Quick spin through the WR & TE roster

[Merlin]

If they keep 5 it's because another position puts up depth quality that trumps the 6th wideout. But at this point it's hard to imagine that happening. RB would need a surprise like Colburn and OL would need someone like Kaskey, Brewer, etc, and so on to squeeze that last receiver out.

But I'm confident the strength of the bottom of the wideout roster is going to protect itself and we'll see them keep 6.

 

[snackdaddy]

It ain't easy to have 3 receivers playing at pro bowl levels, even if they weren't actually picked for the pro bowl. We have 3 plenty good enough to be pro bowlers. We gotta enjoy it while we can. And we have at least two more years with them. Not to mention a 4th who could probably start for several teams.

 

[Merlin]

I don't disagree @flv wrt the depth being able to step up. I do think JRey is a better WR4 than most teams have but when you look at the Rams' offense as a whole from the way they scheme things up and execute their dependence on 11 personnel makes them easier for a guy like Belichick to solve for one big game.

McVay has gone back and worked those weaknesses BB exposed in his scheme this offseason and camp. But the truth is they've been missing that extra dimension the TE position provides, and the diversity it brings when it comes to putting out enough matchup problems to where a guy like Belichick can't remove the top two things you do well and then cruise to a win.

So your point with 10 personnel is interesting to me in that the offense is undoubtedly more dangerous than with 12. But I also think the conversation goes a bit deeper here too, with the run game as the answer to teams preparing to load up nickel and dime looks with heavy zone to counter what McVay does...

The run game, IMO, is what McVay is going to turn to. More balance, which is going to keep the better DCs honest come playoff time. And to that point they have added a second RB who can take it inside or out and bust big gainers like Gurley, effectively ensuring that they'll have the guy who will allow them to sustain that counterbalance to the passing game even if TG's knee flares up.

 

[Merlin]

Yeah of course we both like the wideout group I am with you there and I do think 10 personnel should be part of the overall package vs a guy like Belichick where you want to be as varied as possible with new plays to counter how good he is. And re: what he did he also boiled down the schemes that had given us probs like blowing up the A gaps like the Bears did or snuffing out our screen game like the Lions did. His DBs were sitting on routes too, outside of their pre and post-snap alignment, which speaks to the prep his teams always have.

We're in agreement on running the ball. McVay's weakness (all coaches have them to a greater or lesser degree) is definitely that he tends to abandon the run, which is common with the best passing game minds. And I think we have the tools to do that as you alluded to. I cannot wait to see Henderson mixing it up in there subbing for Gurley, let alone lining up in some 21 here and there gonna be fun.

I'll be surprised if we don't see more varied personnel group percentages this season. My prediction is the 11 personnel usage will drop at least 10%.

 

[oldnotdead]

TE stats don't reflect the quality of play or the talent of the TE's. McVay's offense hasn't really focused upon the TE position. When you have 3 WR's capable of ringing up 1,000 yds each + good receiving RB's there simply isn't enough balls to go around to get a 1,000 yd receiving TE. That's not to say Higbee or Everett couldn't in a different offense.

Truth be told, McVay is going to continue to evolve and expand this offense. This year with the addition of Henderson I think we will see an expansion that includes more passes to the RB's and TE's. The threat level of the WR's is a known quantity now. So expanding the role of the RB's and TE's is a natural way for McVay to go.

Here's something most people don't think about. Why 11 personnel? Because it gives you 5 potential receivers, but most of all it forces the D to play nickel packages and still stay in man coverage. You want the defense is man coverage if you are going to run. To play the nickel, defenses will take a LB or sometimes their NT off the field. With the secondary playing with their backs to the LOS it makes the defense vulnerable to the inside zone run. If the secondary plays zone coverage you pass. The jet sweep motion will tip zone or man coverage, so Goff knows what he's facing in terms of the secondary.

The lack of emphasis on the TE IMO will change this year. We all saw what Everett is capable of last year. I'm also not concerned about Hodge who will be an exclusive rights FA next year. He is still controlled by the team who just needs to tender an appropriate offer. Also watching Alex Bachman I'm even higher on him. He needs to polish his route running but the kid has talent and potential. I like the way he plays to his speed, with good hands. They shouldn't let this kid slip away. If they keep 6 WR's he would be my choice.

 

[Merlin]

TE stats don't reflect the quality of play or the talent of the TE's. McVay's offense hasn't really focused upon the TE position. When you have 3 WR's capable of ringing up 1,000 yds each + good receiving RB's there simply isn't enough balls to go around to get a 1,000 yd receiving TE. That's not to say Higbee or Everett couldn't in a different offense.

Disagree.

First, his offense has demonstrated the featuring of the tight end position in Washington. Secondly, the WCO is historically THE most TE friendly offensive scheme. And third, stats reflect competitive nature of the roster and whether guys are good enough to get said snaps. To date, there is a reason our TEs have suffered in comparison to the WRs and it's not because McVay is disinterested in featuring the position, it is because they have not been good enough to be featured.

Higs has seen a ton of snaps as the TE in 11 personnel but his hands have always been suspect and as a result he is typically a third or later read in most plays. McVay is not Fisher. He isn't going to elevate a player's importance to the offense unless they deserve it. And he won't do that this year either unless the trust is there. Good thing here is that Higs has had a very strong camp, so that might happen.

Everett's development has played a large part in the lack of 12 personnel sets, but thus far in this year's camp he looks like he's ready to push for more snaps which means this might be the season we see an increase in two TE looks. His hands are much more consistent than those of Higs (Higs still traps the ball against his chest even on a pass he caught the other day for a big play that almost bounced out of his arms) so if he can get on the field he'll probably be put into the pattern and function as an earlier read than Higs on most passing plays.

Adding a TE to this offense who can run a good option route even just off a stick would be huge for Goff. It is extremely difficult to stop a well-executed option route with a good TE. Not to mention how easy it is for DBs and LBs to disregard the TE on delayed releases with them selling a block action. Here's hoping we see more of that stuff this year.

 

[LA_Rams_#29]

Josh Reynolds would be the New York Giants best WR right today...

 

[Merlin]

Josh Reynolds would be the New York Giants best WR right today...

No doubt, but I think he's too valuable to trade given that Kupp going down is such a recent memory for them. I think Kupp is the guy they'll lock up, but if he can't make it through the full season again then it might be JRey they sign.

I have to think if Thomas goes off in preseason games with Bortles passing to him that he'll be trade bait. And maybe Bortles too if he also shows extremely well and some team makes a really good offer for him.

 

[Akrasian]

And maybe Bortles too if he also shows extremely well and some team makes a really good offer for him.

It would have to be an amazing offer for him, since the Rams don't have any backup QB with game experience on the roster, and Bortles is cheap, and in that scenario would likely fetch a decent comp pick when he leaves the Rams.

 

[LA_Rams_#29]

No doubt, but I think he's too valuable to trade given that Kupp going down is such a recent memory for them. I think Kupp is the guy they'll lock up, but if he can't make it through the full season again then it might be JRey they sign.

I have to think if Thomas goes off in preseason games with Bortles passing to him that he'll be trade bait. And maybe Bortles too if he also shows extremely well and some team makes a really good offer for him.

Reynolds is way to valuable to trade... we need him...injuries happen..and honestly in a couple of years ...moving on from Rob or Cooks and going with Josh at that spot would be really cost effective for us...

drafting guys that turn into players is so valuable and we've been doing really well with that recently

 

[oldnotdead]

Both Higbee and Everett showed that they are both quality TE's. But since they are in an offense where 11 personal is the base, they are used in rotation. The slot receiver runs the Y receiver tree. It's the same route tree run by the TE's. Who gets the majority of the attention by Goff? It's because the slot receiver is usually higher in the progression. That said both Higbee and Everett have shown that defenses who take them lightly do so at their peril. Everett's tight rope scamper down the side line for a crucial TD was a thing of beauty.

Goff is still a young QB who has elite talent, but he's also still developing. It's common for a young QB to be slower in his reads. More veteran QB's like Rivers and Brees, know pre-snap where they are going with the ball because of their ability to read defenses. This is exactly what they have been focusing upon with Goff this year. Goff needs to correctly read the coverages and let that set his progression order. That's why Goff tends to hold the ball too long. Knowing where he's going with the ball pre-snap is key to being able to getting the ball out quickly.

It's very clear that McVay's offensive scheme sets Goff's reads with his first reads being his wide and slot receiver being high on his progression. During Antonio Gate's hayday he was on many plays the #1 receiver in the progression. The same was true for Tony Gonzales in KC. IMO the ceiling for Everett is very high and he is only now coming into his own. I feel that expansion of the passing game focus to be more inclusive of both the TE and RB positions is a natural progress for McVay's offense. I can easily see both WR's going deep with the TE running a mid-range Y route, with the RB running a delayed drag or short slant being the primary receiver. That can be run with 12 personnel with the delayed short route run by the second TE after coming off a block.

Bottom line is that with Henderson and the emergence of Everett this offense is even more dangerous than last year. IMO that is more important overall than worrying about a TE getting 1,000 yds.

 

[FrantikRam]

Any player who is good enough will be featured enough to put up good stats. I have a lot of respect for Higs and what he does as an all-around TE. But he's not a difference maker, or hasn't been that, so he doesn't get play design where he's high enough as a read to get those stats.

Stick a younger Gronk or one of the current top TEs around the league on this roster and you can bet they'd be a top read in many situations, and high enough that they're gonna get catches and yards.

I'm really excited about the TEs this year btw. But the point of my post is really the business side, a look at the roster and the decisions that are looming and might be made sooner than later. Both positions have a lot of decisions looming, even though wideout is absolutely loaded.

If we're talking about the top TEs, sure. There is only three of them that would get heavily targeted in this offense:

Ertz
Kittle
Kelce

But getting a TE of that ability is not remotely realistic, and I would argue unnecessary - our WRs/RBs are much better than the Niners, Chiefs and Eagles as a group.

There's those guys, and then pretty much everyone else. For me, Higbee and Everett are right there with everyone else. Jared Cook put up more numbers last year, but I doubt anyone would have him (again) over our guys.

I would definitely look to extend Higbee - assuming we can for around $5 million per year.

Outside of those three, I don't see any TE getting heavily targeted with our WRs and RBs.

 

[Merlin]

Outside of those three, I don't see any TE getting heavily targeted with our WRs and RBs.

We're not just talking about heavy targeting, that's an oversimplification. There have been two probs with our TE group...

1. Our starting TE (Higbee) has been an afterthought as a pass catcher. This isn't just because of the quality of our WR group. His hands have always been suspect, and due to that he's not going to be an early read type which is fine. But he's also not going to be a situational early read (i.e. some of the common TE type situations like down/distance/redzone) as often as TEs with better hands and it shows in his yearly stats. He is a good blocker, and useful as a surprise type receiving option at his current level of development, although that might change a bit if he continues to show like he has thus far in camp/preseason.

2. Our TE2 (Everett) has been developing for the past couple years and hasn't been good enough to allow for 12 personnel usage. Last year we were hoping would be the year he arrived but he wasn't ready. He made some plays, and has improved a lot as a blocker particularly in space. But he's been pedestrian at best.

If you take each of them for what they do and compare them against the league neither are anything special. Both could be replaced and upgraded easily. Neither are among the top ten of their peers, far from it.

IMO people need to take off the rose colored glasses with our TEs. Only thing we can claim from them to date is that they have more talent than most other teams' TEs but that is a difficult argument to define. I mean Everett for example isn't a huge target, has good hands but not rare, and is fast but not a game-breaking threat, really what makes him special is his natural RAC talent.

As I keep saying though, I hope all that changes this year. If these two guys keep doing what they're doing we'll see more 12 sets and they'll collectively see their stats rise as the Rams' offense will be more diverse and difficult to stop because of it.

 

[FrantikRam]

We're not just talking about heavy targeting, that's an oversimplification. There have been two probs with our TE group...

1. Our starting TE (Higbee) has been an afterthought as a pass catcher. This isn't just because of the quality of our WR group. His hands have always been suspect, and due to that he's not going to be an early read type which is fine. But he's also not going to be a situational early read (i.e. some of the common TE type situations like down/distance/redzone) as often as TEs with better hands and it shows in his yearly stats. He is a good blocker, and useful as a surprise type receiving option at his current level of development, although that might change a bit if he continues to show like he has thus far in camp/preseason.

2. Our TE2 (Everett) has been developing for the past couple years and hasn't been good enough to allow for 12 personnel usage. Last year we were hoping would be the year he arrived but he wasn't ready. He made some plays, and has improved a lot as a blocker particularly in space. But he's been pedestrian at best.

If you take each of them for what they do and compare them against the league neither are anything special. Both could be replaced and upgraded easily. Neither are among the top ten of their peers, far from it.

IMO people need to take off the rose colored glasses with our TEs. Only thing we can claim from them to date is that they have more talent than most other teams' TEs but that is a difficult argument to define. I mean Everett for example isn't a huge target, has good hands but not rare, and is fast but not a game-breaking threat, really what makes him special is his natural RAC talent.

As I keep saying though, I hope all that changes this year. If these two guys keep doing what they're doing we'll see more 12 sets and they'll collectively see their stats rise as the Rams' offense will be more diverse and difficult to stop because of it.

For me it's not rose colored glasses - it's an understanding that there's only one football. No TE (save for Kittle, Ertz or Kelce) is getting more targets or more production than Higbee and Everett in this offense.

We have three or four starting caliber WRs and a top pass catching RB - fifth option is the ceiling for our TE group, and if we looked team by team at the fifth most targeted player, I'd bet they are better than what most teams have.

Last year they didn't drop passes, made some great catches, and Everett had arguably our two biggest plays of the entire season.

 

[Merlin]

Last year they didn't drop passes, made some great catches, and Everett had arguably our two biggest plays of the entire season.

If you're happy with that then congrats.

 

[FrantikRam]

If you're happy with that then congrats.

I think we all should be - it was good enough for a trip to the Super Bowl, and our TEs were not the reason we lost it.

 

[Merlin]

I think we all should be - it was good enough for a trip to the Super Bowl, and our TEs were not the reason we lost it.

Being happy with the Super Bowl and seeing our TE position as an area this roster can improve are not mutually exclusive concepts.

But anyway. You and I are not gonna see this the same way and that's fine. Cheers.