. Green. It's not his talent that would stop me from trading up. He's an elite prospect and arguably the best football player in this class. There are three things that would deter me from trading up:
1. My valuation of the WR position
2. The talent and depth in this WR class
3. Our needs at other positions

It's mainly a combination of #1 and #3. I don't value the WR position enough to want to give up multiple premium picks with our roster not being a WR away.

But if we were more or less a WR away...yea, count me in. Because Cooper is that good.

Oh. Well I'll add his talent to your list. He's not a once in a generation matchup nighmare type like Calvin Johnson, thus I wouldn't trade up for him.

 

[jrry32]

Oh. Well I'll add his talent to your list. He's not a once in a generation matchup nighmare type like Calvin Johnson, thus I wouldn't trade up for him.

Should that really matter though? Neither was Torry Holt or Marvin Harrison but both guys were arguably just as good or better than Calvin.

 

[Memento]

Should that really matter though? Neither was Torry Holt or Marvin Harrison but both guys were arguably just as good or better than Calvin.

Bruce was definitely better than Megatron is. Fitzgerald has been more consistent than Megatron as well. I'd trade up for another Ike or a faster Fitzgerald easily.

 

[Memphis Ram]

Should that really matter though? Neither was Torry Holt or Marvin Harrison but both guys were arguably just as good or better than Calvin.

Both were very good WRs, but neither provided even close to the matchup problem Calvin Johnson has over the years. Calvin Johnson can be open even when he's covered. And he also hadn't enjoyed playing a good portion of his career with anyone close to Bruce and Wayne opposite him either.

 

[Mr. Walker]

Bruce was definitely better than Megatron is. Fitzgerald has been more consistent than Megatron as well. I'd trade up for another Ike or a faster Fitzgerald easily.

I love Bruce as much as the next rams fan, but I disagree with this. When Megatron retires he's going to go down as the #2 or #3 greatest wr of all time.

 

[jrry32]

I love Bruce as much as the next rams fan, but I disagree with this. When Megatron retires he's going to go down as the #2 or #3 greatest wr of all time.

Calvin certainly hasn't proven himself deserving of that lofty praise. He has not reached that level. He hasn't surpassed the Holt, Harrison, etc. tier...much less surpassed Randy Moss and Terrell Owens.

Both were very good WRs, but neither provided even close to the matchup problem Calvin Johnson has over the years. Calvin Johnson can be open even when he's covered. And he also hadn't enjoyed playing a good portion of his career with anyone close to Bruce and Wayne opposite him either.

That's bologna. You don't have to be 6'5" 240 to be a "match-up problem". Torching the CB you line up against week after week because of your mastery of route running and the nuances of the game as well as your speed/quickness makes you just as much of a match-up problem.

Anyone really want to tell me that Antonio Brown wasn't as much of a match-up problem last year as DeMaryius Thomas because Brown is smaller? How about Odell Beckham Jr. vs. Mike Evans?

Calvin Johnson "can" be open when he's covered. Sure. He'll make contested catches. And that's great. But he doesn't make them 100% of the time. But you know who actually got open more often...Torry Holt and Marvin Harrison.

And you're right, he hasn't. Which means that he didn't have another legitimate WR eating into his production while playing for a Lions team that threw the ball 600+ times a year. In fact, Marvin Harrison's 4 year stretch of dominance (1999-2002) came prior to Reggie Wayne establishing himself in the NFL (Wayne was drafted in 2001 and didn't have his first 1000 yard season until 2004).

 

[Athos]

Calvin Johnson "can" be open when he's covered. Sure. He'll make contested catches. And that's great. But he doesn't make them 100% of the time. But you know who actually got open more often...Torry Holt and Marvin Harrison.

How many guys were covering Holt and Harrison though? Megatron routinely has 2 and 3 man coverages rolled his way and comes up with a reception unlike anyone in the NFL can. Past or present imo.

And you're right, he hasn't. Which means that he didn't have another legitimate WR eating into his production while playing for a Lions team that threw the ball 600+ times a year

Using that, he didn't have another WR rolling away coverage more, opening him up for cleaner receptions.

 

[Memphis Ram]

That's bologna. You don't have to be 6'5" 240 to be a "match-up problem". Torching the CB you line up against week after week because of your mastery of route running and the nuances of the game as well as your speed/quickness makes you just as much of a match-up problem.

Anyone really want to tell me that Antonio Brown wasn't as much of a match-up problem last year as DeMaryius Thomas because Brown is smaller? How about Odell Beckham Jr. vs. Mike Evans?

Calvin Johnson "can" be open when he's covered. Sure. He'll make contested catches. And that's great. But he doesn't make them 100% of the time. But you know who actually got open more often...Torry Holt and Marvin Harrison.

And you're right, he hasn't. Which means that he didn't have another legitimate WR eating into his production while playing for a Lions team that threw the ball 600+ times a year. In fact, Marvin Harrison's 4 year stretch of dominance (1999-2002) came prior to Reggie Wayne establishing himself in the NFL (Wayne was drafted in 2001 and didn't have his first 1000 yard season until 2004).

What's actually bologna is your response. No one said you have to be 6'5" 240 to be a "match-up problem." However, there are different types of "match-up problems" and one with his size, speed, and wingspan is and has been a nightmare for opposing defenses. And that player doesn't have to be moved around in order to create favorable match-up issues for the offense. I've seen Calvin Johnson triple covered in games, but I've never seen that of Holt or Harrison. Which might explain why you believe that Harrison and Holt got open more often (not to mentioned the quality of QB throwing to these guys), huh?

 

[CGI_Ram]

That's bologna.

What's actually bologna is your response.

Guys. I think there is enough mutual respect that toning it down would be nice for the rest of us readers.

 

[jrry32]

What's actually bologna is your response. No one said you have to be 6'5" 240 to be a "match-up problem." However, there are different types of "match-up problems" and one with his size, speed, and wingspan is and has been a nightmare for opposing defenses. And that player doesn't have to be moved around in order to create favorable match-up issues for the offense. I've seen Calvin Johnson triple covered in games, but I've never seen that of Holt or Harrison. Which might explain why you believe that Harrison and Holt got open more often (not to mentioned the quality of QB throwing to these guys), huh?

Holt and Harrison didn't have to be moved around either to create favorable match-ups. As for them being double covered or triple covered, you're mistaken if you think they never had saw extra coverage.

Were they triple covered? I have no idea. But I highly doubt NFL DCs were content with letting them do whatever they wanted.

From 1999 to 2002, Marvin Harrison averaged 117 catches, 1580 yards, and 13 TDs per year. The next best receivers/TEs on those offenses were...
1999
Terrence Wilkins WR - 565 yards and 4 TDs
Ken Dilger TE - 479 yards and 2 TDs
Marcus Pollard TE - 374 yards and 4 TDs

2000
Jerome Pathon WR - 646 yards and 3 TDs
Terrence Wilkins WR - 569 yards and 3 TDs
Ken Dilger TE - 538 yards and 3 TDs

2001
Marcus Pollard TE - 739 yards and 8 TDs
Reggie Wayne WR - 345 yards and 0 TD
Ken Dilger TE - 343 yards and 1 TD

2002
Reggie Wayne WR - 716 yards and 4 TDs
Marcus Pollard TE - 478 yards and 6 TDs
Qadry Ismail WR - 463 yards and 3 TDs

So Marvin Harrison was at his absolute best in terms of production when he didn't have a top tier secondary target producing. But wait...how? I thought having a great #2 WR caused the #1 WR to get better opportunities and not double covered and thus be more productive?

And I'm sure NFL DCs never thought about rolling coverage towards Marvin Harrison when Jerome Pathon was their #2 WR...and yet he still produced at a ridiculously high level.

Nah. Holt and Harrison got open more often because they were incredible route runners with elite movement skills that knew how to attack and beat the man they lined up against on a play by play basis.

Calvin Johnson is undoubtedly an elite WR. He's undoubtedly a HOFer. He's undoubtedly a match-up problem. But he cannot separate with his routes in the way that guys like Harrison and Holt did. He can't run every route at a high level like Holt and Harrison did. Johnson can do amazing things but I don't know why people always ignore substance for flash. Yes, Calvin will make some amazing plays on jump balls...but at the end of the game, it doesn't matter how you win as long as you are winning. By that I mean, it doesn't matter if you win with route running or jump ball dominance...at the end of the game, 7 catches for 120 yards and a TD is 7 catches for 120 yards and a TD no matter how you did it.

And to finally address your point on triple coverage, might teams have chosen not to triple cover guys like Holt and Harrison because it wasn't a good way to defend them? With a guy like Johnson who is a major deep and jump ball threat, it makes sense to throw more bodies at him. But putting three guys on a player that is an amazing route runner doesn't make much sense. It's wasting defenders because having more bodies on a guy isn't going to stop him from running an incredible route. Which begs the question...if Harrison and Holt were that good in their primes, did teams not just choose to defend them in other ways they saw as more effective?

How many guys were covering Holt and Harrison though? Megatron routinely has 2 and 3 man coverages rolled his way and comes up with a reception unlike anyone in the NFL can. Past or present imo.


Using that, he didn't have another WR rolling away coverage more, opening him up for cleaner receptions.

No, he doesn't.

And as I just pointed out to Memphis, have you considered that teams roll coverage over the top of Johnson because that is an effective way of defending his skill-set? Do you think simply rolling coverage over the top of an elite route runner is an effective way of defending their skill-set?

He also didn't have another WR eating into his targets. As I just pointed out, Marvin Harrison was more productive without a legitimate top tier #2 than he was with one. When you're that good, you're going to do damage if you get enough looks. Another mouth to feed in the offense takes away looks.

To make an analogy to another sport, look at Kevin Love's production with the Timberwolves and with the Cavaliers. On the Cavaliers, he has a lot more talent around him and less defensive attention. Yet, he's scoring almost 10 less points per game.